Deep squeaks on the Equinox 800

[Beachhunt1]

The "Horseshoe" IS a Discriminate mide, simply accepting all the Disc. segments for a motion-based All Metal Accept and w/ o any rejection.

That's different from a true Threshold-based All Metal, non-Discriminating function. Using the 'Horseshoe' is simply a quick-access or shift from a Disc. mode using some amount of segment rejection to no rejection.

Monte

Jeezeee. Thanks for the text book explanation .But I am really trying to keep it simple for many reasons. REGARDLESS, the Horseshoe mode on the Equinox IS the all metal mode. There is no other all metal mode.

 

[jmaclen]

The "Horseshoe" IS a Discriminate mide, simply accepting all the Disc. segments for a motion-based All Metal Accept and w/ o any rejection.

That's different from a true Threshold-based All Metal, non-Discriminating function. Using the 'Horseshoe' is simply a quick-access or shift from a Disc. mode using some amount of segment rejection to no rejection.

Monte

The horseshoe (All Metal) button's name is misleading in Minelab's Quick Start instructions. They should have called it something like All Metals Accepted. That is how I explain it to newbies when I am training them on the Equinox. The mode does not change when the horseshoe button is pressed. All the other settings besides the preset discrimination settings are still in effect. So Park 1 is still Park 1 whether the horseshoe button is engaged or not.

 

[jmaclen]

Jeezeee. Thanks for the text book explanation .But I am really trying to keep it simple for many reasons. REGARDLESS, the Horseshoe mode on the Equinox IS the all metal mode. There is no other all metal mode.

So by your statement there is only one all metal mode. Actually there are 44 all metals accepted "modes" using your definition if you have an Equinox 800 with the latest 4 kHz update.

Like Monte correctly said, the horseshoe button is just an instant way of going from a preset pattern to all targets accepted. I can do it the long way by going into settings, and individually accepting all targets in whatever mode I am using with a hole bunch of v/x button pushes.

 

[Beachhunt1]

So by your statement there is only one all metal mode. Actually there are 44 all metals accepted "modes" using your definition if you have an Equinox 800 with the latest 4 kHz update.

Like Monte correctly said, the horseshoe button is just an instant way of going from a preset pattern to all targets accepted. I can do it the long way by going into settings, and individually accepting all targets in whatever mode I am using with a hole bunch of v/x button pushes.

Oh gee thanks X2. So much for keeping it simple!

 

[Beachhunt1]

Most likely my last post in this thread. The reason I asked IDX what mode he was in is because the Equinox does a better job on found targets in HORSESHOE ALL METAL MODE, rather than the regular discrimination mode.

Anyway here is a reliable source with a 14" dime. Take it or leave it!

https://youtu.be/it3Bs-E2AHM

 

[Martin_V3i]

Most likely my last post in this thread. The reason I asked IDX what mode he was in is because the Equinox does a better job on found targets in HORSESHOE ALL METAL MODE, rather than the regular discrimination mode.

Anyway here is a reliable source with a 14" dime. Take it or leave it!

https://youtu.be/it3Bs-E2AHM

That is some really "sweet dirt", in a cleared out and built test garden, using a 15" coil. The sand base of that soil alone gives added inches. I've always taken his videos with respect, but also with a grain of salt. Besides, weren't we discussing a live dug target?

 

[Beachhunt1]

That is some really "sweet dirt", in a cleared out and built test garden, using a 15" coil. The sand base of that soil alone gives added inches. I've always taken his videos with respect, but also with a grain of salt. Besides, weren't we discussing a live dug target?

No we were discussing if an Equinox can "see" a dime past 10 inches. /It clearly can by many sources. Now it is up to those persons to understand their detector better.

 

[Martin_V3i]

No we were discussing if an Equinox can "see" a dime past 10 inches. /It clearly can by many sources. Now it is up to those persons to understand their detector better.

Oh, sorry. I have a 9" Merc buried for about two years and my 600 and 800 can read it even using the 6" Nox coil. It struggles on super dry soil days, but I don't need the 15" coil, nor sweet sandy based soil to show it hits a coin over 10 inches. Texas clay is a bear!

I need to re-read the original post. I don't recall the definite can the Equinox hit a 10" buried coin." My bad, sorry.

 

[Redwaller]

It's entertaining how heated discussions about detector depth get. I'm sure there are always freak cases with detectors picking up coins at depths they normally shouldn't, or completely missing things they should pick up for no apparent reason. I'm neither an electrical engineer nor even someone who's done a ton of reading about all this, but I'd imagine the absolute limit of depth you can get from any detector is an extremely variable thing. The soil, detector settings, how high above the ground you swing and you yourself, all affect this. I forget where specifically I read this but I believe the detection zone of most coils is fairly pointy in shape, where the deepest part is a lot smaller of an area than it is at the top - so if you don't really overlap much when you swing you're probably missing a lot of objects that are at that deepest point. It's also not like we're all going around with tape measures and taking 3 decimal place notes about the depth of everything we find - for me anyway, I'll just tend to think "wow that was deep", and drop my pinpointer in the hole not exactly straight up and discover that it looks like it might have been 12 inches, or whatever the case may be. Personally, I don't really care about how deep my detector can go, what difference does it make? Imagine you own the fastest car in the world, just for a second. How many times are you going to get it all the way up to its top speed? And in regular use, is it all that much more fun to drive than an average sports car? And does knowing your car's exact top speed, change the way you drive it at all? Just seems a little silly to me.

