Deus users using full tones (beware)

[Rattlehead]

Was just out in the yard playing with V4.0 in my test bed. I noticed something odd on one of the large iron targets. Before on 3.2 I'm almost positive this target was reading in the 90s with a high pitch. With V4 its reading low both on the ID and tone. Maybe XP has changed something to help cut down on high tones from large iron? I can't say for sure yet because it's dark outside and I'm not 100% sure I was even over the right target. I'll have to do some more testing tomorrow to verify. Wish I had two Deus's to test 3.2 and 4.0 side by side.


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[tnsharpshooter]

Was just out in the yard playing with V4.0 in my test bed. I noticed something odd on one of the large iron targets. Before on 3.2 I'm almost positive this target was reading in the 90s with a high pitch. With V4 its reading low both on the ID and tone. Maybe XP has changed something to help cut down on falsing large iron? I can't say for sure yet because it's dark outside and I'm not 100% sure I was even over the right target. I'll have to do some more testing tomorrow to verify. Wish I had two Deus's to test 3.2 and 4.0 side by side.


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Seems like I read,,this was one of the things version 4 improved on.
Quite a few months ago actually.,,but I didn't know if to believe or not.
I have not followed version 4 hoopla too closely,,figuring I'd wait and get the real thing,,,time is getting close now.

I have two 11" coils,,,so I will be able to compare 3.2 to 4.0 and maybe report.
At least this will give solo Deus users a heads up at maybe some of the real differences.

And in doing so,,cut their learning curve time some.

Something else worth mentioning,,this new 2.5 reactivity setting,,,could it actually get to some targets,,that neither 2 or 3 reactivity levels can??
Or at the very least more forgiving coil position/swing speed.

 

[Rattlehead]

Seems like I read,,this was one of the things version 4 improved on.

Quite a few months ago actually.,,but I didn't know if to believe or not.

I have not followed version 4 hoopla too closely,,figuring I'd wait and get the real thing,,,time is getting close now.



I have two 11" coils,,,so I will be able to compare 3.2 to 4.0 and maybe report.

At least this will give solo Deus users a heads up at maybe some of the real differences.



And in doing so,,cut their learning curve time some.



Something else worth mentioning,,this new 2.5 reactivity setting,,,could it actually get to some targets,,that neither 2 or 3 reactivity levels can??

Or at the very least more forgiving coil position/swing speed.

Would be nice if this version could help eliminate some of those sweet sounding steel bottle caps. I can tell the difference most of the time but every now and then I still get fooled.

Reactivity of 2.5 seems like a good idea for a happy medium. Little more depth than 3 and a little faster than 2.

Props to XP for releasing these updates. Almost feels like getting a new detector for free! Minelab needs to take some notes.



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[5 mile]

That would be a welcome comparison tns, realizing how much time and effort, plus documenting these tests take.

Whatever info is always truly appreciated.

 

[tnsharpshooter]

Would be nice if this version could help eliminate some of those sweet sounding steel bottle caps. I can tell the difference most of the time but every now and then I still get fooled.

Reactivity of 2.5 seems like a good idea for a happy medium. Little more depth than 3 and a little faster than 2.

Props to XP for releasing these updates. Almost feels like getting a new detector for free! Minelab needs to take some notes.



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I am hearing version 4,, don't delink reactivity and silencer setting,
Bad news here,,should have been done.

One of my biggest gripes with Deus,,and the other was having. 4khz locked on to power 3 setting,,,that's another one I've still not understood the why behind.

But maybe this is why I am only a user and not a maker of detectors.

 

[jadocs]

Great thread and great discussion

 

[Rattlehead]

The only difference is the disc level is at 6.5.

I was wrong about this. At a quick glance I thought the disc was set at 6.4. It's actually set at negative 6.4 (-6.4). A new tweak to V4.0 I guess.

I did some detecting at a local park today just to try out the new version. Seems like the negative disc setting effects how big flat iron sounds and reads. I guess that was the idea behind it. The XY screen with larger VDI numbers and zoom is a really nice addition.

I also tried a disc level of 6 and it didn't seem to effect depth any. It was a nice change from hearing the constant low grunts I'm used to. I still want to test this more on some of my other sites that have been hammered.

Anyway, I didn't find anything spectacular but it was still fun. I got some footage which I'll put up on my YouTube channel in a few days.




