Higher cost VS lower cost detectors

[woodbutcher]

I've heard guys say that and i believe you guys but don't get how something with virtually the same conductivity the same size and shape sound different could they possibly be reading the clad layers

It’s not so much the ID at all, but the sound. Clad anything gives a little jingle on the audio, but silver just sounds like the best high pitched tinkle I’ve ever heard on any machine. before I dig the hole I already know what’s down there,I just don’t know the date..I can and do actually pass up clad All the time,don’t even go back for a second pass , that silver warble will hit on the first pass

 

[Dave_e]

My 2 cents...

1st cent - I detect because I enjoy it. Detecting isn't a revenue stream for me. If I don't like the way a detector sounds, or swings, or feels, or if I don't like the interface, I stop using it. I own and use a few different machines because I like them, and they compliment each other.

2nd cent - To say "audio nuance doesn't exist in metal detecting" is just silly. That silliness could be driven by any number of reasons and there's no need for me to speculate on them.
Go search for bleedy, blendy audio, or open gate audio. If you have the right detector and you can't perform tests and verify the existence of audio nuance, check your hearing, check your headphones, check your settings, and check yourself.

 

[Diga]

To say "audio nuance doesn't exist in metal detecting" is just silly.

Except. No one said "Audio nuance doesn't exist in metal detecting"

I questioned the benefit of the D2's audio nuance, when compared to the audio of its competitors.

I gave typical hunting scenarios to show that the D2's audio nuance would have no benefit over the audio of its competitors. The scenarios I gave were for jewelry hunting, coin cherry picking, and unmasking coins in nonferrous trash. No one refuted my conclusion in the examples I gave.

 

[Cherry Picker]

Except. No one said "Audio nuance doesn't exist in metal detecting"

I questioned the benefit of the D2's audio nuance, when compared to the audio of its competitors.

I gave typical hunting scenarios to show that the D2's audio nuance would have no benefit over the audio of its competitors. The scenarios I gave were for jewelry hunting, coin cherry picking, and unmasking coins in nonferrous trash. No one refuted my conclusion in the examples I gave.

I saw your opinion on why you don't think the audio nuances have any benefit, but I've also seen many examples of how it does. I myself talked about how doing a coil walk-back works to expose a bottle cap/iron target grunt over a conductive one.

 

[Diga]

I saw your opinion on why you don't think the audio nuances have any benefit, but I've also seen many examples of how it does. I myself talked about how doing a coil walk-back works to expose a bottle cap/iron target grunt over a conductive one.

I agree with you on that CP. However, that method can be used successfully on just about any detector. I successfully use that method on my Legend, and used it on my Vanquish 540. In other words, that isn't something that's a result of the D2's nuanced audio, so it doesn't negate my point

 

[tnsharpshooter]

Go to old home site.
You’ll find aluminum that reads in coin range. Junk metal too. With Deus 2 and a lot of other detectors.
One sweep of coil to trained Deus 2 users ear can expose object not coin or ring shaped/ or be bs for quality of metal. Some of this stuff size wise pinpoint won’t help you either. Meaning using lot of other detectors you’ll have to dig. Because you don’t have any intel on target other than size and ID. Deus 2 and even Deus 1 can yield junk status of the object. You see with a Deus 2 you won’t even have to pinpoint to know the junk status even some of the smaller and the bigger. Some folks may with other detectors hold their coil up off the ground. Deus 2 user likely won’t have to do due to bs nuance sound of object. Saves a lot of time and digging. Gives user big time piece of mind too. It works. Been using Xp detectors for little over 10 years. And many other models too. I did a video just as late demoing and talking about this. No one posted a comment to it either saying SS is full of it. Wonder why? Hmm.
Just did another video comparing Deus 2 and Manticore sweeping zinclon and centerfire rifle case. Checking the nuance each offers. Is there a difference ? I think so.

 

[Cherry Picker]

I agree with you on that CP. However, that method can be used successfully on just about any detector. I successfully use that method on my Legend, and used it on my Vanquish 540. In other words, that isn't something that's a result of the D2's nuanced audio, so it doesn't negate my point

I just have never heard it so prominently as on the D2. Most without a full tones option don't do it very well. I don't remember ever using it on my Equinox, but then that was when they first came out.

I think it would be interesting to see the audio output of these new SMF detectors on an oscilloscope. I just bet we'd see the frequency spectrum much fuller on the D2. I'm just speaking from a sound technician's view of what I hear. The D2 sounds not just a little, but a lot fuller frequency output.

 

[Diga]

Go to old home site.
You’ll find aluminum that reads in coin range. Junk metal too. With Deus 2 and a lot of other detectors.
One sweep of coil to trained Deus 2 users ear can expose object not coin or ring shaped/ or be bs for quality of metal.

All of that is meaningless, unless it's an equal, 2 detector "head to head" comparison with targets in the wild.

Much of what we see in above ground controlled tests with controlled objects (like you do), completely falls apart in the wild. Ground conditions, shape, orientation, depth, size, length of time in the ground etc, etc, has massive and random effects on tonal response and TID. Those effects supersede any D2 tonal "nuance" benefit...by a long shot.

 

[tnsharpshooter]

Yeah. I have swept exact same target in the ground in the wild with both Deus 2 and Manticore both with 11” coils. You know what I heard.. guess.

Your logic….you think the ground is going to starting making one do better(that does worse in air test) vs the other. Like it is going to all of a sudden catch up and pass the other due to dirt? Hmmm
You win no prize here. Sorry. Both modes are multi freq btw.