 

[jmaclen]

I’ve been detecting a site in very rocky terrain that’s produced some really cool 1800’s relics, coins, and buttons. Now that I have a small area pretty much cherry picked, I’m now getting some very faint and deep reading signals on the 800. I’ve dug some of these signals to 12 plus inches until the pinpointer sounds off, but I never find metal. Question 1 is could I negate the possibility of a false equinox signal because I never got pinpointer activity until I was fairly deep? Question 2 is why do I get a more audible signal on these when I move to 20 or 40 kHz? When I get a scratchy signal, I like to experiment and detect the signal with all the signal freq’s to see what happens. I’m still pretty new to detecting and assumed that the lower frequencies would be “better” at deeper targets, but the higher frequencies seem to be hitting them more often and more repetitively.

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.


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That deep button you dug was quite a find even for just for how deep it was and for your persistence.

Rocky ground, deep squeaks (do you mean short intermittent mid to high tones?) and one of those turned out to be what looks like a brass button.

1. If you are getting pinpoint signals (what kind of pinpointer are you using?) at 12" depth, there is either a target nearby or the mineralization/soil dampness level may be setting off your pinpointer. Your button proves that there was one real target for sure. So for me, you answered your own question number 1 through experience.

2. There is a trade off here with the Equinox and its versatility as far as selectable single frequencies and its 6 (600) or 8 (800) versions of Multi IQ. From experience and from research, Park 2, Field 2 and the Gold Modes using Multi have very high frequencies in use which are higher than 20 kHz and more in the 40 kHz range. Those modes are hyper sensitive to any small targets, partially masked targets and targets on edge no matter what conductivity they have. So your using 20 and 40 kHz to enhance your deep squeaks makes total sense to me. So would hunting in Park 1 for the easier to hit targets whether they are shallow or well oriented deep targets and following up with Park 2 for the really hard to detect shallow and deep targets. So, using 4 kHz or even 10 kHz seems to be the textbook, smart way to hunt deep silver/high conductor targets with the Equinox..........that is not necessarily so since Park 2, Field 2 and the Gold modes have plenty of 20 to 40 kHz frequencies in use but they also have at least one much lower frequency (probably below 10 kHz) in use too.

 

[jmaclen]

Not calling out anyone, simply saying a dime at the depths presented are not realistic. I just want to see it because I haven’t seen it. And I want to know how that unburied and natural response sounds. That’s a massive key.
If everyone just “wants to believe” it’s not helping in anybody’s progression as a hunter, mine included.
Somebody just film the damn thing already!

I'm not calling you out either. I have heard your well founded argument and we have even gone around the block a couple of times about the Equinox and potential depth in the past. The rule of thumb is certainly that a VLF search coil will only go as deep as its diameter. That is easy to figure out with a round mono coil. It is a little more relative with a round DD since that knife edge transmit signal is so concentrated.

Your 11" dime quest is perfectly reasonable. The Equinox depth meter was calibrated to a coin sized object. I have heard (no proof) that it was calibrated to the Australian $2 coin which is about the size of the US nickel. So it makes sense that an Equinox setup optimally for the soil conditions present would be able to see an 11" deep US nickel. The US dime being smaller.......the Nox will struggle or just not hit it at all.

So, do yourself a favor. If you have a kids playground with bark, gravel or freshwater sand nearby, take a dime and bury it in a target free spot at 11", set up your Nox with 11" coil in Park 1 MULTI, ground balance it, 5 tones, with nothing discriminated, recovery speed on a conservative 5 or 6 and FE or F2 both on 0. You should get some kind of response. Since the ground is recently disturbed the response may be ugly (as in iron tones and numbers with other positive numbers in the 10 to 20 range) but you will probably get a hit. Use your pinpoint function too.

 

[PAslawslayer]

That deep button you dug was quite a find even for just for how deep it was and for your persistence.

Rocky ground, deep squeaks (do you mean short intermittent mid to high tones?) and one of those turned out to be what looks like a brass button.

1. If you are getting pinpoint signals (what kind of pinpointer are you using?) at 12" depth, there is either a target nearby or the mineralization/soil dampness level may be setting off your pinpointer. Your button proves that there was one real target for sure. So for me, you answered your own question number 1 through experience.

2. There is a trade off here with the Equinox and its versatility as far as selectable single frequencies and its 6 (600) or 8 (800) versions of Multi IQ. From experience and from research, Park 2, Field 2 and the Gold Modes using Multi have very high frequencies in use which are higher than 20 kHz and more in the 40 kHz range. Those modes are hyper sensitive to any small targets, partially masked targets and targets on edge no matter what conductivity they have. So your using 20 and 40 kHz to enhance your deep squeaks makes total sense to me. So would hunting in Park 1 for the easier to hit targets whether they are shallow or well oriented deep targets and following up with Park 2 for the really hard to detect shallow and deep targets. So, using 4 kHz or even 10 kHz seems to be the textbook, smart way to hunt deep silver/high conductor targets with the Equinox..........that is not necessarily so.

