Fisher Impulse AQ detector update

[Surf Master]

Rick

Ok, answered well , one last ? 100 units made, is this for the UK , UK & USA , both combined , how did F come up with such a small amount of machines produced , after years of research , the wait , along with 0 machines on the market to purchase , than finally 100 machines , was beyond a huge disapointment .

 

[beachrumbum]

I’m still concerned about discrimination, we know it is a ground balance point so then can we assume that size will play a role in what is discriminated out? Does this mean that small iron items may register in the gold range and large gold chains and such could be seen as iron? The same issue as every other disc pulse on the market? Not that that would be an issue, variety is good and a pulse from Fisher could be welcomed, the issue lay with the claims that have been made and if they are indeed true or slightly misleading.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

I’m still concerned about discrimination, we know it is a ground balance point so then can we assume that size will play a role in what is discriminated out? Does this mean that small iron items may register in the gold range and large gold chains and such could be seen as iron? The same issue as every other disc pulse on the market? Not that that would be an issue, variety is good and a pulse from Fisher could be welcomed, the issue lay with the claims that have been made and if they are indeed true or slightly misleading.

WHAT ? Are you kidding ? Haven't you been reading ? It's gonna be the perfect combination of normally expected disc, and flawless TID. While effortlessly cutting black sand, and easily getting coins and rings at pulse depths. The perfect cat's meow. Tsk tsk, get with the show here !

 

[lytle78]

The first production batch has been variously reported as 24 or 100 - depending on where the info came from.

In any event, Fisher does not anticipate that this machine - aimed at a niche (Salt beach detecting) within a niche (Underwater detector) will be a runaway bestseller. That is one reason for what looks like it will be a “soft launch”. Whatever the size of the first batch, I expect the ongoing rate will be very low compared to the multi thousand batches of their mass market products.

Tim Mallory, the marketing VP told me once that they could come in in the morning and find an order for 500 units of one of their main-line machines and ship it by noon. The AQ is unlikely to be like that.

Initially (at least) - every unit will be pressure tested for water tightness and bench tested to check correct operation in all modes. Nobody normally does 100% final inspection on mass-produced hardware.

This last bit of information I have (this week) first hand from the source - Tom Walsh, the President is VERY careful with this product - they have had 3 years of hard work and sometimes hard lessons turning a hand-built by the designer prototype into a qualified for production product. With the COViD19 shutting down beaches - they will no doubt be using the time to make extra sure it’s ready and figuring out how they will handle the launch.

 

[lytle78]

BRB - ignore Tom - he’s playing the fool - he likes the role.

First your questions.

The discrimination is based on decay times of eddy currents from targets - not phase shift based primarily on conductivity like with VLF/IB machines. Ferrous targets‘ eddy currents have a ferromagnetic component which makes even small ones tend to persist and therefore end up on the “high conductor” side of the balance point - a long with (sadly) silver.

It is not infallible and the Reject control is how the user adjust the degree of ID/Rejection.

But to get back to the “Jester” - Tom. YES it does cut effortlessly through black sand and find gold jewelry unfindable with current machines . You will have to wait a while to see demonstrations of that so I suggest you save your remaining 401k balance until the results from careful and respected beach pirate experts (I am NOT one of those) report their experiences,

 

[Tom_in_CA]

.... and find gold jewelry unfindable with current machines . ...

I'm happy to play the part of the Jester. It's a tough job but .... someone's gotta do it, eh ? The "resident kill-joy", eh ?

Ok, I do not doubt that pulse machines cut through black. And yes, there have been times (though rare) that I would have sacrificed my first-born daughter for a pulse machine ! Like we're working hot & heavy after beach erosion, digging old silver coins. But alas, when we get near the gully-washes, or up next to the base of certain cuts , on certain beaches, the sand goes gunpowder black. Machines like our Excal, CTX, Explorers, Sov, etc.... will start to go wanky. It will be all-we-can do to get 2" deep (have to go "auto" mode, and hold the coil a few inches up, and go *real* slow. A big pain-in-the-b#tt.

In those conditions, I've even sometimes seen silver coins RIGHT ON TOP OF THE BLACK SAND. And when I wave over them, can't get a peep. Doh !

Fortunately, those conditions are rare around here. And I move to an area that's not so black. But you can BET I wish I had a pulse in those situations. I would gladly temporarily give up the ability to knock out iron, JUST to exploit those zones.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Rick, even if this did accomplish usable discrimination (and iron rejection), I can think of one downside to the "super-sensitivity" of pulse machines, that sometimes turns out to be a "downside".

