Vaccine Mandate

[diggindaboot]

Oh, so true! And that's what's so frustrating about it.

Let's list the laws and mandates concerning sovereignty over one's own body that so many people had no problem with (or at least didn't think was a big deal) even though they're strongly against having to get vaccinated, tested and/or wear a mask:

Laws against DUI
Appears to me alcohol should be outlawed by the government. I'm positive you would support prohibition. If not, tell me why.

More than a quarter (25%) of all traffic-related deaths are the direct result of alcohol impairment. (NHTSA)
Every day, 30 people in the United States die in car crashes with an alcohol-impaired driver. This is one death every 50 minutes. (CDC)
As of last year (2020), about 290,000 are injured in such accidents every year. (NHTSA)
Drunk driving cost the United States $132 billion in 2011. (Mothers Against Drunk Driving)
10,511 people died in alcohol-related accidents in 2018. (NHTSA)
In 2017, more than 10,800 people were killed in drunk driving incidents. (NHTSA)
In 2016, 10,497 people were killed in crashes involving a drunk driver. These deaths accounted for 28% of all U.S traffic-related fatalities. (CDC)
Drivers with a Blood Alcohol Content of over 0.10 are 7 times more likely to be involved in a fatal accident than sober drivers. (Responsibility.org)
Over 10,000 Americans a year are killed by drunk drivers, about 1,000 of them being children. (CDC)


Laws making rape illegal Anyone who needs a law to tell them rape is bad, is just a horrible human being to begin with.

Do you believe abortion is a right ?

 

[mh9162013]

Since Covid I have seen a newfound push for business owners rights. Mainly, their "right" to require masks in their private business if they wish. Why doesn't that extend to smoking? Shouldn't it be up to the business owner to decide if they want to allow smoking or not? The non smokers have the right to not frequent that establishment if they choose. As a citizen, you have the right to choose whether or not you put yourself in what you feel is harms way, but you do not have the right to complain about it when you do. Do you feel you have the right to walk out onto a busy street and then complain if you get ran over?

Personally, I don't wear my seatbelt, mostly because I'm told I have to. If I get killed or seriously injured as a result, that was my choice and I paid the consequences for it. I don't need society to protect me from myself.

Drunk driving is a bad example and you know that.

Honestly, who's business is it if you want to do drugs? I've never done an illegal drug in my life (Even marijuana), but people pump themselves full of less than healthy substances every day, many of which directly result in the death over time, that they get from the corner grocery store. If someone wants to smoke a little weed from the comfort of their living room, do you really feel like you have the right to tell them they can't? Are you going to pick out what type of socks and shoes they wear next?

Looks like you're getting my point: that if the aversion to the COVID vaccine was really a "my body, my choice" issue, then those individuals would be making a fuss about A LOT MORE than just 1 vaccine...

 

[mh9162013]

Oh, so true! And that's what's so frustrating about it.

Let's list the laws and mandates concerning sovereignty over one's own body that so many people had no problem with (or at least didn't think was a big deal) even though they're strongly against having to get vaccinated, tested and/or wear a mask:

Laws against DUI
Appears to me alcohol should be outlawed by the government. I'm positive you would support prohibition. If not, tell me why.

More than a quarter (25%) of all traffic-related deaths are the direct result of alcohol impairment. (NHTSA)
Every day, 30 people in the United States die in car crashes with an alcohol-impaired driver. This is one death every 50 minutes. (CDC)
As of last year (2020), about 290,000 are injured in such accidents every year. (NHTSA)
Drunk driving cost the United States $132 billion in 2011. (Mothers Against Drunk Driving)
10,511 people died in alcohol-related accidents in 2018. (NHTSA)
In 2017, more than 10,800 people were killed in drunk driving incidents. (NHTSA)
In 2016, 10,497 people were killed in crashes involving a drunk driver. These deaths accounted for 28% of all U.S traffic-related fatalities. (CDC)
Drivers with a Blood Alcohol Content of over 0.10 are 7 times more likely to be involved in a fatal accident than sober drivers. (Responsibility.org)
Over 10,000 Americans a year are killed by drunk drivers, about 1,000 of them being children. (CDC)


Laws making rape illegal Anyone who needs a law to tell them rape is bad, is just a horrible human being to begin with.

Do you believe abortion is a right ?

I don't support prohibition, but I support limiting the right to drink when it hurts others.

