Higher cost VS lower cost detectors

[Diga]

There is more junk in sites than pull rings and pull tabs in sites. To hang up a person on.
Again get near deus 2 user on old home site and have a look see.
Can slaw, square thingies of thin aluminum, etc, these can give some pretty good ID. They fail lots of times in the audio nuance dept. Even a twist cap can fail (unmashed). Hmmm

OMG. Seriously?

Fine, I'll rephrase it. So, again:

Do you see any D2 beach hunters saying, "Not digging this, because it sounds like nonferrous trash"? Of course you don't see that, because they know that sound could just as well be a gold ring or other type of gold jewelry.

 

[Beachhunt1]

The price vs performance, was the main point of my post, but it sure opened up a can of worms. Oh well, it's been entertaining

Again, it is YOUR preconceived can of worms.
If a topline detector nets even two rings more in a season and costs 1,500 more than the other detector. I AM SPENDING the extra $1,500.
How is your cheap detector on Gold Chains? Just one of those can put big dollars in your wallet.

 

[tnsharpshooter]

There are many detecting venues.
One must use what works for them depending on their sites and target goals.
Is dig all nonferrous targets the mission for all venues ? Nope not for me.
Digging bs audio nuance targets in old home site will waste a lot of time. Keeping user from getting coil over something better.
Called making best use of time detecting. What a concept !!

 

[Valley Hunter]

Higher cost VS lower cost detectors
Not a bashing fight ...
ALWAYS Happens
My Detector is better than your Detector

 

[Cherry Picker]

At the same time? I don't think the D2 has 2 channel audio

Regardless, I'm kind of confused by that example, because as long as the iron volume is set accordingly, and it's not discriminated out, then it would be one crappy detector if it didn't give an iron grunt along with a nonferrous tone.

I'm also not understanding your point that, "A good solid target had a small tight tone. Trash has a tendency to spread a tone out and it sounds fatter". Well, a pulltab will have a small tight tone, just as small foil would, a gold ring would, or a coin would. That's just a product of how metal detectors work , not a product of the audio. Unless I'm misinterpreting your point?

You're right it doesn't have a two channel audio, but it doesn't take a two channel audio to get the overtones. If you have ever worked with an oscilloscope you know how a frequency looks. Take the difference between the Fender single coil pickup vs the Gibson humbucker dual coil. Same amplifier, but totally different tones. Put them on an ossiliscope and you see the Fender frequency for say a 1000 HZ tone is much thinner than the fat 1000 HZ tone on a Gibson. The fat Gibson 1000 HZ tone has many more overtones, we would call them harmonics, The audio on the Deus seems to be the same way. I'd bet if you put the other SMF detectors on an oscilloscope you'd find the audio on the Deus to be fatter and contain more harmonics. The more harmonics the more information from a target can be heard.

Take a piece of foil flatten it out and run over it, then wad it up in a ball and run over it. Hear the difference? Yeah, it's that simple. I think the Deus does a better job of giving the user this information, which could also be because of the audio containing more information, than the average beeper. Remember, this is just my opinion based on having used both the Deus & Deus 2 along with many other high-end detectors. I used to call the Deus tone zippy for that very reason. It wasn't as much a beep tone, as a zippy sound containing a wider group of harmonics.

 

[Diga]

You're right it doesn't have a two channel audio, but it doesn't take a two channel audio to get the overtones.

Notice I put a wink emoji at the end of my two channel statement

Take a piece of foil flatten it out and run over it, then wad it up in a ball and run over it. Hear the difference? Yeah, it's that simple.

It sure is that simple...for controlled tests, with controlled targets.

In the wild however, it's certainly not simple. Rather, it's "random" tones and ID based on size, shape, condition, type, orientation, and depth. Any and all of which produce vast variations in ID and tones.

So CP, I'll pose the same question to you, as I have to others

Do you see any D2 beach hunters ignoring massive amount of nonferrous tones, because they think it's aluminum trash? I've never seen any, and I dig all nonferrous targets when water and beach hunting as well (with slight exceptions). Sure, those nonferrous signals could very well be aluminum trash, but they could just as well be a gold ring, or some other type of gold jewelry.

 

[Cherry Picker]

Notice I put a wink emoji at the end of my two channel statement


It sure is that simple...for controlled tests, with controlled targets.

In the wild however, it's certainly not simple. Rather, it's "random" tones and ID based on size, shape, condition, type, orientation, and depth. Any and all of which produce vast variations in ID and tones.

