Silver Strike
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Civil War gold coin hoard
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Tom_in_CA
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Haha, I saw that part too. My heart was just BLEEDING for that poor archie's lament, that it would "go to the landowner" and "might be sold", and "can't be studied" *by properly credentialed archies*. Oh boo hoo. Oh the horror. HEAVEN FORBID a private citizen finds a goodie and not the archie.
Mind you, I don't dispute that, yes, there's "historic sensitive monuments" that .... sure ... we shouldn't be tromping on, and ... yes.... stuff at those museums is cool and preserved for future tourists and people to see. Sure. But to go from that, to insinuating that everything in the ground (even on private land !) should be reserved for archies to come dig up with their tweezers and brushes ? Oh cry me a river !
It will take a university or govt. archie dept. all summer long, and tens of thousands of dollars, to dig a 10 ft. x 10 ft. pit. And write volumes on each square nail and rivet they find. (and sure, we enjoy the results and documenting, sure). But at this rate of coverage, it would take them centuries to dig a single acre of public land anywhere. So why do they whine when farmer bob finds something on his own land ??
Also Note : It's made the news, thus presto : Study that news clipping. There ya go : History preserved. So there !
Silver Strike
Forum Supporter
I'm just jealous of the millions he found. https://www.coinworld.com/news/us-coins/gold-coin-hoard-totaling-800-pieces-found-in-kentucky
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Tom_in_CA
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However, haven't you noticed that show & tell is 99% of our hobby ? It's only human nature to want to give and take "high 5's". No one is an island.
And if the "IRS" is an issue, notice that there is perpetually stuff shown on our finds forums (granted , smaller amounts) and.... shucks .... that doesn't seem to stop any of us from posting our trophies. Right ? And ask yourself : "Has an IRS agent ever shown up your doorstep" ?
However, haven't you noticed that show & tell is 99% of our hobby ? It's only human nature to want to give and take "high 5's". No one is an island.
And if the "IRS" is an issue, notice that there is perpetually stuff shown on our finds forums (granted , smaller amounts) and.... shucks .... that doesn't seem to stop any of us from posting our trophies. Right ? And ask yourself : "Has an IRS agent ever shown up your doorstep" ?
Lol, when I expense mine out (gas, equipment) I lose money. This is several million dollars. You can bet the IRS will knock on his door. I’m surprised the Feds didn’t sweep in to claim it was Union payroll and belongs to USA.
Tom_in_CA
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Yes, I've heard this song & dance before. That: legend class treasures are being found. But that, shucks, people are just shy, afraid of the IRS, and afraid that thieves will target them. And when I point out that valuable stuff is found and shown on our hobbyist forums, they say : That's just single gold coins, not caches, then I show them were caches were shown. So they say : Well that's small caches, not big caches.
I honestly do not think that any IRS agents are monitoring our forums, "waiting to bust the chops" of the guy who finds goodies. And heck, if any of us were really worried, all you have to do is post anonymously . AS WAS DONE IN THIS LINK ! All we know is that it's some dude from Kentucky, right ? Same with the saddle ridge hoard in CA : No one knows who the people are. Ok, problem solved. But you can BET they're relishing in the feedback, right ?
It's like if you ever accomplished a triple back flip while snow skiiing, you can BET you hope your friends saw it. Or if you accomplish the MVP NFL player status (but will up your pay and thus up your tax bracket) you can BET you'll relish your picture on the cover of Sports Illustrated (and buy an extra copy for your mother).
I know some md'rs will say they never boast, never show, never go on social media, and are just "lone rangers". But you can bet that they have *at least* a close inner circle, that, yes, they will show off any well-deserved trophy find to. Because as said : No one's an island. We are all social creatures.
rogueaviation
Full Member
I wonder how much context was actually even lost. Let's assume, deepest case, the jar was two feet deep. The detectorist dug a twelve inch hole straight down in a cornfield.
What reasonable archaeologist would say that disturbed cornfield had any context to begin with.
Plus, since the jar had been hit by a planter, it was likely, what, six inches deep? In a tilled field, the context would be completely obliterated at that depth, and likely down to 12-18". A moldboard plow, common in the Midwest until the late 80s, would turn over a good 12"....
This archaeologist's comments are disingenuous, at best.
Anyhow, my two cents, for what it's worth....
--Matt
What reasonable archaeologist would say that disturbed cornfield had any context to begin with.
Plus, since the jar had been hit by a planter, it was likely, what, six inches deep? In a tilled field, the context would be completely obliterated at that depth, and likely down to 12-18". A moldboard plow, common in the Midwest until the late 80s, would turn over a good 12"....
This archaeologist's comments are disingenuous, at best.
Anyhow, my two cents, for what it's worth....
--Matt
Tom_in_CA
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thanx for chiming in Matt.
