Proving to myself which is better 900 or Manticore

[Diga]

When you buy there next machine past speaks for itself . sube

If I ever do buy another machine, it would be a D2 with the 9" coil. Not that it's going to happen though. I made a commitment to stop buying detectors, unless a new detector comes out that can tell the difference between aluminum and gold. Anything less than that...is just "meh" to me.

 

[Cherry Picker]

If I ever do buy another machine, it would be a D2 with the 9" coil. Not that it's going to happen though. I made a commitment to stop buying detectors, unless a new detector comes out that can tell the difference between aluminum and gold. Anything less than that...is just "meh" to me.

Could be a long wait Diga.

I can't afford to chase that dream anymore, but I had a blast while I could.

I had a D2 with the 9". Killer tot lot detector.

 

[Diga]

Could be a long wait Diga.

Yep. Probably not going to happen in my lifetime. It would take a completely different technology than induction balance.

 

[sube]

Screen trace can be erased by push of button (part of Manticore latest update). Clear ID map soft key option.
See icon lower right corner of my detector in pic.

Thanks for the update on the update did not know seems strange they did not include that when the machine was released . sube

 

[tnsharpshooter]

Hmm.
I have edited this post. I need a gold ring that IDs in 20s and 30s to do more testing.

 

[tnsharpshooter]

Thanks for the update on the update did not know seems strange they did not include that when the machine was released . sube

You are welcome.
This function though won’t work using pinpoint. Not that it matters.

 

[matt93]

Screen trace can be erased by push of button (part of Manticore latest update). Clear ID map soft key option.
See icon lower right corner of my detector in pic.

Thanks for this info…I was certainly not aware of it.
The target trace in my couple hundred hours of using the Manticore is simply another tool in the box to help me determine whether or not I’m going to dig…what I have found is that at least 50 percent of the time if I completely let the machine forget about the target and then go over it again the trace will be more accurate than the first go round. I don’t know why that is other than maybe the machine is getting an electrical better “sniff” at said target. Typically if it’s a commingled nonferrous target located near a ferrous item, when I recheck the hole there will be a “good” target located somewhere either in the plug or more than likely under the “bad” target. I’ve began using this method more and more lately when swinging the Manti and the results have been much better.

 

[tnsharpshooter]

Thanks for this info…I was certainly not aware of it.
The target trace in my couple hundred hours of using the Manticore is simply another tool in the box to help me determine whether or not I’m going to dig…what I have found is that at least 50 percent of the time if I completely let the machine forget about the target and then go over it again the trace will be more accurate than the first go round. I don’t know why that is other than maybe the machine is getting an electrical better “sniff” at said target. Typically if it’s a commingled nonferrous target located near a ferrous item, when I recheck the hole there will be a “good” target located somewhere either in the plug or more than likely under the “bad” target. I’ve began using this method more and more lately when swinging the Manti and the results have been much better.

You are welcome.

 

[tnsharpshooter]

So does Manticore the tone provided (pitch) and or ID given. Is this the same (indication) as given in target trace necessarily?
Nope.
One simple test I showed via video shows this.
Audio pitch nor numerical ID mirrored what target trace info was displayed. Target trace gave more actual truthful info to the entire detecting scenario.
So myth buster alert for some here who think they know what target trace does on Manticore.

 

[sube]

So does Manticore the tone provided (pitch) and or ID given. Is this the same (indication) as given in target trace necessarily?
Nope.
One simple test I showed via video shows this.
Audio pitch nor numerical ID mirrored what target trace info was displayed. Target trace gave more actual truthful info to the entire detecting scenario.
So myth buster alert for some here who think they know what target trace does on Manticore.