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[tnsharpshooter]

More data from hunt today.
Same site as yesterday.
See pic.
Not many finds.

But what few I did get,,showed some worthy data.
Deus 9" coil,,almost half meter full mineralization wise,,,18khz, reactivity 3, silencer -1,full tones disc varied between 0-6.

Only changed disc setting when sweeping targets.

I was fooled by the curled square nail,,,but full tones 0 disc give less worthy signal on this nail vs full tones Disc level 6.

The 22 cal brass,,this target only around 1.5" deep,,,using disc level 6,, a good signal,,,run disc down to 0,, have to flush the target and not be sweeping to fast to lock on.
Even pivoting around this target,,,the same as above when changing disc between 0 and. 6.

The piece of horse tack I think,,found using disc level 6,,detecting fro the best angle,,I compared coil position when sweeping this target (undisturbed). Using disc level 6,,,Deus would break disc even if the target was swept just inside the coils toe,,using disc level 0,, this same position(just inside the toe),, hardly any tonal difference noted (to get me) to hone my coil position to locate target,,,so here in 0 disc I had to get really close to center of coil,,,before I would get something tonally to alert me.
This target,,when pivoting around the target,,,using disc level 6 actually gave more nonferrous tone,,,in one position using disc 0,, nothing tonally provided to tell me something was there nonferrous.

The piece of lead in pic.
This target gave good tone using disc level 6,, but when turning 90 degrees,,no tonal info to tell me the nonferrous target was there. Running 0 disc,,I got good 4way signal,,when turning 90 degrees from best detectable position,,tone provided not as ideal,,but ample enough for a good Dig decision.

The flat looking piece of brass,,I didn't see any real differences with it when comparing,,,other than the fact coil position again using 0 disc,,has to be closer to center of coil to give me something reason wise to move my coil and find the (exact spot) for the sweeter dig me tone.

The back end of the bigger than. 22cal casing,,it gave better tone using disc 6,, when Infound this,,it seemed based on Deus sounding off on some bigger iron,,this cartridge setup up a lot like the IH and nail in the opening post here in this thread.
Using disc 0,,when Inwould come over the iron and hit this target,,a rather sharp tone would come in,,,disc level 6 much smoother,,and this is with very similar sweep speeds down the same area over target.

So using full tones using both 0 and lower disc vs Disc level 6,, both have their advantages.
But from what I'm seeing,,,if I was in a one time good deal hunt in carpet of nails,, I would opt for disc level 6 vs full tones and 0 or low(er).
(Now if the site had been pounded by someone with Deus using Disc 6 or very similar,,,then Inwould opt for full tones and 0 or what I call lower disc.

 

[Rattlehead]

TNSS,
I got out to one of my hammered sites today for about an hour and went over the area with disc level set at 6 as you suggested. I can confirm what you said. Was able to hear some non-ferrous targets with discrimination vs without.

I found the targets below with full tones, disc level at 6, reactivity at 2.5, silencer -1. Then I lowered the disc to 0 and scanned them again before digging.

This area has a ton of small bits of iron in the ground and I think running the disc level of 6 helped cut most of the iron out, making the non-ferrous targets stand out to the ear more clearly. At this point I could narrow down my sweep to a wiggle and zero in on the target as you mentioned, which made it sound even better. When I lowered the disc down to 0, I could barely make out the target from all the iron grunts, which explains why I missed them before.. The small button was a good 7" down with bits of iron all around it. With disc set at 0 it sounded like nothing but ferrous. With disc set at 6 I got the tone which stopped me in my tracks. If I turned just the slightest bit in either direction the tone disappeared with both 0 and 6.

I know these are just a few junk items but they could have just as easily been small gold coins or rings! So your info is right on the money as far as I'm concerned. I'm going to continue hunting this place with disc level of 6 and see what else turns up.

 

[tnsharpshooter]

TNSS,
I got out to one of my hammered sites today for about an hour and went over the area with disc level set at 6 as you suggested. I can confirm what you said. Was able to hear some non-ferrous targets with discrimination vs without.

I found the targets below with full tones, disc level at 6, reactivity at 2.5, silencer -1. Then I lowered the disc to 0 and scanned them again before digging.