I also believe abortion is a right, but I believe in limits to that right and I 100% understand those who disagree with that right.

But I mentioned those laws to make a point about the "my body, my choice" argument against the COVID vaccine and how for many of those people, their logic is inconsistent with their other beliefs.

So I support the right not to get vaccine, but I also support limiting that right when the decision not to get vaccinated harms others. If someone wants to refuse the vaccine, I'm fine with that. But then they need to get tested regularly and wear masks any time they're out in public. And if they don't want to do those 2 things, then they need to stay home or be socially distanced 100% of the time.

 

[woodbutcher]

i got the shot for a few reasons. Biggest reason is I don’t want my family to hafto deal with a unforeseen burial when I could have prevented it. Kinda enough said. Any conspiracy theory I might have brewing in my mind about the vaccine isn’t worth the grief I know I would put my family through making and attending my burial,after they’ve spent weeks watching me gasp for air on a ventilator. Come on man,I can’t believe people are that selfish and wrapped up in they’re own !!!! that they question everything

 

[Travis798]

Looks like you're getting my point: that if the aversion to the COVID vaccine was really a "my body, my choice" issue, then those individuals would be making a fuss about A LOT MORE than just 1 vaccine...

Some people do, but nobody listens.

It's human nature that most people don't care enough about certain things until they feel they are impacted by it. What you are starting to see now could be the start of a new wave of people that have finally been awakened to the fact that the Government controls much more of their lives than it should. Whether it's new people finally seeing things for the first time, or the same people, only now becoming more vocal, remains to be seen. Mid-term elections may answer that question.

 

[stetam]

I get yearly flu shots and got the COVID vaccine. Some of my family got neither despite my urging.

Steve

 

[Travis798]

I don't support prohibition, but I support limiting the right to drink when it hurts others.

I also believe abortion is a right, but I believe in limits to that right and I 100% understand those who disagree with that right.

But I mentioned those laws to make a point about the "my body, my choice" argument against the COVID vaccine and how for many of those people, their logic is inconsistent with their other beliefs.

So I support the right not to get vaccine, but I also support limiting that right when the decision not to get vaccinated harms others. If someone wants to refuse the vaccine, I'm fine with that. But then they need to get tested regularly and wear masks any time they're out in public. And if they don't want to do those 2 things, then they need to stay home or be socially distanced 100% of the time.

Why couldn't you also flip that argument the other way?

"I support peoples right to get the vaccine, but I also support the unalienable right to make my own health care decisions about my own health. If someone wants the vaccine, I'm fine with that. But they need to realize that there will be people living their lives in public that haven't gotten it. If they aren't good with that, then they need to stay home or be socially distanced 100% of the time in order to protect themselves"

 

[davidlhyde63366]

Agree with woodbutcher

i got the shot for a few reasons. Biggest reason is I don’t want my family to hafto deal with a unforeseen burial when I could have prevented it. Kinda enough said. Any conspiracy theory I might have brewing in my mind about the vaccine isn’t worth the grief I know I would put my family through making and attending my burial,after they’ve spent weeks watching me gasp for air on a ventilator. Come on man,I can’t believe people are that selfish and wrapped up in they’re own !!!! that they question everything

I totally agree with you , got mine as soon as it was available didn't want to be in hospital or having my wife take off work and be a burden to her or my adult daughter who lives another state, to take care of me for some thing that could be prevented. My daughter is taking care of Covid-19 patients at a hospital in Florida ,as well as her cousin both are wore out from extra hours they are having to put in to keep up with the demand. With this new Delta strain spreading like wild fire i am also wearing my mask almost every where i go , don't like it but can live with it. On the island where my wife comes from (Bohol Philippines)where they are still waiting for enough vaccine to vaccinate the large Population ( only about 7 % vaccinated right now ) they have been on restrictions and lock downs over 500 days now. The picture of Scuba Detective ending his life hooked up to machine , with his lungs scared not able to breath should of been enough to convince some people this is a bad way to go. https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.ne...=cab3a5466aaec193fecae61844a95201&oe=61224500

 

[Tpmetal]

Really wish people would stop using scubas death to shame people for their beliefs and to push their own beliefs(on both sides).....Shame on all of you.

 

[mh9162013]

Why couldn't you also flip that argument the other way?