Thank you very much for understanding and directly answering my original questions. And yes, the deep squeaks are in fact those short and intermittent mid 20’s to low 30’s readings. My pinpointer is the Garrett pro pointer.

I have all my modes set to 50 tone and always have “all metal” on and FE at 0. I sweep a new area in parks 1 and 2 with mud to high recovery speed and then switch to my fields 1 and 2 which are the same except the recovery speed is 3.

Again I’m new to detecting (feb 2021) but have obsessed on learning all I can and love to experiment. That’s why I ditched the simplex in June and got the equinox.

Thank you again for your post.


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[PAslawslayer]

I’m in western PA and every place I detect is rocky, filled with small iron and aluminum, and the dirt is always mixed with old coal slag. So In my short time detecting, I’ve learned the semi repeatable signals are worth digging here. Still working on the “deep bleeps”. And I nearly pee my pants when I get a clear and repeatable (360 degrees) in this dirt.


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[jmaclen]

I’m in western PA and every place I detect is rocky, filled with small iron and aluminum, and the dirt is always mixed with old coal slag. So In my short time detecting, I’ve learned the semi repeatable signals are worth digging here. Still working on the “deep bleeps”. And I nearly pee my pants when I get a clear and repeatable (360 degrees) in this dirt.


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So, the unmistakable trend at least during this topic has been to insist on hunting with nothing discriminated/horseshoe button engaged/all metals accepted.

I get why that makes sense. I often hunt that way too. However, it does not always make sense. This is why I went into detail earlier about All Metal Mode and All Metals Accepted. Hunting with the horseshoe button engaged will not create more depth. It might slightly improve target response on iffy, borderline non-ferrous targets that are also responding with iron tones. At saltwater and freshwater beaches with plenty of black iron sand, every deep target can sound mostly like iron so hunting with all metals accepted for those targets is definitely the best way to hunt. Where I gold prospect with the Equinox the same rule applies since very small gold in high iron mineralization will read as iron targets. Depending on depth, size and iron masking, I have detected very small sub gram gold that read between -1 and -8. On the surface those tiny nuggets read +1 to +10.

In your area you may get lots of mysterious target responses in the -1 to +2 range due to the coal, coal cinders and coal slag in your area. That is what default Field 1 and Field 2 are for and is why they have default discrimination set at +3 to +40 accepted. So, in your case there might be an advantage to sometimes engaging the horseshoe button for all metals accepted and manually rejecting -1 to +2.

I have a similar problem with straight pin head sized and smaller naturally occurring iron magnetite particles which usually register as -9 or -8. I often hit the horseshoe button and then manually reject those 2 numbers if that constant ground noise is keeping me from hearing other better targets.

 

[PAslawslayer]

Indeed. But oddly the cinders here usually give me an 9-13 or 17 -19 . I’m in mining and steel producing country so who knows what residuals are in this stuff. I suppose the important thing comes back to every site is different. Know your area for the best results.

Thanks again.


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[jmaclen]

Indeed. But oddly the cinders here usually give me an 9-13 or 17 -19 . I’m in mining and steel producing country so who knows what residuals are in this stuff. I suppose the important thing comes back to every site is different. Know your area for the best results.

Thanks again.


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Those cinders may be from steel manufacturing. Steel will "false" on the Equinox in the target ID range you mentioned and even higher using the Multi setting.

 

[jmaclen]

Thank you very much for understanding and directly answering my original questions. And yes, the deep squeaks are in fact those short and intermittent mid 20’s to low 30’s readings. My pinpointer is the Garrett pro pointer.

I have all my modes set to 50 tone and always have “all metal” on and FE at 0. I sweep a new area in parks 1 and 2 with mud to high recovery speed and then switch to my fields 1 and 2 which are the same except the recovery speed is 3.

Again I’m new to detecting (feb 2021) but have obsessed on learning all I can and love to experiment. That’s why I ditched the simplex in June and got the equinox.

Thank you again for your post.


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Sounds to me like you are well on your way to being a very good detector user and your finds should be very good too if your locations are target rich.

 

[PAslawslayer]

Would this type of cinder be more prone to giving a better signal at a fair depth with the higher frequencies due to its lower conductivity?


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[atomicbrh]

I know longbow62 personally.
Met him in the Spring of 2006.
If he says he dug a certain coin at a certain depth, you can believe him.
There is no "quit" in him and no dishonesty in him.

 

[PAslawslayer]

I believe him and I also believe that the depth of a machine seems to be publicly measured by the max depth a target was found with a pretty good and repeatable tone by each individual. I’m no genius and by far no expert in detecting, but it seems the depth limits of any machine in a specific condition certainly is finite, but it’s up to the user to see where that limit lies.


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