Wet ground Hunting with ACE 250?

[infiniteMPG]

Have not had my ACE 250 out for a while and still have been wanting to play more with the my 8-1/2"X11" DD coil. Read some posts about strapping the coil cable securely around the connection tube or it can give false readings when it wiggled around, put some ti-wraps to good use and was itching to try it out. A co-worked asked if I could help him locate some MIA irrigation valve boxes on his property. Here in west central Florida we're feet over normal rainfall and the last several days we were dumped on more.

He has very thick sod and when I tried to use my 250 I was getting pings all over the place with metals registering from iron to silver and everything in between. I'd get a strong signal, swing around again and get nothing. Some times when I bent down to probe for a box I'd hold my 250 upside down, coil in the air, and I'd get pings. Was hoping to trace the wires but that proved impossible. Tried "learning" the pings of a known box but since most of the parts of the valve are plastic it wasn't a well defined signal. Tried narrowing down the discrimination but that wasn't much help either.

We'd run the sprinklers to see what order they popped to try to narrow down what zone the valve needed to be near so the coil was continually wet, too. Got one strong solid ping I dug for and found a crushed aluminum soda can end so at least I confirmed that when I did get a repeatable signal there WAS something there. And we did manage to locate one box so wasn't for nothing.

Question is why was I getting sooooo many false readings? He irrigates with well water and was thinking maybe mineral content was throwing it off, or maybe just the super saturated ground. This was my issue on previous hunts with the 250, swing it along and get a loud ping, return to the spot and get nothing. Seemed to be chasing ghosts.

Hints, suggestions and words of advice all welcomed as I want to be happy with the 250 and the new coil but also want to know that a signal is something and not just a random sound that occasionally will repeat.

 

[Rammjäger]

My Ace250 doesn't like wet ground too. I get false signals when swinging
over wet ground. In normal conditions everything works fine though .
The Ace is a very sensitive machine and I like it as it is.
Only help I guess, when ground wet ,is lower discrimination -
2 or 3 bars instead of the normal 4 bars.
I hope this helps you.
HH
Ramm

 

[infiniteMPG]

Had tightened the discrimination and lower the sensitivity to the minimum I could and still pick up anything, helped but still got false signals constantly. Thing that bugged me the most was when I raised the coil up in the air where it was 4-5 feet above the ground facing up and I'd get pings! HUH?!?!?! Saw the coil was wet from running across the grass and the coil cable is secured to the post so not sure what it was picking up. It was humid but don't see how humid air can give false readings, but I could lower and raise it again and randomly get a ping.

 

[robby4570]

Sounds like EMI of some sort OR possibly a bad coil... Try the stock coil back on the machine after a RESET (press and hold power button) to see if it settles down, if not then go to a couple different places around town. Also make sure you have good batteries...

 

[musicnut1986]

Disappearing signals, in my limited experience. happen when over rusty iron objects while running fairly high discrimination. When you get a disappearing signal try dropping your discrimination to zero and see if you get iron tones. Getting a signal with your coil 4-5 feet off of the ground? Sounds like electrical interference. I've never used an Ace 250 but I'll bet a search here will turn up suggestions of how to deal with this on your machine.

 

[Rammjäger]

I would also say , in case you are using a coil protection ,check it for
possible tiny metallic or mineral particles .
I happened to me often.In some spots there are buried metal wire fences -
that also make the detector go crazy

 

[infiniteMPG]

All good suggestions, I'll try them this evening. The batteries were brand new so that shouldn't be an issue. There were power lines directly overhead so EMI could of been an issue. Not sure how to test if it's a bad coil. I can put the stock coil back on and see if they act similar in similar conditions or if the larger coil gives tons more false pings. Quick question, if I have a coil on, coil cable mounted tight, and I swing it around over my head outside clear of anything should I "ever" get a ping?

Almost hoping it's a bad coil to explain all the mystery pings, have been tempted to break out my old GroundHog and start using that again

 

[Rammjäger]

All good suggestions, I'll try them this evening. The batteries were brand new so that shouldn't be an issue. There were power lines directly overhead so EMI could of been an issue. Not sure how to test if it's a bad coil. I can put the stock coil back on and see if they act similar in similar conditions or if the larger coil gives tons more false pings. Quick question, if I have a coil on, coil cable mounted tight, and I swing it around over my head outside clear of anything should I "ever" get a ping?

Almost hoping it's a bad coil to explain all the mystery pings, have been tempted to break out my old GroundHog and start using that again

Since I purchased a DD coil for my ACE250 I have never had an issue with it.
It handles much more stable and deeper than with the stock coil.
Maybe your new coil is defective .

 

[robby4570]

First off, NEVER lift your coil above your control box, ever... water could be inside the shaft and run into the control box. I had a similar issue about 6 months after getting the 8-1/2x11 DD coil, and called Garrett after the problem resolved with going back to the stock coil. They sent me a new coil immediately and it has been fine ever since.

 

[infiniteMPG]

Thanks for the replies and good point Robby, will definitely remember that and doubtful there was enough water on the coil to run anywhere. I can see that being a major issue if hunting with the coil submerged. Will check things out tonight and if there's any concerns that the new coil is flaky I'll get in touch with Garrett, want to be searching for treasures and not hunting ghosts.

 

[Ice Scratcher]

Sounds like EMI of some sort OR possibly a bad coil... Try the stock coil back on the machine after a RESET (press and hold power button) to see if it settles down, if not then go to a couple different places around town. Also make sure you have good batteries...