This area has a ton of small bits of iron in the ground and I think running the disc level of 6 helped cut most of the iron out, making the non-ferrous targets stand out to the ear more clearly. At this point I could narrow down my sweep to a wiggle and zero in on the target as you mentioned, which made it sound even better. When I lowered the disc down to 0, I could barely make out the target from all the iron grunts, which explains why I missed them before.. The small button was a good 7" down with bits of iron all around it. With disc set at 0 it sounded like nothing but ferrous. With disc set at 6 I got the tone which stopped me in my tracks. If I turned just the slightest bit in either direction the tone disappeared with both 0 and 6.

I know these are just a few junk items but they could have just as easily been small gold coins or rings! So your info is right on the money as far as I'm concerned. I'm going to continue hunting this place with disc level of 6 and see what else turns up.

Notice when the disc is broken using level 6,,,it tells you,,now go find what set the detector off.
Full tones 0 disc don't do.
Did you notice how far off of the coil's center you could get off of target,,yet the disc would be broken with any kind of tone,,even somewhat bad,,but still gets your attention??

One of the reasons why I rehunt my sites,,experimenting.
If one goes to virgin sites,,this wouldn't be as easy to really realize.

That small $1 gold coin,,,could get away in a bunch of nails using 0 disc and full tones,,person has better flush it and not be too fast on the swing speed.
Disc 6 gives in most instances more leeway,,to trap a target like this.

 

[Rattlehead]

Did you notice how far off of the coil's center you could get off of target,,yet the disc would be broken with any kind of tone,,even somewhat bad,,but still gets your attention??

I had to keep my swing very narrow for it to sound good, but even swinging at my normal pace it broke the disc enough to make me stop and investigate further.

 

[tnsharpshooter]

I had to keep my swing very narrow for it to sound good, but even swinging at my normal pace it broke the disc enough to make me stop and investigate further.

Yes,,I understand,,your have to get the coil just right to make the target's tone sound sweet(er).
But to trip the disc,,,next time you go,,compare how far off of coil's center can be to trip the disc-- stopping you and making you investigate.
This is another advantage of higher disc like 6 vs full tones.

No disc is set using full tones 0 disc ,,a person for all practical purposes must get the coils center almost plum to get something tonally to get a users attention.
This applies moreso to challenged targets in nails and iron bits.

So 2 advantages,,swing speed and coil position.
Both more forgiving.
Calabash should be paying attention here.
He likes to swing fast.
No offense either Calabash,,,I'm on your side. Just remember.

Also,,full tones and low(er) disc does do better on some targets vs disc level 6.
I had rather hunt a nail ridden site first with disc 6,,, then later using 2.5 and 0.
In that order.

 

[calabash digger]

Im paying attention! anything that will give a advantage, I was talking to another seasoned relic hunter who test for deus and he said Alain the guy who built the deus said he wouldnt run the machine without any disc. As you might know I have learned the deus with full tones and low disc but ive been pondering about the targets missed with the noise from the iron and I have noticed how full tones will run give a low tone when a target is close to a nail a certain way. I will be experimenting with a disc of 6.5 on my next hunt and a 5 tone setup/ actually this season

 

[tnsharpshooter]

A couple things here.

Folks should remember,,,my posting here was using and talking about version 3.2 not version 4.0

Now after using/testing version 4.0 some of this data does carry over.

But remember disc layout is different with version 4.0

I really think the version 4.0 disc system is both stretched and extended.
I say this because version 4 using -2.5 disc to me gets similar performance/audio vs version 3.2 disc level 2.0 using the same 9" coil.

But audio volume level is higher when using version 4.0 using same audio report level vs version 3.2.

Cheers.

 

[calabash digger]

thanks for the info I wonder where the disc needs to be to equal to 6

 

[tnsharpshooter]

thanks for the info I wonder where the disc needs to be to equal to 6

This is the strange part.

Seems 6.0 disc using both versions 3.2 and 4.0 acts/performs the same and I think version 2.0 as well.
Meaning breaking.(discing) a nail like a 16 penny, level 6 seems the same.

Deep down I think the new disc setup with 4.0 keeps the Deus from allowing audio of heavier masked targets (detectable) from being drawn down as close to iron range tonally.(was a Deus weakness prior)

So far using 4.0 version I have heard NO nonferrous targets audio being reported as what I refer to as "murmured" down real close to the good ole iron sound.