"I support peoples right to get the vaccine, but I also support the unalienable right to make my own health care decisions about my own health. If someone wants the vaccine, I'm fine with that. But they need to realize that there will be people living their lives in public that haven't gotten it. If they aren't good with that, then they need to stay home or be socially distanced 100% of the time in order to protect themselves"

I would accept that argument, but only if they people who got to go out (those who didn't want to get vaccinated) have been anti-vaxxers FROM DAY ONE. I'm willing to bet people like that are very, very rare.

 

[mh9162013]

Some people do, but nobody listens.

It's human nature that most people don't care enough about certain things until they feel they are impacted by it. What you are starting to see now could be the start of a new wave of people that have finally been awakened to the fact that the Government controls much more of their lives than it should. Whether it's new people finally seeing things for the first time, or the same people, only now becoming more vocal, remains to be seen. Mid-term elections may answer that question.

That's a good point. So why do people feel impacted by the COVID vaccine mandate now? There have been vaccine mandates for decades, with very little fuss.

This supports the argument that a lot of the opposition (not all) to the COVID vaccine is political.

 

[Travis798]

That's a good point. So why do people feel impacted by the COVID vaccine mandate now? There have been vaccine mandates for decades, with very little fuss.

This supports the argument that a lot of the opposition (not all) to the COVID vaccine is political.

I would venture to guess there are a lot of mitigating factors involved.

The fact that this vaccine was rushed through very quickly, with absolutely no possibility for long term tests. We still don't know any potential long term issues evolving from this vaccine (If any) because we can't do until by definition, it has been developed and used over a course of many years.

The drug companies developing these vaccines were given blanket immunity against any lawsuits from any potential issues with these vaccines

Common vaccines and vaccine mandates are very different things. Plenty of parents opt their children out of vaccines right now. I don't know if they have to home school or send to private school or if they can still go to public school, but vaccinations are not required for those children to live their lives. They do not have to live away from society.

The vaccine may be proven to be completely safe, and it may not. The point is that right this minute, what we know of the vaccine is that you can still contract covid, and you can still transmit it as well. One one hand they tell you to get the vaccine because you will get less sick if you get covid, but on the other hand they have been saying all along to get the vaccine because you might be asymptomatic and transmit the virus without knowing.

So now they are telling you that even though there is a (CDC Estimated) 40% chance you will be asymptomatic without the vaccine, you need the vaccine to increase your chances of not getting sick. My circle is pretty small, so I do not know many people that have gotten the vaccine, but of those few at least one co-workers wife is currently very sick after receiving it. I also know of 2 older gentleman that seemed healthy at the time of vaccination but passed from heart failure within days of their second dose.

Perhaps it's all coincidence and the numbers being put out relating to government are real, true and correct. But they keep telling people to trust the science even though the science keeps changing, proving that it's not settled yet. Unsettled science is a hypothesis, not scientific fact

 

[graybeard]

I would accept that argument, but only if they people who got to go out (those who didn't want to get vaccinated) have been anti-vaxxers FROM DAY ONE. I'm willing to bet people like that are very, very rare.

I am one of the very.. very rare ones, you speak about.
I have a total fear of needles... always have.

 

[diggin4clad]

Do I have the right to go up to someone in restaurant and flick their ear? Of course not, even if the physical harm (if any) is negligible.







It's my body, so don't I get to decide whether I wear a seat belt or not?

You can go to a restaurant or anywhere and "flick" someone's ear but you'll have to deal with the consequences of what the "flickee" dishes out back to you. Maybe just a dirty look, maybe a verbal comment, or maybe a punch in the mouth. No "ear flicking law" is necessary.
As for seat belts......you should be able to wear or not wear a seatbelt. Seatbelt laws are designed to add to the coffers of the town and state.

 

[Lee1968]

There are countless examples of politicians breaking the very lockdown rules they put in place. Usually when they make such rules, it is followed by the obligatory phrase - we are all in this together. Then they do what they want, when they want, but remind us to tow the line. I can understand why people are hesitant to follow their recommendations and mandates. Every time I hear one of them talk about how they are trying to protect us, I am reminded of a famous quote - "The most terrifying words in the English language are - I am from the government and I am here to help."
Imagine how much we could get accomplished towards ending this mess if we could actually believe and have faith in our so called "leaders". I am not calling out one side of the aisle over another - they all are the same at the core. As country singer Eric Church says in his song "Snake", one side is a rattler and the other is a copperhead.

