Higher cost VS lower cost detectors

[Valley Hunter]

To understand the utility of audio nuance, I detect with a DEUS the remote is in the leather pouch clipped to a GO Pro chest mount .. So I am not looking at the VDI .. NOT wondering what that number means / is just get it out of the ground and move to next target .. gold rings are not a solid number or sound

 

[jmaclen]

Jeff,

My example was for a target that gives a solid ID, or something very close to that. I'm not sure why you seemingly don't get such IDs often, especially when the target is honed in on with the short wiggle.

Unless I am at a group hunt/competition, I am usually looking for the really challenged targets and deeper stuff that has been missed by me or others or simply hasn’t been detected yet. I don’t out right ignore shallow targets, but yeah I kind of do when I am hunting with the Manticore or Deus 2 using big coils for daily park type hunts. If I am hunting an older site with lots of iron trash, I won’t be getting any clean target IDs anyway. Same for gold prospecting and deep target beach hunting. When the weather gets cold and the ground is slightly frozen, I switch to smaller coils and just hunt with the Legend or Deus 2 9” coil and I don’t worry about deep stuff.

 

[cellrdwellr]

Boy do I love healthy debates, unfortunately I don't hold a candle in the wind to most of the hunters here in terms of overall knowledge of detector operation. This is why I'm here, to gain some of this knowledge. For the most part, if my detectors make a sexy noise, I dig it up I appreciate the time each of you put into testing and sharing here on the forum. REAL world testing in the WILD. Not planted coins, aluminum foil balls, and Styrofoam behind your house. I have always run my detectors full tones as well, in this case 50 tones. I feel like I can actually HEAR the difference between a nickel (TID 13) and a pull tab (same TID 13). Is it really possible to differentiate between just iron, and iron WITH a high conductor in the same hole? I find that hard to believe, but maybe this is where newer tech is advancing... depth has just about reached its max, so manufacturers are improving on other aspects?

 

[Diga]

Jeff,

I see your point on the iron sites. The iron infested sites I hunt, have very little nonferrous trash. Well, nothing even remotely close to the amount of nonferrous trash in park like sites. In the iron infested sites, I lower my iron bias as low as possible, ignore TID, and dig everything that even has a "smidgen" of a nonferrous tone. The only exception to that, is if Ferrocheck shows bars on the ferrous side, and nothing on the nonferrous side.

Regarding TT:

If you're willing, and when you have more time with TT, it would be interesting if you could post a scenario in which TT changed your dig / no dig decision on a particular target, in a way that tones and/or TID couldn't provide.

 

[Diga]

For the most part, if my detectors make a sexy noise, I dig it up

I'm stealing that line cell!

Is it really possible to differentiate between just iron, and iron WITH a high conductor in the same hole?

The short answer is, "it depends". Unfortunately, "it depends" is also the long answer!

By far, the most important aspect in that scenario, is using a low iron bias. For whatever reason, single frequency detectors already have a low iron bias, but SMF detectors have a high default iron bias...but it's adjustable on most SMF detectors.

 

[The Lama]

When you guys are talking price gap between the deus and the Legend don't forget the deus is made in France where labor cost are quite a bit higher than Turkey not to mention how weak the turkish lira is,that is the price difference.It's always amazed me how expensive Minelabs are being so cheaply manufactured in Malaysia.

 

[Diga]

Good points Lama.

Another point is that it's not just simply the high expense of the detector itself. The expensive detectors also have expensive coil and accessory costs. When the coil costs are taken into consideration, then the price gap grows even larger.

Regarding your comment about why Minelab detectors are expensive, despite being made in Malaysia (some are made in Australia BTW). Well, a clue about that, is Minelab prices their coils based on the price of the detector. In other words, even though it's essentially the same coil, the coil will be more expensive if the detector is more expensive.

 

[cellrdwellr]

When you guys are talking price gap between the deus and the Legend don't forget the deus is made in France where labor cost are quite a bit higher than Turkey not to mention how weak the turkish lira is,that is the price difference.It's always amazed me how expensive Minelabs are being so cheaply manufactured in Malaysia.

They aren't getting cheaper either, they are going UP in January 2024. This was posted by a member here a few weeks back:

I don't think these are U.S. prices, but If they need to increase prices on already high priced machines, they are going to push away alot of potential customers. There's only 4 items on that list that will not increase in price. The Profind 35 & 40, Equinox 600, and the 5" Gold Monster coil My next detector will definitely NOT be a minelab I can tell you that much...

 

[The Lama]

Good points Lama.

Another point is that it's not just simply the high expense of the detector itself. The expensive detectors also have expensive coil costs. When the coil costs are taken into consideration, then the price gap grows even larger.

Regarding your comment about why Minelab detectors are expensive, despite being made in Malaysia (some are made in Australia BTW). Well, a clue about that, is Minelab prices their coils based on the price of the detector. In other words, even though it's essentially the same coil, the coil will be more expensive if the detector is more expensive.

Yeah and then at least on the expensive ones they chip their coils so aftermarket manufacturers can't make coils for them

 

[tnsharpshooter]

Hi CP.

There's no shortage of times that I've heard D2 users talk about the audio options. Yet, when I've asked for an exact example of how it allows them to dig more treasure, no exact example is given.

...and I'm not talking about iron identification, because come on, iron identification is easy with just about any detector. Iron falsing doesn't apply either, because true iron falsing means you get perfect audio and a nonferrous ID, despite the object being ferrous.

It might help is you actually gave your opinion of how detectors compare vs price. If you actually used them.
Have you used a Deus 2? Or Manticore?