Remember heavier nonferrous masked targets providing the murmered tone lots of times would ID as 0,1, 2, 3 and some times 4,,,,,but this was when running disc say between 0-4 using full tones.
Btw I did see a few nonferrous targets tone in and ID as 4,and 5 using more conventional disc setting of 6.0 using 3 tones.
Never did see with Deus configured this way a target that ID less than 4.

So now with version4, these same targets reporting as 0,1,2,3 ,,,,this number reported is farther away from disc setting I.e. -2.5.

Could this be the reason why I haven't heard any targets reporting as such tonally?
All speculation, but worthy speculation IMO.

A good point here I think.
I can't say this definitely here yet about version 4, but can say about version 3.2.

If a Deus user using version 3.2, and you are wanting to know just how proficient you are with it at pulling at all detectable nonferrous.
If you are digging nonferrous targets that ID as 0 or 1,,, you my friends IMO are operating the Deus at very advanced level(s).

 

[calabash digger]

I know the tones on the masked targets your talking about but dont understand what your saying about version 4 being farther away from 2,5 disc.

 

[tnsharpshooter]

I know the tones on the masked targets your talking about but dont understand what your saying about version 4 being farther away from 2,5 disc.

Version 3.2 had no negative disc capability.
Version 4 does.

So using 9" coil in my proving ground site (nails galore)

I could get over a target using 3.2 full tones disc 2.0.
If I used the same coil and swept over same target (undisturbed) using version 4.0 instead disc is at -2.5,,,and this target would sound the same as far as how the iron tones were reporting around.

Disc level 2.0 is closer to a target reporting with ID say of 0 or 1.
Actually disc level is what I call over the top of target ID.
Disc level -2.5 is farther away from the target IDing as 0 or 1.

And this extra distance here( and or Disc level being always under the ID reported), I suspect is why Deus reports targets tonally better using version 4 vs 3.2.

Bottom line, who in their right mind would have ever thought Deus would report a tone tonally (nonferrous) that ID below disc setting?

 

[tnsharpshooter]

One thing as far as version 4, I can rate yet.

Does it have this same capability as version 3.2 to report targets I.D wise below disc setting.

It seems to me the new disc layout with version 4.0 is geared to use of full tones.
And this new disc layout, somehow was a way to help Deus decompress its audio a bit,,meaning keep the audio from being jammed, like that nonferrous targets being dragged so near iron range tonally.

Disc level 2 version 3.2 for example is not equivalent to disc level 2 version 4.
User if they use disc level 2 with version 4.0 would be at a disadvantage vs a version 3.2 user.
Now the above statement could be both true and false.
Why?
For the very things you showed calabash in your videos.
Filters and what program.

Xp should have volunteered more info with the disc layout with version 4.0 as well as discussed the filters (different) for different programs in the Deus V4 manual.

 

[Tony (Michigan)]

I don't see any picture you allude to.
Tony (Michigan)

I enjoy running my Deus units in full tones while hunting,,especially relic hunting.
But is full tones necessarily the best to run in all cases???
Can a nonferrous target be missed,,,even a worthy coin???

The answer to the second question above,,,YES.

Deus users I recommend you do the following experiment and similar experiements for understanding.

Take a look at the pic below.
The ruler is in pic to show nail size.
Two nails are pictured,,,but only one was used at a time,,,in the position associated with IH penny.

Deus users using full tones sweeping down the barrel of this nail,,(I used 9" coil btw),,do you think you would dig the coin???

Would I??

IMO I even with as much Deus experience I have,,,,I would give a less than 40 percent chance of digging.

What are the symptoms here with this coin and nail configuration??
You won't get much tone nuance,,little if any to identify,,,,you do get elongated low roar(so near iron grunt) it ain't funny.
Meter reading will amp to and try to read in the mid20s to 30s,,,but the meter reading don't match the sound provided in the least.

Btw I have seen some relic iron (solo buried) do the very same thing here.

So what to do,,,to maybe not miss a find maybe laying in this configuration in an old site???

IMO,,,users would be serving themselves here well,,,if they have an adjacent program setup,,using regular 2 tone or 3 tones setup,,with disc at level between 6-7,,,I used 7 when testing coin with bigger nail,,,nail procided no tone,,dead quiet,,,,but put the coins,,,IH,,zincoln,,or clad dime as shown in pic,,and a good tone to stop you in your tracks.
When in the field using full tones,,you hear a longer signal,,dull sounding,,meter reading in 20s or 30s,,toggle to your adjacent 2 or 3 tone program and sweep and listen.