When I got my CTX in 2012 I asked Randy Horton who was a tester at the time about TT . He told me TT work as one with the audio but was separate . Yet the CTX has 2 cursors that could be both non-ferrous or both ferrous as in the bottom of the screen in the ferrous bin .
They also had the ability to tell how hard the iron was hitting blue orange red and a hard iron would be a diamond or a double diamond in the iron bin . Non-ferrous was similar but a hard non-ferrous was a red cursor to a square block meaning very hard non-ferrous . To keep you from guessing from iron or non-ferrous .
Since the CTX had 2 cursors it could only plot at that rate .
Now the manti can plot on the nonferrous line top ferrous line and bottom ferrous line so how is the plotting done without cursors or is it with cursors seeing that it will smear as the CTX does from one line to the other . sube

 

[tnsharpshooter]

When I got my CTX in 2012 I asked Randy Horton who was a tester at the time about TT . He told me TT work as one with the audio but was separate . Yet the CTX has 2 cursors that could be both non-ferrous or both ferrous as in the bottom of the screen in the ferrous bin .
They also had the ability to tell how hard the iron was hitting blue orange red and a hard iron would be a diamond or a double diamond in the iron bin . Non-ferrous was similar but a hard non-ferrous was a red cursor to a square block meaning very hard non-ferrous . To keep you from guessing from iron or non-ferrous .
Since the CTX had 2 cursors it could only plot at that rate .
Now the manti can plot on the nonferrous line top ferrous line and bottom ferrous line so how is the plotting done without cursors or is it with cursors seeing that it will smear as the CTX does from one line to the other . sube

It does what it does. Without cursors. Also the transition between targets of mixed conductivity can give some sort of presentation. Acts like trace is giving in more real time what the detector is actually sensing as coil is moved. Numeric ID don’t seem to be able to do. Or if it is doing - the numbers are changing so fast the human eye can’t see. I tend to think the former though.

 

[sube]

Getting on topic we can see the manticore can display what we cannot hear as to the 900 .
Kind of like a boxing match where one fighter does a combo so fast the reporter can't keep up sometimes you can't even follow with your eyes .
But they slow it down and you say so that's what happened now the screen on the manti will do that all those sounds all garbled together basically going to white noise . You may be able to hear 10 tones a second but anymore and it's just noise .
But each tone is show en on screen for you to see so you can make a choice .
CTX will do the same pull-tab and quarter 3 inches apart it will travel on the non-ferrous line from tab to quarter there will be 100s of hash marks in between
you never hear . You will be able to tell what side each target is on .

I watched Davids video on the pull-tab elevated above the quarter showing the targets separated on the screen which the CTX could not do as clearly they were always tied together by TT I have tested this or e-trac deus 2 but the manti achieved this a plus anyway you look at it . A small advancement .
If someone was going to be able to separate a non-ferrous target from a non-ferrous target the CTX was almost there but not quite the manti did it

Now back to reality if we change that quarter to a dime or put the quarter to 4 inches will it succeed .
Real hunting involves pull-tabs at surface to 5 inches and good coins silver indians at 7 plus the tabs will always be shallower accept in turned dirt .

All detectors suffer from skewed IDS from iron , nail can ID as anything non-ferrous .
ferrous a different sweep a different ID this is why I don't think they can get a ID as stable. Compared to a non-ferrous target sweep all the way around a coin pull-tab the id stays very constant easier to separate a stable known ID from one or the other .
I would love to see that manti hold that separation and ID between the quarter and pull-tab farther apart up and down but I have a feeling bigger return is going to win . Deeper quarter or change to a dime . sube

 

[Cherry Picker]

Getting on topic we can see the manticore can display what we cannot hear as to the 900 .
Kind of like a boxing match where one fighter does a combo so fast the reporter can't keep up sometimes you can't even follow with your eyes .
But they slow it down and you say so that's what happened now the screen on the manti will do that all those sounds all garbled together basically going to white noise . You may be able to hear 10 tones a second but anymore and it's just noise .
But each tone is show en on screen for you to see so you can make a choice .
CTX will do the same pull-tab and quarter 3 inches apart it will travel on the non-ferrous line from tab to quarter there will be 100s of hash marks in between
you never hear . You will be able to tell what side each target is on .