 

[Cherry Picker]

I am one of the very.. very rare ones, you speak about.
I have a total fear of needles... always have.

Don't feel alone, I have a real fear of needles as well. When I was young I fell in our barn and cracked my arm. I was taken to the hospital to get a cast and they wanted to give me a tetanus shot. I fought with the nurse to the point the needle was broken off in my backside. Ever since I've had a phobia of needles. When I must get a shot or IV, I tell the nurse you get one chance, you screw it up and I'm done.

 

[Rudy]

The fact that this vaccine was rushed through very quickly, with absolutely no possibility for long term tests. We still don't know any potential long term issues evolving from this vaccine (If any) because we can't do until by definition, it has been developed and used over a course of many years.

mRNA has been studied since the 1980s. In 1990, researchers at the University of Wisconsin managed to make an mRNA vaccine which worked in mice. So the mRNA technology is not all that new. For example, google "Katalin Karikó".

What was lacking was funding to develop mRNA beyond academic research. DJT drove the necessary funding through operation warp speed.

The Pfizer/Biotech phase 3 trial involved 43,661 volunteers. The Moderna Phase 3 trial involved 25,654 volunteers. Since then 165 million people in the US have received the full dose of the vaccine (either Pfizer, or Moderna).

Historically, any long term effects from vaccines is known within about 8 weeks after the start of mass vaccinations. We are well past that point.

The drug companies developing these vaccines were given blanket immunity against any lawsuits from any potential issues with these vaccines

This is not really specifically due to the mRNA vaccine. According to 42 U.S. Code § 300aa–22, enacted in 1986, "No vaccine manufacturer shall be liable in a civil action for damages arising from a vaccine-related injury or death associated with the administration of a vaccine after October 1, 1988, if the injury or death resulted from side effects that were unavoidable even though the vaccine was properly prepared and was accompanied by proper directions and warnings."
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/42/300aa-22

Needless to say, 1986 is well before the covid vaccine so this is a bit of fear mongering.

But they keep telling people to trust the science even though the science keeps changing, proving that it's not settled yet. Unsettled science is a hypothesis, not scientific fact

Coronaviruses are known for undergoing rapid mutations. As such, the science will keep changing as new mutations develop.

 

[davidlhyde63366]

mRNA has been studied since the 1980s. In 1990, researchers at the University of Wisconsin managed to make an mRNA vaccine which worked in mice. So the mRNA technology is not all that new. For example, google "Katalin Karikó".

What was lacking was funding to develop mRNA beyond academic research. DJT drove the necessary funding through operation warp speed.

The Pfizer/Biotech phase 3 trial involved 43,661 volunteers. The Moderna Phase 3 trial involved 25,654 volunteers. Since then 165 million people in the US have received the full dose of the vaccine (either Pfizer, or Moderna).

Historically, any long term effects from vaccines is known within about 8 weeks after the start of mass vaccinations. We are well past that point.





This is not really specifically due to the mRNA vaccine. According to 42 U.S. Code § 300aa–22, enacted in 1986, "No vaccine manufacturer shall be liable in a civil action for damages arising from a vaccine-related injury or death associated with the administration of a vaccine after October 1, 1988, if the injury or death resulted from side effects that were unavoidable even though the vaccine was properly prepared and was accompanied by proper directions and warnings."
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/42/300aa-22

Needless to say, 1986 is well before the covid vaccine so this is a bit of fear mongering.



Coronaviruses are known for undergoing rapid mutations. As such, the science will keep changing as new mutations develop.

hopefully this research will also lead to other break throughs in cures for other things . With the amount of research and funding around the world.

 

[diggin4clad]

I would accept that argument, but only if they people who got to go out (those who didn't want to get vaccinated) have been anti-vaxxers FROM DAY ONE. I'm willing to bet people like that are very, very rare.

I never get flu shots so I guess that makes me an anti-vaxxer from day one.

I'm not afraid of needles, nor do I think that there's some weird gov't conspiracy putting a micro chip into my body through the vaccine. I trust my immune system........

 

[diggin4clad]

To borrow a line from a Simon and Garfunkel song : " A Man Hears What He Wants To Hear And Disregards the Rest".
For the most part neither side in the "vaccine debate" is going to convince the other side to change their viewpoint.
The ones who want the vaccine are free to get it. The ones who wish not to shouldn't be hounded by the pro vaccine group to get the shot(s).