So CP, I'll pose the same question to you, as I have to others

Do you see any D2 beach hunters ignoring massive amount of nonferrous tones, because they think it's aluminum trash? I've never seen any, and I dig all nonferrous targets when water and beach hunting as well (with slight exceptions). Sure, those nonferrous signals could very well be aluminum trash, but they could just as well be a gold ring, or some other type of gold jewelry.

I have never been to a beach much less hunted one. I do know there are many other places people hunt than the beach. The beach holds many anomalies when it comes to a metal detector that much I do know. I watched a video yesterday and the seemingly experienced hunter, called iron on every piece of good jewelry he pulled. He was using the 900 by the way.

Not saying that one is better than the other. Some people prefer the thinner crisp tone of the Fender guitar, and some prefer the fatter full tone of the Gibson. Just saying, to me, there is a tonal difference between the Deus and the other top-end detectors, and that is one of the two things I feel separate the Deus from the other detectors. Tone and ergonomics.

 

[Diga]

Just saying, to me, there is a tonal difference between the Deus and the other top-end detectors, and that is one of the two things I feel separate the Deus from the other detectors. Tone and ergonomics.

I totally agree with you on that CP.

My question and points though, are in regard to how exactly that tonal nuance is going to dig more trash and less treasure, when compared to the D2's competition.

I've provided typical hunting examples that show that as long as you have a tone, then tone nuance makes no difference in the dig / no dig decision. Maybe there is an exact and specific scenario in which that nuance is beneficial. If there is, I sure would like to know about it.

 

[Diga]

I just found a video that perfectly describes my whole point of making this thread.

The video is from the beach hunter that goes by the name of “Gigmaster”. He’s the most accomplished and successful beach hunter that I’ve seen. In the video, he gives the reasons why he sold his 800’s, his D2’s, Excalibur, and has exclusively used a Legend for the past year. He talks about how the Legend as being better built, and having the same performance as his expensive detectors, despite its low cost. Granted, Nokta sent him the Legend, but after becoming acquainted with it, he bought two of them.

All detector companies send free detectors to influencers. That in of itself, is not a bad thing. Rather, it’s smart marketing. However, as is blatantly seen with some of the YouTubers that get free stuff, “bias” and a total lack of objectivity is often a result. Fortunately, Gigmaster shows no bias. He even talks about how he had the speaker blow out on his Legend, but also mentions that Nokta admitted they had a bad batch of speakers, and fixed the problem.

With all that said, my whole point of this thread isn’t about the Legend, or even Nokta for that matter. That is why I mentioned the other low cost / high performing detectors in my original post.

Anyway, here’s the video:

 

[sube]

What an eye opening story TNS. Now let me share one with you:

I once thought I heard a hippo in my backyard. Turned out it was a unicorn.

Thanks for sharing that imfo helps a lot . sube

 

[KOB]

Putting 50% more power to the coil and getting maybe 7% added depth over the Nox is insignificant. Costing 50% more than a Nox is !
Here's how I've been looking at it for many years now. EVERY machine I've ever owned has paid for itself in 2-3 weeks in gold hunting salt beaches. The most expensive being the Nox 800 with 15" coil , Steve's CF shaft and a few minor accessories. Cost at the time was around $1400ish. All my other old machines were from $375 - 650.
Now , I would seriously doubt I could pull that off buying a new $1500 machine. Not in 3 weeks , maybe in months now unless I got real lucky during a storm. With these facts to consider now : way more hunters now than ever trying to make a name for themselves , less crowds on the beaches over the last 3 years , society going more & more cashless and people just not wearing gold like they used to. So whether it be a $1500 or whatever high priced machine , I just don't see it until I see something sand shattering in terms of performance. My $575 beater PI gets the job done and I'm OK with that.

 

[Cherry Picker]

Putting 50% more power to the coil and getting maybe 7% added depth over the Nox is insignificant. Costing 50% more than a Nox is !
Here's how I've been looking at it for many years now. EVERY machine I've ever owned has paid for itself in 2-3 weeks in gold hunting salt beaches. The most expensive being the Nox 800 with 15" coil , Steve's CF shaft and a few minor accessories. Cost at the time was around $1400ish. All my other old machines were from $375 - 650.
Now , I would seriously doubt I could pull that off buying a new $1500 machine. Not in 3 weeks , maybe in months now unless I got real lucky during a storm. With these facts to consider now : way more hunters now than ever trying to make a name for themselves , less crowds on the beaches over the last 3 years , society going more & more cashless and people just not wearing gold like they used to. So whether it be a $1500 or whatever high priced machine , I just don't see it until I see something sand shattering in terms of performance. My $575 beater PI gets the job done and I'm OK with that.

