Hockey puck theory

It's not a theory, but detector producers more then once confirmed that a detector performs "best" with his original coil while that is were the detector (box) is adjusted on.

Of course another coil can have more benefits were it finds deeper, or smaller ... and be "better" (for you).
But the detector (box) performs best with the original manufactory coil.

I never buy "bigger better" coils. I always hunt with the manufactory coil (even 8 inch). And i always found nice, good enough, never less or worse then my huntingbuddies (among some with the "best" detector and coils).
 
If you don't mind, 'beest', let me clarify the statements you made.


It's not a theory, but detector producers more then once confirmed that a detector performs "best" with his original coil while that is were the detector (box) is adjusted on.
Actually, that is incorrect if applied as a whole. A metal detector AND coil combination will perform 'best' if they are designed well, properly adjusted, and are able to handle different search site conditions better.

FACT: Some search coil 'sizes' and/or search coil 'types' might NOT work well if they are not a good match for the existing site conditions. Site conditions include the Ground Mineral make-up as well as the amount of, and proximity of, discarded trash and desirable targets.

FACT: Some search coils might be a proper size and shape and type, but the detector they are used with might not be well designed to handle more challenging trash, such as too much junk close-together or a lot of Iron Nails or other nearby ferrous debris.

Now, let's go back to "proper settings." generally the operator has control of such things as Sensitivity and Discrimination. But your statement really applies to metal detectors that rely on a factory designed or preset Ground Balance. The so-called "turn-on-and-go" detectors where the operator doesn't have easy control of the GB setting which has been 'preset' in design or at the factory prior to shipping.

Ground Balance is an often less-understood adjustment function by most metal detecting Hobbyists, and back in the early to mid '80s we saw a big trend for many detector manufacturers to product more 'preset GB' models then the more controllable units with an Automated GB or Manual GB.

EXAMPLE: Because they have been so well known, let me refer to a Tesoro Silver Sabre model. It is an easy-to-use detector and they came with an internally 'preset' Ground balance. That was done at the factory in final production when the employee hooked up a 'standard' search coils and 'calibrated' it. "Calibration' was the term meaning adjusted the internal Ground balance. Then, tht specific detector was then shipped with that specific search coils and was 'calibrated' of Ground Balanced with that coil. The GB was done, typically, using a piece of ferrite.

THE GOOD NEWS: That specific detectors with that 'standard' search coils that came with it were 'tuned' or 'calibrated' so that they would work OK in most 'typical' or possibly 'average' ground mineral environments w/o falsing.

THE BAD NEWS: The detector user might select a hunt siste that has more intense mineralization and the "turn-on-and-go" detector with a preset GB might not be able to handle it, and that can also cause false signals.

Another problem could be the user wanted to change to a larger-size search coil, or a smaller-size search coil, ... or even change to a different but same-size search coil and that particular coil was not first 'calibrated' or 'tuned' to the detector and the result was maybe a too-negative the GB or a too-positive GB. In some cases that could cause falsing, a loss of detection depth, or even be so positive with that coil that the detector will not respond to a bigger-size high-conductive coin.


Of course another coil can have more benefits were it finds deeper, or smaller ... and be "better" (for you).
But the detector (box) performs best with the original manufactory coil.
All that was implied what that the system control box and the originally supplied search coils should have been properly 'tuned' or 'Ground Balanced' or average search conditions.

In my current Detector Outfit, I only have three models that lack an external Ground Balance control, and in one case, my Tesoro Silver Sabre microMAX, I keep a 6" diameter Concentric coil mounted to it 'full-time' so I am not changing search coils. And, I made sure it was properly 'calibrated' as I have all my "turn-on-and-go" detectors by adjusting the internal GB trimmer for the more mineralized ground where I will grab it for use.

My Tesoro Bandido II microMAX also keeps a 6" Concentric coil mounted, but I do have a 'standard' 8" Concentric coil on-hand, but that doesn't matter. The Bandido II microMAX features an external manual Ground Balance so I can properly 'tune' or 'calibrate that unit' system box and the attached search coil for whatever the existing conditions might be, and THAT will provide me the 'best' or peak performance and be better than a factory calibrated 'best guess' setting.


I never buy "bigger better" coils. I always hunt with the manufactory coil (even 8 inch). And i always found nice, good enough, never less or worse then my huntingbuddies (among some with the "best" detector and coils).
As long as YOU are satisfied with the detector's performance and the results you achieve, then that's fine. But I can assure you, most detectors that are sold are NOT going to provide the 'BEST' performance all-around. Actually, with the trend the past several years to keep offering a bigger-size coil on even the lower-end models, those detectors with a supplied coil are going to operate worse than 'normal' simply because the 'standard' coil is now too large to work well in confined spaces or amongst a lot of discarded trash.