For example, I toyed around with a Nox 800, thinking I was going to angle for micro-jewelry on a certain dry-sand section of a millionaires beach. Gotta be some dainty chains or earring studs that all those standard machines have been missing all these years, eh ?

And sure as heck, I NEVER LACKED FOR TTTEENNSSYYY things to choose from . Wooohoo. I could practically FEEL the tinsel thin chains and diamond earring studs that would soon be jumping out of the ground and into my pouch . Eh ?

But after an hour of digging TTTeeeennnsssy foil turds, pinhead cr#p, etc.... I began to think "Gee, do I really want micro-jewelry *that* bad ?". I mean, heck, what's the intrinsic weight of a tinsel thin chain after all ? DOH !

POINT BEING : If a person DOESN'T want the "bells of Notre Dame" to scream off of every birdshot item, can he set this machine to respond as normal machines do ? Or is this "super-sensitivity" just hard-wired in ? At least, on the Nox, you can set the controls to mimic standard machines, where it's just going after normal coin and ring sized stuff (and will miss a ttteennnssyy foil turd).

You know the old saying about beach pulse machines: A) The "good news" is that : They're so sensitive, that you can find a bobby pin to a foot deep !, but B) the "bad news" is that : They're so sensitive , that you can find a bobby pin to a foot deep. Doh !

Thus, if someone didn't want to be bothered with insane teensy stuff, can he make this machine react more like a standard coin machine, versus the usual pulse insane sensitivity ?

 

[lytle78]

Tom - first of all thank you for not taking (rightful) offense at my opening shot in my last post - I apologize.

I will go back after supper and digest (oops) the rest of your thoughtful post, but one bit struck me especially...

“Thus, if someone didn't want to be bothered with insane teensy stuff, can he make this machine react more like a standard coin machine, versus the usual pulse insane sensitivity ?”

That’s exactly what Alexandre has designed this thing to avoid, While extremely sensitive (because of careful design and a super low noise floor) to low conductors, even at 7mS pulse delay it is not especially sensitive to tiny low conductors. My VLF gold machines are MUCH more sensitive to tiny bits than the AQ. It’s more of a case of solid hits out of the “quiet” on targets which are of interest.

I’m sure this sounds like “Mumbo-jumbo” , but it’s real. The standard coil now is 12.5” - it may come with an 8” option or accessory, but now it’s the large one. That means even at short pulse delay, it isn’t super sensitive to foil bits, etc.

Kind of like tests I have done and others have reported on with the Fisher GB2, the small coil hits flyspeck bits way better than the 10” one, but the larger one goes way deeper than the little one on other than tiny targets,

Again, sorry about the tone of my last post - your contributions are always interesting, sometimes amusing and almost always worth careful consideration.

 

[lytle78]

Tom, to address one more part of your excellent come-back. You wrote...

“Ok, I do not doubt that pulse machines cut through black. And yes, there have been times (though rare) that I would have sacrificed my first-born daughter for a pulse machine ! Like we're working hot & heavy after beach erosion, digging old silver coins. But alas, when we get near the gully-washes, or up next to the base of certain cuts , on certain beaches, the sand goes gunpowder black. Machines like our Excal, CTX, Explorers, Sov, etc.... will start to go wanky. It will be all-we-can do to get 2" deep (have to go "auto" mode, and hold the coil a few inches up, and go *real* slow. A big pain-in-the-b#tt.

In those conditions, I've even sometimes seen silver coins RIGHT ON TOP OF THE BLACK SAND. And when I wave over them, can't get a peep. Doh !

Fortunately, those conditions are rare around here. And I move to an area that's not so black. But you can BET I wish I had a pulse in those situations. I would gladly temporarily give up the ability to knock out iron, JUST to exploit those zones.”

Yes, I am willing to bet an excellent lunch at the best Mexican Restaurant in Globe AZ, that upon its introduction, the AQ will do just what you talked above in that post better than any machine which has ever existed.

If we ever lick this cursed virus, I plan to spend some serious time on the nastiest black sand I can find in fresh or salt water and scoop up all the “relic” gold that VLF’s never saw.

Once upon a time you offered a nook in your business place for me to hole up in while we find out if this “Wunderwaffen” can do anything for your detecting addiction!!

 

[beachrumbum]

BRB - ignore Tom - he’s playing the fool - he likes the role.

First your questions.