What falls apart is making statements about a model’s tendencies you have never evidently owned, operated or seen in person operated.

 

[Diga]

What falls apart is making statements about a model’s tendencies you have never evidently owned, operated or seen in person operated.

Again, I don't need to own a D2 to know that ground conditions, shape, orientation, depth, size, length of time in the ground etc, etc, has massive and random effects on tonal response and TID. Those effects supersede any D2 tonal "nuance" benefit...by a long shot.

I find your methodology to be weak, your tests unrealistic, and you lack objectivity. To make matters worse, you then draw absolute, blanket conclusion based on weak and misleading evidence.

Bottom line:

Take a good hunter with a D2 and good hunter with a competing product, and let them loose in a city park. Provided that the detectors are set up equally, they both are going to get the same amount of trash, and the same amount of treasure.

 

[tnsharpshooter]

My test are so unrealistic. It was you who said Legend had no problems in modern trash. I determined through testing it fell short of Eqx park 1. What happened? Detector was updated changed M3 and now how does Legend compare to EQx park 1? Hmmmm
I even showed live dig video showing the weakness of Legend using park and field modes with lower conducive trash masking dime in the wild.
Detector was mis IDing nickels depending on GB setting. What happened? Detector was updated correcting the problem,e. It was you who said my failing to reset after update was cause. That was not true. Again my testing stood up.
Keep thinking that my test are unrealistic ,,, You’ll go far……….

 

[Cherry Picker]

Digalicious, you're right. At the end of the day, what is in your pouch is what counts. That said, a better ability to tell trash from treasure makes a difference when you look at the pouch and compare trash to keepers. I know some people don't care for Paystreaks videos, but I watch a lot of them, because he often uses the Deus, and like it or not, he does a pretty good job of calling his targets. Mostly with the Deus & D2. He talks a lot about the tonal ability of the Deus compared to his other SMF machines.

Without swinging the D2 personally it is hard to explain the difference in tonal output and its function in telling good from bad. I see him trying to explain the tonal difference between the Deus and other detectors, but unless you're swinging it and hearing it yourself it is hard to describe.

One thing I think most experienced detectorists can agree on is that all bets are off beyond 7" depending on your conditions. Most of these cool new features are really only good to 6" or so.

 

[woodbutcher]

Audio nuances seems to be a broad word I've only seen used from guys using relic machines,ya know the ones who dig anything that squeeks..Can't ever say I've read a post from a coin hunter using that term,then again I can't see many coin hunters using a relic machine

 

[Diga]

My test are so unrealistic. It was you who said Legend had no problems in modern trash. I determined through testing it fell short of Eqx park 1. What happened? Detector was updated changed M3 and now how does Legend compare to EQx park 1? Hmmmm

There's aways exceptions. Even broken mechanical clocks are right twice a day.

Yes, you made a video showing that the Legend should have a Multi mode equivalently weighted to beach MW mode and / or 4 khz, but you didn't discover that. Although, I give you credit for making the video, because that particular test was legit, and it was instrumental for the modification of M3. So, thank you for that

 

[tnsharpshooter]

Let’s see. If a detector does a lousy job elevated above ground with separation/unmasking with nonferrous coin and nail. Is it going to be a killer performer once the nail and coin are buried and in the same orientation? Hmmmm.
We can’t shed any light whatsoever on the potential a machine has for unmasking/separation doing elevated tests? Hmmmm

And if you think the manufacturers of detectors aren’t doing air testing to check performance.
I got some beach front property on Az I’ll sell you,

 

[Diga]

CP,

I don't see Paystreak "calling it" very often, unless it's one of those easy to call targets. Either way, pretty much all I see that guy do, is dig massive amounts of trash, regardless of what detector he uses.

 

[woodbutcher]

CP,

I don't see Paystreak "calling it" very often, unless it's one of those easy to call targets. Either way, pretty much all I see that guy do, is dig massive amounts of trash, regardless of what detector he uses

Paystreak is a modern day park relic hunter. Anything that's lost is his relic to find..lol..I watch his videos, and good for him if that's his mindset to dig all that trash. I do occasionally , but when I dont want trash I take a minelab

 

[Diga]

Let’s see. If a detector does a lousy job elevated above ground with separation/unmasking with nonferrous coin and nail. Is it going to be a killer performer once the nail and coin are buried and in the same orientation?

Of course it won't.

Ironically though, you just proved my point that:

Much of what we see in above ground controlled tests with controlled objects (like you do), completely falls apart in the wild. Ground conditions, shape, orientation, depth, size, length of time in the ground etc, etc, has massive and random effects on tonal response and TID. Those effects supersede any D2 tonal "nuance" benefit...by a long shot.

 

[Cherry Picker]

CP,

I don't see Paystreak "calling it" very often, unless it's one of those easy to call targets. Either way, pretty much all I see that guy do, is dig massive amounts of trash, regardless of what detector he uses.

I can't agree, because I see him call pull tab ring, which can read anywhere, but I can say if you still have doubts about tonal nuances, take the very well known "silver warble" of the E-Trac. The E-Trac , and the CTX to a lesser degree, have this audio ability. I think the D2, and D1 to a lesser amount, have that same audio ability to help the user identify targets by the tone.

 

[ghound]

Do you see any D2 beach hunters ignoring massive amount of nonferrous tones, because they think it's aluminum trash? I've never seen any, and I dig all nonferrous targets when water and beach hunting as well (with slight exceptions). Sure, those nonferrous signals could very well be aluminum trash, but they could just as well be a gold ring, or some other type of gold jewelry.

Yep me