This^

Take it to a park or something, if EMI is the issue it should go away in a different area... The EMI could be coming from the power line, and or maybe a wireless internet router, an above ground electric fence, underground invisible fence, or underground wires to the irrigation valves, the last four you can easily turn off..

Good luck!

<°)))>{

 

[sllingshot47]

All good suggestions, I'll try them this evening. The batteries were brand new so that shouldn't be an issue. There were power lines directly overhead so EMI could of been an issue. Not sure how to test if it's a bad coil. I can put the stock coil back on and see if they act similar in similar conditions or if the larger coil gives tons more false pings. Quick question, if I have a coil on, coil cable mounted tight, and I swing it around over my head outside clear of anything should I "ever" get a ping?

Almost hoping it's a bad coil to explain all the mystery pings, have been tempted to break out my old GroundHog and start using that again

Yes! If there is EMI issues! And remember- you have a bigger 'antenna' to pick up the EMI!

 

[Sea isle Larry]

There isn't mole fencing under the turf is there. Some places in the south they put mesh down to keep burrowing to a minimum.
HH
Larry

 

[RockCore]

I have an Ace 350 and it seems to do fine in moist to wet ground. Gets really chattery in real dry ground. Also it will go off like a pinball machine close to a wireless router. Doesn't matter which way you point it.

 

[Jhkramer]

I agree with the EMI but the other thing to consider if it's a regularly irrigated lawn is that if the ground water contains alot of iron or other minerals it can make the ground heavily mineralized . if you see rust stains on sidewalks or buildings by sprinkler heads this May be the case.

 

[infiniteMPG]

Finally got a free minute to check the coil out. I found a place out in the yard, sandy area, nothing around, no power lines, nothing. Put some odds and ends on the ground, pennies, nickle, quarter, some other metal items. Took the coil off the detector post and just plugged it in. Used the stock ACE250 coil and went all around the perimeter and not a beep. Went over the items and the screen registered perfectly what everything was. Held it out from me with the cord tight so it wouldn't move relative to the coil and spun around, up and down and all around, not a beep. Went back to the metal and read perfect.

Took the stock coil off and put the DD coil back on, started to go over the metal items and it was beeping like crazy, registering all kinds of metal, raised it up about 4 feet and still was beeping, not as much but bouncing around different metals. Tried to read the metal items but was beeping so much I couldn't of told what was what. Held the coil away from me, cable tight and moved it around, beeping all over. Held it upright, sideways, honestly couldn't get it to shut up. If I held it still it would settle and get quiet, but then an occasional beep, and if I started moving again it would read all different readings, and it was 4-feet up in the air not near anything!!!

Bad coil???? And if so, this was a gift to me last Christmas and I have only used it about a dozen times. Seeing as it's ten months old this might be a tough challenge to present to Garrett.

 

[sllingshot47]

OK. One last post. If the coil came with a cover, check for metal between coil and cover. Also, see what it does at 2 bars sensitivity. If it's still noisy, it's probably the coil for sure- and I think that's the case. The only other thing I can think of is a broken connector wire- see if it's crimped anywhere and also see if there's a point where you can wiggle the wire and cause more havoc than what you're hearing now.

 

[infiniteMPG]

Got in touch with Garrett and they replied back quickly. They asked the usual questions about the cable and all but then they asked if I reset the detector when I changed coils, holding down the power button until it beeps twice. Never heard of that before so after work today I came home and put the DD coil back on the detector. Had the cable wound snug around the pipe so it couldn't wiggle around. With it powered off I held in the power button until I got the two beeps. As soon as I started walking with the coil held up high it started toning off.

Went out in the middle of the yard, away from all trees, and everything. Held the coil up in the air so it was about 7-feet up in the air. Turned holding it up and it would tone and show nickle, quiet for a second, then aluminum, then iron, then quiet for a second and it would keep bouncing between the different metals. I had sensitivity set at 5 bars (two blank bars at right of reading), turned it down to 4 bars and it was quiet in the air but the moment I got within 2-3 feet of the ground it would start pinging all different metals. Holding it up in the air I had to keep it at 4 bars or less to keep it quiet. Even put it at 5 bars and held it as still as I could 6-7 feet in the air and it would still occasionally ping, not moving it at all. Just not sure how to get this to read something specific when it's doing this kind of stuff.

As far as testing a loose wire I could do that but getting all these pings for all different things it acts like I'm trying to find a penny in a pile of junkyard scrap metal. If I have to turn it down to 4 bars to have it not read something holding it up 7 feet in the air just doesn't sound right.

 

[Ice Scratcher]

Sounds like the same yard with the same problem..

Have you tried another spot yet? Trees and the like don't matter.. EMI from a WiFi can extend well past plenty of "yards"... Holding it up in the air would only serve as a better antenna to pick it up..

<°)))>{

 

[infiniteMPG]

Not the same yard, last time was at a co-worker's house in another neighborhood. This was in my yard and have over and acre and was very far from the house, the road, the power lines, anything. Unless the EMI was stretching over 100-feet it was just plain old flaky.

Guess I'd have to ask if the DD coil can give false pings hundreds of feet from any house or building with power or Wifi, false pings anywhere near power lines, false pings trying to look in wet soil, where is there a good place to use it? I mean other than out in the middle of the woods.... on a dry day, of course.