The discrimination is based on decay times of eddy currents from targets - not phase shift based primarily on conductivity like with VLF/IB machines. Ferrous targets‘ eddy currents have a ferromagnetic component which makes even small ones tend to persist and therefore end up on the “high conductor” side of the balance point - a long with (sadly) silver.

It is not infallible and the Reject control is how the user adjust the degree of ID/Rejection.

But to get back to the “Jester” - Tom. YES it does cut effortlessly through black sand and find gold jewelry unfindable with current machines . You will have to wait a while to see demonstrations of that so I suggest you save your remaining 401k balance until the results from careful and respected beach pirate experts (I am NOT one of those) report their experiences,

Here’s the thing, this is how the Tdi works and I am sure others such as the Garrett infinium and possibly the ATX. Decay times of eddy currents and setting the ground balance allows one to set where that point is ie. set below 12:00 a small gold ring could be in the low range and set above 12:00 would put that same gold ring in the high tone range. This sort of discrimination works to a degree but can be misleading in certain instances such as large gold, could, if large enough, always give a low tone or “ferrous” tone regardless of where the ground balance is set or the mixture of various metals with the base of gold could also skew this result. So infallible it is not but more so, it is likely prone to be misleading in certain instances. Of course it is another tool to use but what I am trying to understand is, how does this machine stand apart from this common issue among this type of pi? Or does it at all? Could a large gold nugget the size of a golf ball register as ferrous and likewise could a small piece of iron register as non ferrous?

 

[Tom_in_CA]

.... Once upon a time you offered a nook in your business place for me to hole up in...

Yes, my commercial business property has a little cubicle with army cot, shower, fridge, and microwave. And my rates are reasonable !

Hard to say when the beach will be eroding here. And even if/when it is, hard to say whether there'll be black-sand going on . I can think of one particular infamous beach that .... whenever it erodes, there is a gully-wash mouth, where it's invariably always gun-powder black. That's "Manresa Beach", right here : 36.931714, -121.862225 The current satellite view shows light-color. But when the winter rains "wash out" that channel, into a river-flow, the channel is invariably black. I guess because of the mineral content in that nearby hillsides.

 

[lytle78]

BRB, generally speaking -no. You wrote...

“allows one to set where that point is ie. set below 12:00 a small gold ring could be in the low range and set above 12:00 would put that same gold ring in the high tone range.”

The AQ doesn’t work that way, gold jewelry up through 22k will always give a high tone in discriminate.

24k might register along with iron in discriminate, but if you are hunting some Asian beach full of Chinese and Indian 24k, iron is the least of your problems - hunt in all metal - cash in your gold at the casino in Macao and recover from any recent investment setbacks -

But of course - no AQ available, no flights, reality sucks!!

 

[beachrumbum]

BRB, generally speaking -no. You wrote...

“allows one to set where that point is ie. set below 12:00 a small gold ring could be in the low range and set above 12:00 would put that same gold ring in the high tone range.”

The AQ doesn’t work that way, gold jewelry up through 22k will always give a high tone in discriminate.

24k might register along with iron in discriminate, but if you are hunting some Asian beach full of Chinese and Indian 24k, iron is the least of your problems - hunt in all metal - cash in your gold at the casino in Macao and recover from any recent investment setbacks -

But of course - no AQ available, no flights, reality sucks!!

Ok, so it is your opinion that we won’t miss much gold, perhaps higher karat, when in discriminate. This leads me to ask, will I have to dig, bottle caps? Certain small iron bits? Bobby pins? I know most everything else non ferrous will have to be dug same as the best vlf, but what about those tricky mixed metal items previously mentioned?

 

[lytle78]

Bottle caps - “crown corks” as the Brits say - are the devils work. They are high tech multi metal sandwiches which bedevil lots of metal detectors - sadly the AQ is no exception. If you are in a “field” of them, there are some adjustments which might help you ID them by sound - but no promises. Physics is a harsh mistress.

Bobbie pins are elongated and can often be discriminated - even in all metal by the “double blip - but again - it might be a long bit of jewelry.

The AQ isn’t magic - just a better tool for gold jewelery in the salt than anything we have now - or so I have become convinced.

 

[beachrumbum]

Rick, thank you for answering my questions. I feel I now have a better understanding of what to expect from this machine.

 

[Cfmct]

Bottle caps - “crown corks” as the Brits say - are the devils work. They are high tech multi metal sandwiches which bedevil lots of metal detectors - sadly the AQ is no exception. If you are in a “field” of them, there are some adjustments which might help you ID them by sound - but no promises. Physics is a harsh mistress.

