Fisher Impulse AQ detector update

[lytle78]

KOB

You wrote “ Another thing I think Rick said was this won't work good IN the water. So what the heck is that about ?

If you are talking about the iron tone/mute ID function, as far as I know - water depth has nothing to do with it.

It may be you are thinking about the fact that all PI detectors will “see” the volume of salt water as it is increased by depth. Some folks her have therefore concluded that there is no way the AQ can be run at a shorter pulse delay in water (even shallow) than the 10mS or so that are the limit for a well tuned TDI. That is not the case. The effect of the salt water volume is to increase the noise level of the detector. The exact design of the system - coil, detector and all - have a very large influence on the performance, Not all PI’s are alike.

 

[Cfmct]

Now that Surfy , is an awesome reply and a comparison I would like to see. But why all metal for you guys ? Just because you need that depth ? An extra 10% or so ? I was under the impression that where you hunt is loaded with iron. Isn't that the reason why you bought it , to use in disc ? Another thing I think Rick said was this won't work good IN the water. So what the heck is that about ?

Who you asking here Rick... looks to me whomever will bite


I'll bite I hunt heavy iron, Earl does not he hunts deep sandy beaches... I do not... I am not a fresh drop hunter... I hunt spots I have researched over the years and yes they are loaded with iron and maybe black sand I'll post a picture of a magnet I used to use in my scoop...

I know my spots like the back of my hand and I know where I can and can't use a pulse...

Every video we have seen has been of wet sand hunting that is where the comments came from...

Did you hunt the water with the AQ? If not I will not ask you how it performs in the water.

 

[Surf Master]

KOB- reply

On my beaches its - all metal on my PI in the off season in replentishment sand , when the beaches are open your percentages , or chance's of finding quality finds go up, unless heavy iron is present , -this was the case year's ago when the OC peer came down in the storm -not the wright machine , if the AQ looses 10% depth in disc, just courious to see the comparison's against VLF unit's , Craig year's ago got me interested in the Surf PI DF , and still today is one of my favorate machine's , however in season fresh drop's, heavy iron, it's not the machine to run, so far on this thread NO real depth test's that i have seen in the field on the AQ, even with the proto type AQ , it's top secret , buy it find out is for my bro , OBN , and Sugar Sand Dew . Ill wait for REAL DEAL JOE to swing it, we will see, it won't take him long , i give him a week, than check if it's the AQ, or Excalibur he's swinging , happy hunting. PS. , ill kick back now and watch Adding , most of my hunts here are in the wet , very seldom dry sand hunt, havnt hunted water in a while, off season i like depth , in season i run the NOX wide open usually when i can , using sounds and the id screen . I like the VLFs , now we all just have to wait and see , one of the longest thread's since ive been here since 2009 is this one, with NO real time HOW GOOD IS IT , real time proof . All fantasy till released ! I would like a quality special gold machine to swing here as all of you know , I don't find much , it was tungsten , silver & clad in 2019 , no gold, but before I spend big bucks on a PI , it must prove itself now that the hype has been silenced by #1 the virus , #2 the economy , #3 not making it to our hands when expected , #4 a never ending thread based on hype with no real time action .

 

[dewcon]

Most of us have to admit we dont hunt with a PI because of all the iron we dont want to dig. We us the Xcal in PP mode yes...... but in REVERSE disc to eliminate targets like iron. Now if the AQ does the reverse disc for us and eliminates iron in its disc mode....... for the most part we'd be digging those non-ferr targets anyway..... be it bottle cap, pull tab or foil if its non-ferr. We dig the heck out of most anything non-ferr with the Nox.... so we are digging a LOT more than we used to because of its sensitivity. So if the AQ knocks out most iron..... i see a lot more of us picking them up for use if they get more depth or sensitivity. We may still be digging more trash just because we are hitting areas not now being detected if the depth reported is reality. Some of that would be non-ferr targets that VLFs now report as iron. However..... is the 12.5 coil to big? Unlike VLFs, PIs dont loose quit the depth based on coil size. But.... those big coils may require more adjusting in the water because it sees a LOT more material and salt water that a smaller one. Well unless the rules have changed. Another reason id like to see a 10" unless Fisher thinks a smaller coil would make it just an average PI. I think the big coil is way to much coil to be pushing around in the water personally.....and once adjustments are made there will be little advantage except coverage out there. Well....... again... unless the rules have changed.