What they are saying is noble for the work-that-they-do. Eg.: the whole "context" rationale. Because when you think of it, we do all gain from studies done, where complex detailed studies are done @ exact depth of objects, their relation to surrounding stratas of inches of other objects, their exact tilt-in-the-ground, etc.....
Take for example the archie studies around Egypt (the pyramids), or various battle monuments and forts and stages stops here in the USA. Ok, granted, it's cool to set aside some of them for the "archie-only-mindset". Sure.
But you are right in that there is just only so-much-information that can be gained from digging and holding a seated dime or buffalo nickel. At some point, after 100 of them , you have to say : "We've learned all we can learn", and the 101st seated dime TELLS YOU NOTHING MORE !
And yes, in plowed cultivated fields, or beaches (where sand comes and goes with each season & storm), then yes : All context is lost.
And to be fair, not all archies are of this "purist " mindset. But a few are.
metaladdict
Elite Member
I also wouldn't show n tell a big hoard like that neither would I publish if I won mega millions lottery winning.
This article has more info than others I have read...
www.dailymail.co.uk
Kentucky man finds 700 rare coins worth MILLIONS buried in his farm
A Kentucky man discovered over 700 rare golden dollars buried in his farm in what experts have called the 'Great Kentucky Hoard.'
The Kentucky story reminded me of this find closer to home for me...
en.wikipedia.org
Saddle Ridge Hoard - Wikipedia
rogueaviation
Full Member
Tom,
That answers a lot of the questions I had. I've only known a couple archaeologists, and they were both purists who believed that anything in the ground that isn't modern trash has an exhaustive story to tell, and that detectorists are merely plundering knowledge.
--Matt
Tom_in_CA
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Which reminds me a funny story I heard about a guy md'ing at an east coast beach years ago : He was md'ing, minding his own business. A lady archie, who just happened to be walking by, saw him. She came up and berated him, insinuating that he was doing something wrong or illegal. He assured her that there was no law or rules forbidding it .
So she started harping him that it fell afoul of "cultural heritage " (aka "artifact") language that was indeed in the boiler plate verbiage. When the md'r heard about "old" and "artifact", he gleefully opened up his apron and showed the busy-body that he was only finding new stuff, and angling for modern jewelry.
The befuddled lady archie was taken aback by this answer. And for a few moments stuttered on how to answer. She finally retorted : "... Well, maybe they aren't artifacts NOW, but in 100 yrs from now, it will be an artifact THEN. And by you taking it NOW, you rob future generations of learning about their past, rip them from context..." , blah blah blah.
Doh !
KOB
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I was torn about this same idea decades ago. It's rather easy to properly clean some gold coins yourself and gradually release them into the population over a couple short years. But this is a major hoard including high dollar rarities. With volume in the amount of coins found to be conserved , properly graded and then auctioned. I think you need the notoriety of it being labeled a hoard to maximize its auction value. Especially when you have numerous 6 figure coins. It would be very difficult today to release these rarities without experts raising suspicion on authenticity and how you obtained them. Unfortunately the finder has to bite the bullet on this at some point with Mr.Tax man. But he did find a windfall nonetheless.
Connecticut Danny
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My good friends, I am a old man of 81 years ole. While never found bury treasure, I was interested in treasure hunting since 1964. I am sure that Dennis Parada and crew is crying in their cheap beer that they did not find this treasure. Pertaining to Archaeologists and their believes that all buried treasures belong to them and to museums. I agree with them if only they spent many years in research for many years and many years in searching for buried treasure. But, there are many things wrong with that idea. Who decide where famous art works worth missions of dollars, and single collectable coins should be? Many single coins worth millions of dollars are in private collections and rare art. Let us not forgetting state and federal incomes taxes. Archaeologists and museums do not pay these taxes. Therefore our federal government and state like Connecticut will lose millions of dollars. I am honest and if find treasures, I will pay both taxes and have no fear of going to jail. In my honest opinion of being a coin collector since 1964, I believe most coins dealers are cheap and pay very little money. If I find pirate treasure in my state, I will sell the coins and jewels in top auctions in New York City. When that happen, thousands of collectors will buy silver and gold coins and jewels for ladies to wear and enjoy. Have a great life.
Cherry Picker
Forum Supporter
Years ago, back in 1988 in my case, a lot of detectorists feared the IRS would come to confiscate your stuff if they knew about your finds. I was in a 1988 Summer edition of FOUND magazine under the name T.W. Brier, actually, the name of the apartments I lived in because I was afraid if I used my real name the IRS would come for me LOL.However, haven't you noticed that show & tell is 99% of our hobby ? It's only human nature to want to give and take "high 5's". No one is an island.
And if the "IRS" is an issue, notice that there is perpetually stuff shown on our finds forums (granted , smaller amounts) and.... shucks .... that doesn't seem to stop any of us from posting our trophies. Right ? And ask yourself : "Has an IRS agent ever shown up your doorstep" ?
