Cherry Picker
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How can you possibly say that and mean it? One detector has 6 possible IDs and the other 30. You see a problem there?
Proving to myself which is better 900 or Manticore
- Thread starter Magicmantx
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I am going to put it another way.
Lets change the -10 (CP said 10 not -10) to a target ID reading of 5 on the Legend and keep the 45 the same. In this scenario with those two IDs alternating and Ferro Check also showing ferrous/non ferrous alternating, what would that target most likely be in a normal park detecting scenario with the target easily reachable by your LG24 coil?
On the Etrac a target ID of 10 (FE) and 45 (CO) is a target that I am digging all day 100%.
Tyler, you might want to read pages 20 and 21 of the online Minelab Etrac manual.
By the way, targets that can have alternating roughly 5 and 45 target IDs on the Legend can have very distinctive pattern smudges on the Manticore's 2D display.
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Diga
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Honestly CP, I don't even know what your point is anymore
There's no point in even discussing this anymore, unless scenarios are given that are clearing defined. For example, I gave this clearly defined scenario:
"You get a CO of 45, and a FE of 10. On a similar range TID detector without dual numerical displays, the ID would alternate between 45 and 10. So, both detectors show the same thing...and most importantly, the dig/no dig decision would be the same on both detectors.
With that said, my whole point was about the Manticore's 2D display.
Diga
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-10 or 10. It doesn't matter. The point is, some number or other identifier is given to indicate ferrous.
In your Legend scenario, I would say co-located ferrous and nonferrous. I would dig.
Or it could be one mixed ferrous/non ferrous target. The Manticore 2D screen may show you which of those two possibilities it is.
Diga
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Yes it -could- be iron falsing. However, in my experience, iron falsing on the Legend typically produces numerous bars on the ferrous side of FC, and very little (if any) bars on the nonferrous side.
Show me . sube
I'm not Tyler but here you go sube........This is a link to a "guess what the target is" video that I just made between the Legend and Manticore. Use the IDs, tones, Ferro Check and 2D screen to help you. My bad for getting some target names wrong and I can't count..... feeling sick today so enjoy the live video, one take bloopers.
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Hmm. Following along here.
Which one is better? Hmm
I have done videos showing Manticore can INDEED expose lower conductors ring and coin shaped (I.e. Nickels, gold rings etc.)… when these objects are laying besides a nail. Manticore coil can be swept down barrel of nail and alert user. There is some degree of 3d ops here too meaning nail and nonferrous can be somewhat on differing planes.
Try this with EQX series Minelab models! See what happens. Won’t be happening!!
Sports fields, old site with iron this can help a user sniff out some finds. Ups their odds of locating.
I’ll give one way to run Manticore to see this behavior.
Run ATLC. Select custom upper ferrous limits. Open upper ferrous limits st ID segment starting at 68 open to the top. And extend to the end of ID scale if you wish.
Sweep small gold ring laying beside nail and watch what happen.
Note where gold ring reports. Remove gold ring s d note where nail reports. And note audio given on both scenarios.
I have tested this in detail. It works. It even works in some real high older iron sites in my area.
Cheers.
Summary.
The ole sharpshooter could indeed using Manticore locate a gold ring, etc by a nail hunting behind EQX any model user and they could miss. Meaning with horseshoe ON they would hear iron tone only, with horseshoe OFF they would hear nothing!
And if you compared models - the EQX and Manticore being run more conventionally setup one would not see this DIFFERENCE, hence be none the wiser. This behavior the EQX would yield is more in line with what all other detectors would yield using 11” coils. Even the DEUS 2 run conventionally.
Go see how hard it is to find a piece(s)of iron or nails that reads 68 or higher on Manticore using ATLC. It’s tough to do.
Which one is better? Hmm
I have done videos showing Manticore can INDEED expose lower conductors ring and coin shaped (I.e. Nickels, gold rings etc.)… when these objects are laying besides a nail. Manticore coil can be swept down barrel of nail and alert user. There is some degree of 3d ops here too meaning nail and nonferrous can be somewhat on differing planes.
Try this with EQX series Minelab models! See what happens. Won’t be happening!!
Sports fields, old site with iron this can help a user sniff out some finds. Ups their odds of locating.
I’ll give one way to run Manticore to see this behavior.
Run ATLC. Select custom upper ferrous limits. Open upper ferrous limits st ID segment starting at 68 open to the top. And extend to the end of ID scale if you wish.
Sweep small gold ring laying beside nail and watch what happen.
Note where gold ring reports. Remove gold ring s d note where nail reports. And note audio given on both scenarios.
I have tested this in detail. It works. It even works in some real high older iron sites in my area.
Cheers.
Summary.
The ole sharpshooter could indeed using Manticore locate a gold ring, etc by a nail hunting behind EQX any model user and they could miss. Meaning with horseshoe ON they would hear iron tone only, with horseshoe OFF they would hear nothing!
And if you compared models - the EQX and Manticore being run more conventionally setup one would not see this DIFFERENCE, hence be none the wiser. This behavior the EQX would yield is more in line with what all other detectors would yield using 11” coils. Even the DEUS 2 run conventionally.