 

[Cfmct]

Most of us have to admit we dont hunt with a PI because of all the iron we dont want to dig. We us the Xcal in PP mode yes...... but in REVERSE disc to eliminate targets like iron. Now if the AQ does the reverse disc for us and eliminates iron in its disc mode....... for the most part we'd be digging those non-ferr targets anyway..... be it bottle cap, pull tab or foil if its non-ferr. We dig the heck out of most anything non-ferr with the Nox.... so we are digging a LOT more than we used to because of its sensitivity. So if the AQ knocks out most iron..... i see a lot more of us picking them up for use if they get more depth or sensitivity. We may still be digging more trash just because we are hitting areas not now being detected if the depth reported is reality. Some of that would be non-ferr targets that VLFs now report as iron. However..... is the 12.5 coil to big? Unlike VLFs, PIs dont loose quit the depth based on coil size. But.... those big coils may require more adjusting in the water because it sees a LOT more material and salt water that a smaller one. Well unless the rules have changed. Another reason id like to see a 10" unless Fisher thinks a smaller coil would make it just an average PI. I think the big coil is way to much coil to be pushing around in the water personally.....and once adjustments are made there will be little advantage except coverage out there. Well....... again... unless the rules have changed.

You are assuming something I haven't seen yet... more depth... being a pulse hunter I have not seen any deep targets by my standards dug with the AQ yet...

The coil can be an issue...what I did with my DF was invert the coil to help in PPing... it wasn't so bad PPing with a large coil... What I don't like about the AQ coil is the wire in the front... good luck not ripping it out if it gets snagged around something in murky water...

Watching those video's was painful to be honest.. guy was missing targets i the side wall so it looked like he was digging deep stuff but wasn't actually... let him try digging like in the water and it will take him 15 minutes or more to find that he is chasing around in the crater...

I told Joe that where he hunts he is not going to see a big increase in gold targets... he hunts in sand/mud and shells like I do and when those targets hit the clay they stop...

 

[dewcon]

Now you are assuming Craig .... you don’t know yet what Joe might find. My assumption is simply based on what the Fisher testers are saying this machine will do. I agree thus far I’ve not seen a lot of the smalls we find with the current machines nor depth based on the videos. But that’s kind of a flip of the coin on any new machine until it’s out and proven one way or the other. Most of us don’t wait if a machine about to come out sounds good we buy. Ya the smarter ones may set back and wait. I guess we have gotten to accustomed to believing the hype..... but you know that’s what sells the machine initally

 

[Cfmct]

Now you are assuming Craig .... you don’t know yet what Joe might find. My assumption is simply based on what the Fisher testers are saying this machine will do. I agree thus far I’ve not seen a lot of the smalls we find with the current machines nor depth based on the videos. But that’s kind of a flip of the coin on any new machine until it’s out and proven one way or the other. Most of us don’t wait if a machine about to come out sounds good we buy. Ya the smarter ones may set back and wait. I guess we have gotten to accustomed to believing the hype..... but you know that’s what sells the machine initally

Yes its my opinion but I have watched Joe and the conditions he hunts in similar conditions with shells, mud, clay and sand...

People who are out there to make a profit are not going to say anything negative about the machine they are pushing...

 

[Bklein]

Rick,
Does the ability to sound off on the gold ring on top of the crisscrossed nails depend on a 6uS delay setting or is it independent of it? I can't figure out how it is accomplished in an analog design. It is way more important to me than going deeper or finding small earrings or fine chains.

 

[beachrumbum]

Rick,
Does the ability to sound off on the gold ring on top of the crisscrossed nails depend on a 6uS delay setting or is it independent of it? I can't figure out how it is accomplished in an analog design. It is way more important to me than going deeper or finding small earrings or fine chains.

I think that has to do with the ground balance circuitry, it is reading both conductors wave form and cut off point. So say you had the machine set to hear both conductive and non conductive targets you would get a mixed tone. When you cancel out iron then you only hear the tone for non conductive. At least this is how I understand it works with the tdi (in theory) because it is not fool proof but does work to an extent.