Agreed. Hunting with hopes of paying for a new detector is tougher today than they have ever been. COVID didn't help matters. Tough economy, and so much competition now. I used to just sell off some gold when I wanted to buy the latest greatest detector. Doesn't happen anymore.

I feel for the beach hunters. I often watch their videos and see detectors from one end of the beach to the other. That is what happens when you let the cat out of the bag.

 

[tnsharpshooter]

There are more detecting venues that beaches.
You always to try find one example to nullify entirely what someone has said.
Try a Deus 2 and see. Hmmm

 

[Diga]

I got permission to hunt in the water at a private beach and campground. It was never hunted before. Long story short, in four 3 hour hunts, I got about 30 rings out of that place. Thing is, only 2 were gold, 4 silver, and all the rest were mainly TC.

If that was 30 years ago when I first started detecting, most of those rings would have been gold and silver. Oh well. I try not to dwell on that, because it was still fun and satisfying.

 

[Cherry Picker]

For some time now I've been sure my tot lots are being hunted by at least one other person. I've never seen anyone, but the normal finds have changed significantly. My hunting buddy moved to Texas to be near family a couple of months ago so I thought I'd have the tot lots to myself. I have a way, I think, to test to see if they are being hunted. I'm going to plant a quarter in each tot lot in an open area under the fill and check it each time I go back to hunt. If I find the quarters missing I'll be pretty sure someone else is hunting my spots. When I go to each tot lot I'll check for the quarter first, if it is still there then there is a good chance no one has hit it yet.

 

[Diga]

Damn CP. That would really suck if someone else is hunting your productive tot lots.

A similar thing happened to me recently. I've never seen any hunter, but I get a solid coin signal, crouch down, and see a freakin plug! It was a recent plug, and done with care, but it was a plug nonetheless! I pull it out and find a dime in the plug! So, I start moving some of the leaves around, and sure enough, I see other plugs. Fortunately though, it's a huge site, and I've only seen the plugs in one small area of it.

 

[cellrdwellr]

There is more junk in sites than pull rings and pull tabs in sites. To hang up a person on.
Again get near deus 2 user on old home site and have a look see.
Can slaw, square thingies of thin aluminum, etc, these can give some pretty good ID. They fail lots of times in the audio nuance dept. Even a twist cap can fail (unmashed). Hmmm

Even gold and silver fail in the audio nuance department sometimes, I'm still not seeing a 1500$ detector picking out good targets any better than a 500$ detector. Just my experience, and hopefully the newer tech is addressing these shortcomings. I'm just not seeing any EVIDENCE...

I didn’t turn this thread into anything. The op introduced the model. And fails to understand maybe part of the reason for the cost of the unit. Not your average bear detector. In more ways than one.

He introduced ALL models, you seem to be stuck on the D2. I wonder why?

 

[The Lama]

As far as dirt hunting goes,,To date the only machine I've used that I can actually tell a silver coin from a clad coin is a fbs machine, and thats the audio not the visual..never had a manicore but I doubt it can tell a silver from a clad any better than a D2 or legend...I can take a D2,legend or nox and work a junk signal into a great sounding coin .. You can't do that with fbs, work that junk signal as long as you want, it'll always call it junk..
The price vs performance is a big factor for probably 3/4 of the playing field in this Hobbie. And imo the Legend is the best bang for the buck, and nipping at the heels of everything else that's 3 xs the price

I've heard guys say that and i believe you guys but don't get how something with virtually the same conductivity the same size and shape sound different could they possibly be reading the clad layers

 

[Cherry Picker]

I've heard guys say that and i believe you guys but don't get how something with virtually the same conductivity the same size and shape sound different could they possibly be reading the clad layers

I would say it reads the difference in the conductivity of a silver coin versus a copper & zinc coin. I know with my E-Trac I can pretty well tell clad from silver before I recover it. Most clad pennies & dimes will read in the 42-44 VDI, but almost never hit a 45 much less a 46. When I see a target giving me a VDI of 45-46, even if it is one or two swings and the rest are 43-44, I can be pretty darn sure it will be silver.

 

[The Lama]

I got permission to hunt in the water at a private beach and campground. It was never hunted before. Long story short, in four 3 hour hunts, I got about 30 rings out of that place. Thing is, only 2 were gold, 4 silver, and all the rest were mainly TC.

If that was 30 years ago when I first started detecting, most of those rings would have been gold and silver. Oh well. I try not to dwell on that, because it was still fun and satisfying.

That is about the normal ratio