That's why I prefer and recommend a serious detector operator invest in a better designed or more controlled model that provides Ground Balance control.

Monte
 
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And a PS to my above post:

We still don't always have full-control of the Ground Balance setting in the search modes we use. Sadly, too many makes and models are offered that might have a Manual or Automated Ground Balance adjustment, but it only functions in the Threshold-based All Metal mode. The Discriminate search modes often have the Ground Balance preset or slightly controlled using a different internal GB trimmer, or how they designed an Disc. mode 'offset' from the manual GB All Metal mode setting. Or, on modern digital detectors, it is done 'in software' and that can have its limits or leave us frustrated because there isn't a 'proper' GB for the search mode in use.

Monte
 
Back in the 1980's when I got into this hobby I bought a "sniper" type coil for my White's 6000di. I soon considered it a waste of time and money and will not be wasting time or money again on a sniper/hockey puck. Companies market their items in order to get you to buy them....more stuff sold...better bottom line.
 
Back in the 1980's when I got into this hobby I bought a "sniper" type coil for my White's 6000di. I soon considered it a waste of time and money and will not be wasting time or money again on a sniper/hockey puck. Companies market their items in order to get you to buy them....more stuff sold...better bottom line.

Well, "back in the 1980s" White's didn't have a decent detector in their line-up that was a slow-motion / quick-response type to make efficient use of the smaller-size 4½" "hockey puck" type coil. After they contracted with Wm. 'Bill' Lahr to design the Coinmaster Classic series, they then had a good detector for the tinier coil which could be used effectively in very dense trash or building rubble or hunting close to metal structures.

Yes, sometimes a company will market an item or two that seems impractical with more of an intent just to make $$$$ by selling something that isn't needed.. But not all companies do that. It is a cost for them, too, so the savvy detector company will offer search coils that the consumers want ... or at least they should do that ... and I can guarantee you there is a demand for smaller-size search coils. Personally, I feel there is more real need or demand for smaller-size coils than there is for larger-size coils, and I've favored smaller coils for the bulk of the 55 years I've been enjoying this great sport.

I use an assortment of detector brands and models and also an assortment of coils that I keep mounted because they serve certain purposes well. It's because they work and because that's what I want ... not because a manufacturer offers it for profit.

Monte
 
Well, "back in the 1980s" White's didn't have a decent detector in their line-up that was a slow-motion / quick-response type to make efficient use of the smaller-size 4½" "hockey puck" type coil. After they contracted with Wm. 'Bill' Lahr to design the Coinmaster Classic series, they then had a good detector for the tinier coil which could be used effectively in very dense trash or building rubble or hunting close to metal structures.

Yes, sometimes a company will market an item or two that seems impractical with more of an intent just to make $$$$ by selling something that isn't needed.. But not all companies do that. It is a cost for them, too, so the savvy detector company will offer search coils that the consumers want ... or at least they should do that ... and I can guarantee you there is a demand for smaller-size search coils. Personally, I feel there is more real need or demand for smaller-size coils than there is for larger-size coils, and I've favored smaller coils for the bulk of the 55 years I've been enjoying this great sport.

I use an assortment of detector brands and models and also an assortment of coils that I keep mounted because they serve certain purposes well. It's because they work and because that's what I want ... not because a manufacturer offers it for profit.

Monte

Well put!
 
If you don't mind, 'beest', let me clarify the statements you made.

Not my statements Moote. :D But from the detector manufacturers.
Not always correct indeed and it was brought flat, but in general this is what they (the manufacturers) say about it (not me).

Settings are not only made by the one using the detector. A detector also has internal settings. Is internally adjusted at it's production, specific for the coil underneath it at that moment (the original included one).
Those internal settings are not fitted exactly for other coils. If you want those to work at max performances you need to let the box be adjusted again internally for that specific coil.

Ask any detector repair specialist or the manufacturers if you want.
Dig into it if this subject interests you. ;)
 
Still thinking this entire debate is situational at best.

If your desired target is beyond the reach of a small coil, the small coil wont work. If you have too many targets under a larger coil that skews the identification fo the good target, the large coil won't work.

On each swing, you may encounter either one of the former situations and the next swing you could find the latter. The only true way is to officially work the site with both coils, and under different ground conditions.

For all but one (recently aquired) my current machines I have a larger than stock and a smaller than stock coil. I generally walk into a newer sight with a stock coil to either "check" or "test" the sight, then adjust my coil size accordingly.
 