 

[lytle78]

In all metal the ring and the nails all give a high tone - all metallic targets do so.

In Multitone or mute (the discrimination modes) The nails are either a low tone or muted (depending on mode). The ring always gives a high tone. The sampling rate is so high on the AQ that Alexandre has coined the term “ZTS” to describe how it can effect a recovery speed of Zero - completely adjacent or even superimposed targets can be distinguished. Here’s what he wrote in an email to me a while back.

“In recent years, all metal detectors in the world have been competing for minimum recovery speed with varying degrees of success.
The tests performed by our competitors are often demonstrated on high conductors: coins in bronze or silver.

We are all convinced that it is interesting to find coins, but it is better to concentrate and find gold.

The IMPULSE Series is equipped with ZTS® technology, the latter focuses on low conductors such as gold.

The ZTS® system eliminates the need for recovery speed.
We do not detect next to iron but in the iron and under the iron !

At the beach in a polluted zone (rip currents zone) this technology allows to find up to 30%* more targets mixed with a ferrous.
The ZTS® system is effective in TONE or MUTE mode, unlike the other competitor the loss of sensitivity is minimal compared to ALL-METAL mode.”

 

[zeemang]

You guys are still talking about this nonexistent machine?
I hear great things about the new excal III, LOTS of chatter about that one. It's supposed to blow everything else out of the water, but who knows, who knows?

 

[Bklein]

Well, one existed for awhile, and Rick had it....
Rick, so I am interested in your experience with it. I hope you had the opportunity to try the ring in nails test. So you switch to all metal mode, but does the Freq/pulse delay position affect results? It looks by the knob that pulse delay and TX frequency track - correct?

 

[Tom_in_CA]

You guys are still talking about this nonexistent machine? ....

ah c'mon zeemang, yer no fun !

 

[lytle78]

PI’s as far as I know have a sort of broadband burst transmission. In any event, there is nothing which compares to transmission frequency being a big factor like in VLF/IB detectors - which do discrimination by frequency shift of returned signals. I’d say more about that except I don’t understand more than that!!!

The pulse delay control operates only on the receiving process - transmitter cut off causing the pulse - receiver samples at specific intervals and eddy current decay is what is being evaluated. Time domain, not frequency domain.

In discriminate modes, a second sample is taken later and the result is amplified and compared to the earlier sample - lets you know what was there early and is not there later and what was there both times.

You always hear both samples in multitone and there is a very sharp “slice” between the early stuff and the late stuff. The reject knob controls how much the later signal is amplified - the more amplification, the stronger the action of the rejection,

All of this will have to be documented by user manual and videos designed to show how the controls effect the rejection - IF you chose to use it. All metal is the “crown jewel” of the AQ’s power and learning to use it effectively is key to obtaining the kind of results LE.JAG has documented. Discriminate for cross check and certain conditions where ferrous trash is a big impediment to successful hunting.

A solid all metal signal - checked in multitone, for example - could clearly tell your ears you have ferrous and low conductor co-located or even superimposed.

 

[Cfmct]

You guys are still talking about this nonexistent machine?
I hear great things about the new excal III, LOTS of chatter about that one. It's supposed to blow everything else out of the water, but who knows, who knows?

I'll be testing it in as soon as they lift the ban going to the beach...

 

[Surf Master]

Cfm-ct

Even before OBN mod's howboughtit , ML claims it's deeper than the AQ only in Multi Frequency PS I'll bet an Excalibur 111 will be out before Joe get's his AQ

 

[zeemang]

I heard tell that OBN has the excal III as we speak, very hush hush...
Can I start a thread about it and hope it goes 60 pages?

 

[Surf Master]

Z

 

[Bklein]

Rick,
The Manta V3, a predecessor, had delay and RX frequency knobs but the AQ seems to have one knob tweak both simultaneously, correct?

Never mind, I found your controls desc. on another site.

 

[Surf Master]

I have 100 Clams

Betting that OBN post's the NEW - Excalibur 3 -fully moded , and my COV -20 ready Mask on it , that it will be here before the AQ get's here howboughit