I watched Davids video on the pull-tab elevated above the quarter showing the targets separated on the screen which the CTX could not do as clearly they were always tied together by TT I have tested this or e-trac deus 2 but the manti achieved this a plus anyway you look at it . A small advancement .
If someone was going to be able to separate a non-ferrous target from a non-ferrous target the CTX was almost there but not quite the manti did it

Now back to reality if we change that quarter to a dime or put the quarter to 4 inches will it succeed .
Real hunting involves pull-tabs at surface to 5 inches and good coins silver indians at 7 plus the tabs will always be shallower accept in turned dirt .

All detectors suffer from skewed IDS from iron , nail can ID as anything non-ferrous .
ferrous a different sweep a different ID this is why I don't think they can get a ID as stable. Compared to a non-ferrous target sweep all the way around a coin pull-tab the id stays very constant easier to separate a stable known ID from one or the other .
I would love to see that manti hold that separation and ID between the quarter and pull-tab farther apart up and down but I have a feeling bigger return is going to win . Deeper quarter or change to a dime . sube

Agreed.

A VDI number changes every time you swing, in most cases, while the TT/2D screen will build a pattern that you can see. I believe this added bit of target info can be very useful if understood and used enough to become familiar with it.

 

[jmaclen]

I use 5 tone bins when I am coin and jewelry hunting in thick modern trash. I accept all target IDs so no notching or rejecting iron when I was using the 900 and now with the Manticore. It's just easier on my ears, I get an immediate idea about the general conductivity of the targets based on tone pitch and I don't have to look at the screen as much.

For me, the least accurate target identification function on the Manticore and especially the 900 with their much expanded target ID system compared to the 600/800 and Legend is the actual numeric target IDs especially for targets in the 55 to 85 or so target ID range using Manticore ATG and 900 Park 1.

So, I question whether target trace is based solely on the target ID value or does Target Trace also use the audio response. It is possible to have audio responses on the Manticore with no target ID shown on the display. That has happened a couple of times so far that I have noticed. I failed to look at Target Trace when that happened. I will pay closer attention to that the next time it happens.

 

[sube]

I use 5 tone bins when I am coin and jewelry hunting in thick modern trash. I accept all target IDs so no notching or rejecting iron when I was using the 900 and now with the Manticore. It's just easier on my ears, I get an immediate idea about the general conductivity of the targets based on tone pitch and I don't have to look at the screen as much.

For me, the least accurate target identification function on the Manticore and especially the 900 with their much expanded target ID system compared to the 600/800 and Legend is the actual numeric target IDs especially for targets in the 55 to 85 or so target ID range using Manticore ATG and 900 Park 1.

So, I question whether target trace is based solely on the target ID value or does Target Trace also use the audio response. It is possible to have audio responses on the Manticore with no target ID shown on the display. That has happened a couple of times so far that I have noticed. I failed to look at Target Trace when that happened. I will pay closer attention to that the next time it happens.

When I got my CTX in 2012 I asked Randy Horton who was a tester at the time about TT . He told me TT work as one with the audio but was separate .
Kind of a vague statement leaves one to wonder what's going on maybe what he was allow to say at the time .
I don't think anything has changed but may have been improved .
You can't play 2 tones at once or 3 or 4 but you can make as many digital hash marks as you want but you can't hear them but you can see them . ?
On the CTX you could have a trace and ID without audio . Opposite of what you are saying .sube

 

[Cherry Picker]

When I got my CTX in 2012 I asked Randy Horton who was a tester at the time about TT . He told me TT work as one with the audio but was separate .
Kind of a vague statement leaves one to wonder what's going on maybe what he was allow to say at the time .
I don't think anything has changed but may have been improved .
You can't play 2 tones at once or 3 or 4 but you can make as many digital hash marks as you want but you can't hear them but you can see them . ?
On the CTX you could have a trace and ID without audio . Opposite of what you are saying .sube

I've often wondered. Does that 2D screen data come from the audio circuitry or a different source that gives different data? If it comes from just converting the audio data to a number, then no big gain. If the data comes from a source not being first processed by the audio circuits, then it could be very useful.