Go see how hard it is to find a piece(s)of iron or nails that reads 68 or higher on Manticore using ATLC. It’s tough to do.
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Cherry Picker
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Good to see at least people looking for a difference. I know it is there, logic says it is, you just need to be willing to look for it.
Diga
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Any metal detector could hit that ring, provided that the iron bias has enough low end range. Put another way, if what you're saying is true, I'd bet that if the engineers lowered the IB on the Nox, it would hit that ring.
The engineers can make the IB go as low as they want. They can then put the ring and nail on a box, and proclaim how well there detector hits the ring. Heck, they could even lower the IB so much, that most nails would start to identify as nonferrous...and that is the caveat. In other words, everything looks great in the controlled test above the ground, but once in the field, such a low IB would introduce excessive iron falsing.
I don't believe anyone with much experience actually using it would agree with you. There are a whole range of "88's". The big numbers just tell you it's one of them. Not which one.
- Dave
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Diga,
Take your EQX 900 and try to get audio telling you gold ring is there, and remove ring and get iron tone. Any settings you choose. See what happens. Think I know.
Btw.
I just put up 2 videos on this subject should you want to watch.
Ferrous limits (Iron bias) adjustability different on Manticore vs EQX line.
I see your comment about possible iron falsing that could result. Well. I have had Manticore in multiple sites. Older. Lots of iron. It works. I even got out some large garden implements, as heads, hammers, sledge hammer heads. The only thing I could get Manticore to alert on was a hammer head. Sweeping the claw portion. Not bad if you ask me.
Unit performed nicely in the older sites.
Keep in mind what I said about this initially here is using stock coil. Use of smaller M8 coil user needs to delay opening up upper ferrous limits to 71/72.
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Diga
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I agree TNS.
That's why I said if the engineers lowered the IB on the Nox, it would hit that ring.
No, ferrous limits on manticore are adjustable for ID of iron/ferrous. Unlike EQX line. Basically EQX upper ferrous works more like Manticore using the preset ferrous limits. Meaning limits are straight across the board. Whole ID scale.
And this is why the EQX line won’t pass go in the tests I show vs Manticore.
Diga
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The Nox is detecting the ring. It's just not giving a nonferrous response, because not enough of the nail's ferrous signal is being filtered out to allow the nonferrous signal of the ring to come through. So hypothetically, if Minelab introduced a Nox update that further opened up the lower end of the IB, then the Nox would produce a nonferrous and ferrous signal on the ring and nail.
Do you agree or disagree with that? Why or why not?
Think it has more to do with method Minelab gave user to alter Manticore reporting. With ID rising when ring shaped, coin shaped button shaped lower conductor is beside nail. Vs solo nail. DEUS 2 works backwards. But Manticore not much ferrous will read for example above 68 using ATLC. DEUS 2 though much more ferrous can read 01/02 for ID.
I have looked at Manticore a whole lot. EQX 800 too. And DEUS 2.
He'll have to buy one first.
Nice video Jim I would not know which to dig with the legend but the manticore is showing me which one to dig By screen should be obvious unlike the legend .
The manticore took some of it's dna from the CTX and improved on it the CTX would show down the barrel but without tone target trace would display but being mixed with iron would ID wrong just as the manticore does . The one thing I did not like about the manticore was that you could not build a target in pinpoint like the CTX and leave on the screen .
TSS even though the manticore can tone on down the barrel nickel ring could also be can slaw pull-tab screw cap foil and ect. may work in a relic site but just dig all non-ferrous would work to.
Now in a park or fairgrounds it's not practical .
Have a ? for Diga on a hard false such as a 90 degree nail that high tones either way you sweep it where do the bars run fc or nf ;
More than likely it will be nf I don't consider a bottle cap a hard false there are two falses the one under a coil the double false and the throw en false of the end of a nail or iron that is not under the coil . These are hard falses that changing IB will do nothing because they are a non-ferrous returns even though they are ferrous . If you got rid of these falses you would get rid of all non-ferrous returns from penny up . sube
The manticore took some of it's dna from the CTX and improved on it the CTX would show down the barrel but without tone target trace would display but being mixed with iron would ID wrong just as the manticore does . The one thing I did not like about the manticore was that you could not build a target in pinpoint like the CTX and leave on the screen .
TSS even though the manticore can tone on down the barrel nickel ring could also be can slaw pull-tab screw cap foil and ect. may work in a relic site but just dig all non-ferrous would work to.
Now in a park or fairgrounds it's not practical .
Have a ? for Diga on a hard false such as a 90 degree nail that high tones either way you sweep it where do the bars run fc or nf ;
More than likely it will be nf I don't consider a bottle cap a hard false there are two falses the one under a coil the double false and the throw en false of the end of a nail or iron that is not under the coil . These are hard falses that changing IB will do nothing because they are a non-ferrous returns even though they are ferrous . If you got rid of these falses you would get rid of all non-ferrous returns from penny up . sube