Bobbie pins are elongated and can often be discriminated - even in all metal by the “double blip - but again - it might be a long bit of jewelry.

The AQ isn’t magic - just a better tool for gold jewelery in the salt than anything we have now - or so I have become convinced.

Who has convinced you Rick? Those are big claims that you think its better than anything out there now... until others use it what you posted is just words o a screen.

 

[lytle78]

Who has convinced me?

My own limited use of two different AQ prototypes - their depth and solid threshold, the usability (but not infallibility) of the discrimination.

It is deep, quiet and hits hard on low conductors including black sand beaches in San Diego.

It is clearly superior in depth and stability to the TDI, I have owned three of them.

I have had the good fortune to correspond extensively with the designer, Alexandre Tartar and the Chief development tester Denis (LE.JAG).

I have viewed various demonstrations on Skype video calls and unreleased videos made by the development team.

But all that only addresses my conviction. My conviction means NOTHING beyond words on a page - as you righty point out - until experienced and trusted users have one and report their findings.

I ask no one to take my “conviction” at face value. I do however stand behind what I have posted concerning my understanding of how the AQ works and how it is therefore different from other detectors on the market.

 

[KOB]

Who has convinced me?

My own limited use of two different AQ prototypes - their depth and solid threshold, the usability (but not infallibility) of the discrimination.

It is deep, quiet and hits hard on low conductors including black sand beaches in San Diego.

It is clearly superior in depth and stability to the TDI, I have owned three of them.

I have had the good fortune to correspond extensively with the designer, Alexandre Tartar and the Chief development tester Denis (LE.JAG).

I have viewed various demonstrations on Skype video calls and unreleased videos made by the development team.

But all that only addresses my conviction. My conviction means NOTHING beyond words on a page - as you righty point out - until experienced and trusted users have one and report their findings.

I ask no one to take my “conviction” at face value. I do however stand behind what I have posted concerning my understanding of how the AQ works and how it is therefore different from other detectors on the market.

Just curious...you say you've owned 3 TDIs. Why 3 ? I thought you mentioned somewhere that you're NOT an expert salt water hunter or have much experience doing that type of hunting. Yet....you were able to determine all the great things this machine can do in just a few outings ? That fast ? I know Diego pretty well , and there are quite a few black sand beaches. I thought I was good. I guess not. It always took me alot more than 2 or 3 hunts to do a QUALITY comparison between a couple of detectors in different conditions on a beach. I wish you could come up with a vaccine for this virus that quick. Just curious...

 

[Cfmct]

Who has convinced me?

My own limited use of two different AQ prototypes - their depth and solid threshold, the usability (but not infallibility) of the discrimination.

It is deep, quiet and hits hard on low conductors including black sand beaches in San Diego.

It is clearly superior in depth and stability to the TDI, I have owned three of them.

I have had the good fortune to correspond extensively with the designer, Alexandre Tartar and the Chief development tester Denis (LE.JAG).

I have viewed various demonstrations on Skype video calls and unreleased videos made by the development team.

But all that only addresses my conviction. My conviction means NOTHING beyond words on a page - as you righty point out - until experienced and trusted users have one and report their findings.

I ask no one to take my “conviction” at face value. I do however stand behind what I have posted concerning my understanding of how the AQ works and how it is therefore different from other detectors on the market.

First off you are not a beach hunter... secondly if I remember correctly you posted on another forum you were having issues running it...

I'm just a simple beach hunter who knows what works and just because you and the guys who built it say what you say does not make it so...

Until real beach hunters take it out in the wild everything posted so far is just words to sell this detector...


None of the videos so far have impressed me none... none of them show a detector that is deeper than pulse machines that are built today...


We are the final judges.

 

[dewcon]

Wet sand on this side of Fl isnt that wide.... ill be convinced once i see some videos of some in the water use. Ive not seen many ... or any.... and that here in the Gulf can be half of beach hunting.....thats a lot of water to cover. Most detectors designed for salt water hunting do pretty well in the wet sand.... but all things are equal out there in the water. The MDT is the only machine thats impressed me by maintaining most of its depth from wet sand to in the water. We dont know what pulse delay we will be able to run out there either yet...... that will affect id think the size of gold targets found. Again.... ive not seen many or any videos showing the size of targets that can be found with the machine in the water. At this point ....like Joe im hoping for some depth. Im just not certain the sensitivity to small gold will improve over what im using. We will see.....