 

[Magicmantx]

Been awhile since I've updated and followed up on comments. I used the Manticore for a full month and got to take it with me to a seeded/non seeded hunt up in Missouri. I used my 900 on the first day and did fairly well. Most seeded items were buried 3" or less so just about any detector would have found them. This hunt was done in an area that had past CW Skirmishes and I was able to find 3 round balls 1 fired and 2 dropped as well as a fired pistol ball. I then found a pulled 58 cal 3 ringer about 8" deep . Next I finally found what I have been hoping for for a long time a dropped 69cal 3 ringer at close to a foot deep. I also found a few seeded foreign coins, a merc, 2 tokens and a few misc pieces or un identified steel. The next day I started with the Manticore and was having a bit of a problem with stability and getting steady tones on my targets that were deeper than the seeded items and even those were giving me some trouble. I honestly think this was operator error by not being as familiar with the manticore as I am my 900 which I am very very familiar with and can quickly adjust on the fly . I did ok with it but felt I was wasting a lot of valuable time so I switched back to my 900 and finished out the day. After returning home I went back to the areas I have been to many times and have hunted numerous times. After playing around with some of the settings that I had not used before I began to find additional coins in areas I believed were pretty well covered before by both the 900 and the Manticore. So I'll give the Manticore credit for sniffing out extra stuff . I really believe that it is possible with enough time you could possibly find a bit more than with the others . So back to the original question is it worth spending an additional 600$ to find a small amount of items. Well if one of those small items is rare or valuable I guess you could say so. The biggest benefit I see is the amount of extra adjustability that is available. Now here's the real curve ball. With the current sale price of $1199 which is VERY close to what I paid for my 900 and today price difference is 200$ not considering still get an additional coil with the 900. If I was in the market today I'd absolutely go for the Manticore. In fact I may add to the fleet. This has been a fun experiment and pretty much came out how I expected. The number 1 reason for alot of the differences people see is experience with any particular machine will shine over a less experienced user regardless of how well the machine CAN preform. Thanks everyone for following the thread and the informative conversations that strayed a bit at times lol as they nearly always do. Everyone keep swinging and finding those awesome relics and coins.

 

[tnsharpshooter]

I've often wondered. Does that 2D screen data come from the audio circuitry or a different source that gives different data? If it comes from just converting the audio data to a number, then no big gain. If the data comes from a source not being first processed by the audio circuits, then it could be very useful.

I can’t answer your question. I can say 2 d trace will lot of times show flat iron (bottom area of screen. Yeah you can get audio and see this. I got a bud. He likes the screen. He is developing nicely with the unit.
Here’s something useful with 2 d screen. Some folks may not know.
Let’s say you are getting an 80s in screen. Trace dot is fainter vs bolder. This can indicate 1 of 2 things generally. Masking or deeper. Remember one does have depth meter. One can start connecting the dots - signal, signal strength, trace behavior, trace intensity, etc.

 

[bottlecap4u]

Been using an 800 for the past 3 years, just got my manticore, probably put in 20 hours so far, watched alot of videos before I tried it out, very helpful. I use General All Terrain but saved High Conductors on one of my 3 save buttons, and ran that all day today, very sensitive to lead, but the display screen isn't fooled, large smear or blob, and even get a few 360 degree turns even on large nails but watch the screen as these appear above or below the conductor line off into the iron grids, so the machine isn't fooled, dig a few, you'll see. High Conductors drains the battery a bit more but ups the processing speed so it's pretty sensitive and is a silver sniper (so its marketed), might want to keep the recovery at 3 to get depth when you run it.