Rattle head is giving good info. You may not believe. Tonal nuance is BIG. Junk metal targets sound different on Deus 2 vs coins for example. It’s not just about ID of target. Junk aluminum sounds different many times than coins another example.

Folks can use what they want. But folks here should probably stick to talking about what they have used. You can’t look at price and features and draw a highly accurate conclusion.

There are tones, then there are tones.
There are 5 year warranties and there are less time warranties.
There are heavier models and lighter models.

 

[cellrdwellr]

It might help is you actually gave your opinion of how detectors compare vs price. If you actually used them.
Have you used a Deus 2? Or Manticore?

Have you used them outside of your backyard?

 

[tnsharpshooter]

Have you used them outside of your backyard?

Sure have. Many times. Even today. I don’t show video lots of times why? Because I am using gear I can’t show publically. Hmm

 

[Diga]

Hey TNS,

I don't need to own a calculator to know that 1+1=2.

Now, what about the following:

When a hunter is looking for gold jewelry, they typically dig everything. So, if the hunter is digging everything, then "nuanced" audio doesn't matter.

If a hunter wants the epitome of unmasking coins in nonferrous trash, then using a smaller sized elliptical DD coil, along with a higher recovery speed, and a very low weighted SMF mode, or a SF of around 2 to 5 khz, are far more important factors than nuanced audio.

 

[cellrdwellr]

Sure have. Many times. Even today. I don’t show video lots of times why? Because I am using gear I can’t show publically. Hmm

Ok fair enough, but these are the videos we WANT to see. Surely the NDA on the D2 must have ended already, so why no videos of using it in the WILD?

 

[tnsharpshooter]

Ok fair enough, but these are the videos we WANT to see. Surely the NDA on the D2 must have ended already, so why no videos of using it in the WILD?

Used Deus 2 in wild today at old home site. Didn’t show video? Why because the owner of the home might not appreciate that. Plus the site is a secret. A permission my bud has.

I take other equipment with me most times to use/test. And I don’t want to take a chance and slip up and video it accidentally. I actually did this once before. Caught it quick and took video down. Won’t chance that again.
I do other things besides metal detector too. I video some of this stuff too,

 

[Valley Hunter]

What .. We are not suppose to detect on a 2 ft box and find out what wrong with our detectors

 

[tnsharpshooter]

Hey TNS,

I don't need to own a calculator to know that 1+1=2.

Now, what about the following:

When a hunter is looking for gold jewelry, they typically dig everything. So, if the hunter is digging everything, then audio doesn't matter.

If a hunter wants the epitome of unmasking coins in nonferrous trash, then using a smaller sized elliptical DD coil, along with a higher recovery speed, and a very low weighted SMF mode, or a SF of around 2 to 5 khz, are far more important factors than any audio.

Have you used Deus 2?
If not you just don’t know and or you won’t believe me or the gent above.
Could a gold ring sound different on a Deus 2 vs an equivalent ID reading piece of aluminum? Hmmm

I have a calculator too. It works good too.
You are trying to oversimply the comparing of detector models. IMO,
Ole sharpshooter ain’t falling for it.

Btw in case you don’t know.
Deus 2 external speaker shown with videos don’t paint the whole true pic of how that detector sounds with headphones. The whole truth and nothing but the truth. Goes for Deus 1 too.

 

[Diga]

Have you used Deus 2?
If not you just don’t know and or you won’t believe me or the gent above.
Could a gold ring sound different on a Deus 2 vs an equivalent ID reading piece of aluminum? Hmmm

I have a calculator too. It works good too.
You are trying to oversimply the comparing of detector models. IMO,
Ole sharpshooter ain’t falling for it.

...and yet, you didn't even address my basic points in my last post.

Furthermore, your sheepish question of, "Could a gold ring sound different on a Deus 2 vs an equivalent ID reading piece of aluminum?", implies that you can. Yes, I would agree that can be done with any decent detector, provided that there is a specific size and piece of aluminum, a specific ring, and they are above ground in one of your controlled tests. Too bad metal detecting doesn't work that way. Once in the ground, there are various sizes and types of gold rings and aluminum trash, at different depths, and different orientations. All of which changes tonal response and TID. So much so, that it is an impossibility for an induction balance metal detector to distinguish between gold jewelry and aluminum trash in the wild.

 

[tnsharpshooter]

...and yet, you didn't even address my basic points in my last post.

Furthermore, your sheepish question of, "Could a gold ring sound different on a Deus 2 vs an equivalent ID reading piece of aluminum?", implies that you can. Yes, I would agree that can be done with any decent detector, provided that there is a specific size and piece of aluminum, a specific ring, and they are above ground in one of your controlled tests. Too bad metal detecting doesn't work that way. Once in the ground, there are various sizes and types of gold rings and aluminum trash, at different depths, and different orientations. All of which changes tonal response and TID. So much so, that it is an impossibility for an induction balance metal detector to distinguish between gold jewelry and aluminum trash in the wild.

Impossibility. Hmm
Again you have not run Deus 2 or Deus 1 sounds like.
The Xp folks have been kings of tonal nuance. That’s the truth. Again whether you want to believe or not.
Is Deus 2 perfect on all situations giving operator keen info based on tonal nuance ? Nope.
But based on my experiences of using lot of other models, it’s the king for all multi freq detectors. The detector that recently released and will not be sold in USA evidently I have not run it. Can’t rate it.

You must have never heard the Deus 2 sizzle when sweeping a coin or ring shaped target.
Yeah, that’s it- Sizzle. Again the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Junk don’t give the sizzle.

 

[Diga]

Again TNS, you can't even address my basic points about tonal nuance. Instead, you just double down on your meaningless talk. In other words, you say a lot, but actually say nothing.