Small Coils Can:

-hunt in tight places
-most accurate ID
-greater sensitivity to tiny targets
-greatest sensitivity to all targets
-fastest swing speed
-passes most silly nail tests
-best separation
-lightest
-best tot lot coil
-best nugget shooter coil
-able to get closest to fences, play equipment, iron rebar
-able to accept highest sensitivity in settings
-least expensive
-best trash area hunter
-most under - rated coil!


This is where I’m at, except I can’t vouch for gold hunting lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Now that I finished the thread I wish I never stepped in lol, my opinion hasn’t changed but... wow, this thread. Comparing today to the 80s? Saying only 1 coil works for a machine? Maybe in the 80s. These things are computers now. With multiple programs just like your phone.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I put the 6” Nox coil on this afternoon and hit a site that I had been thru with the Nox 11” and the F75 with the Nel sharpshooter and found a clad quarter and zincoln. I may have passed on the penny before but the quarter was mixed in with a bunch of signals. It rang up 27-28 so I thought it was a dime since all the quarters I dug last week were 30+. Target down-averaging I assume. Since the stay near home order continues, I may just keep the 6” on all week and see what turns up.
 
Glad your liking it.

Were you in parks or private permissions?

I think no matter what we use, we always feel we will be missing something. I need to pull the 6" out for my 3030 again, while the soil is still damp.
 
I was at a park in Mineral Point. I dug a ‘23 quarter there last summer so I thought it would be a good spot to try again. Not as trashy as most parks, but enough can slaw that I tend to ignore most signals under 19 on the Nox. I have a loose plan for this week of stay-near-home, socially-distant detecting. I have a 50 acre burn to fit in, but that’s all I’ve got to do work wise since all my burn permits were cancelled due to the pandemic.
 
Okay, so I've only had one chance to detect this week, today after a burn. I had got annoyed with the amount of iron at the site a week or two ago, but since I was going to stay for some time after my burn, I took out the Nox with the 6" coil. It took a bit to get my focus, given all the iron signals, but I finally got in the groove and found a few good signals among all the trash.

I found 1 silver Merc, 40, 5 Wheats, 4 memorials, 1 key, and a pocket watch with the face missing. One of the wheats was quite masked and the signal response was very small, so maybe there's more value in this coil than casually meets the eye. I'm going to keep at it since I have completed all the burns that I can legally implement.

And our stay-at-home order was extended thru May 26th. Since the pocket change I'm finding is technically income, that makes me a Professional Metal Detectorist! It's right up there with Professional Bigfoot Hunter!!!
 
I usually take my 5 3/4” Compadre with me as a backup especially if I’ll be detecting a trashy area. I’ve considered getting a 5 3/4” for my Tejon and imagine it would go deeper but it’s pretty convenient to just grab the Compadre rather than change coils.
 
Update: I got out yesterday for a couple of hours and decided to try the 6" Nox on a curb strip next to a cemetery. It's on the main route to the fairgrounds and I figured it would hammered out over the years. I did find a '46 silver Rosie, which was the highlight of the hunt. I found 19 other coins, all modern for a total of $1.12

This trip reminded me why I prefer hunting private property: had a lady walk past with her little dog, giving me the stink-eye. I swear, if you were to ask these people for spare change, they'd call you a bum and tell you to work for it; work hard for your change and they think you're getting rich and stealing the community treasures...

JP
 
I will jump in here with my experience with my Equinox 800 and the stock, 6" and 15" coil.

With the 800 the coil size determines at any one time what is under your coil that can be detected.

So as far as the 6" coil not being good at unmasking targets I don't think that is correct. A smaller DD coil you basically have a narrow strip that is six inches long from front to back that does the detecting.

On the 800 the recovery speed, sensitivity and iron balance are the main functions that affect unmasking abilities. Thus if you swing over an 6" deep silver dime that is say below and 7" inches to the side of a rusty nail then the 15" and 11" coil will more likely see both targets and have some difficulty seeing the dime if the recovery speed, iron balance and sensitivity are not set properly. The 6" coil will add an advantage because of a smaller coil foot print and doing the 90 degree cross check should reveal the dime.

I have been told that the smaller the coil the better it is at getting in between masked targets than larger coil. I know if I take my 15" coil to my very trashy park, and don't discriminate, the many signals almost sound like EMI.

If I use the 6" coil, the detector quiets down because the 6" coil is over less trash on each swing compared to the 15" or 11" coil.

Anyone correct me if I am wrong, since I don't wish to be using the wrong coil theory on my hunts. My 6" is coil is used for trashy areas and areas where I need to get in between rocks and bunches of brush and small trees or around tot log equipment or close to chain link fences.
 
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