What is your definition of "MASKING" ?

[harleyhummer65]

I saw a Youtube video titled:

"LIVE DIG ACTION! Foil masking coins with Nokta Legend? No problems here!"

The title really caught my attention, so I watched.
The "masking" was actually a coin and foil, about 12" apart.
Would you consider that "masking"?
Not my definition of masking, but Im courios on others thoughts?
How do YOU define masking?
Warning: Sensative viewers may find this video offensive.
Please keep it civil.
Here is a link to the said video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=986qeJvoKZA

 

[tnsharpshooter]

I consider masking anything that alters True Tone and or true ID of a nonferrous object. Some may consider it when a nonferrous target just cannot be detected with any nonferous tonal signature and or ID. Masking is not imo more shoddy ID and or tone given on fringe depth targets.

Masking can be caused by mineralization. Multi- freq helps here.
Masking can be caused by ferrous material(s)..
Masking can be caused by nonferrous material(s).

EMI affects on a VLF detector could be considered another cause as ID of target could be compromised or not even detected on any single occasion.

There will always be masked desrsble targets.
Technically targets are either not masked, partially masked or totally masked.

As detector tech/ops progresses some targets obviously can move from one state to the other becoming less masked.

So the term masking (degree wise) is detector model (coil size) dependent. Even how one model is setup settings wise.

 

[AccurateCalls]

I consider masking anything that alters True Tone and or true ID of a nonferrous object. Some may consider it when a nonferrous target just cannot be detected with any nonferous tonal signature and or ID. Masking is not imo more shoddy ID and or tone given on fringe depth targets.

Masking can be caused by mineralization. Multi- freq helps here.
Masking can be caused by ferrous material(s)..
Masking can be caused by nonferrous material(s).

EMI affects on a VLF detector could be considered another cause as ID of target could be compromised or not even detected on any single occasion.

There will always be masked desrsble targets.
Technically targets are either not masked, partially masked or totally masked.

As detector tech/ops progresses some targets obviously can move from one state to the other becoming less masked.

So the term masking (degree wise) is detector model (coil size) dependent. Even how one model is setup settings wise.

I would mostly agree.

I would change the definition to something more like "Masking is when one object's signal dominates another object's signal such that the subordinate signal becomes hidden or obfuscated."

I don't agree that mineralization hiding objects really ought to count as masking, otherwise a consequence would be that all deep objects should be considered 'masked', since ALL ground is magnetizable and at sufficient depth begins to overpower a target's response. If an object is just beyond the reach of depth for a detector, we don't consider it to be masked per se. Nor would I consider a detector being overwhelmed with EMI to be masking targets in the ground.

I don't think EMI / Ground response captures the "spirit" of what detectorists say when they are talking about masking. I definitely agree that it doesn't necessarily need to be iron doing the masking for it to be a masking situation.

But that is the cool thing about language, is that we can define masking to be whatever we want.

 

[itsaring!]

Good test for masking. Bury something silver, gold, clad, etc. Then go park your truck by it and see how far off you have to be to detect each item. A chain link fence at a ball park can mask a lot of targets.

 

[KOB]

I consider masking anything that alters True Tone and or true ID of a nonferrous object. Some may consider it when a nonferrous target just cannot be detected with any nonferous tonal signature and or ID. Masking is not imo more shoddy ID and or tone given on fringe depth targets.

Masking can be caused by mineralization. Multi- freq helps here.
Masking can be caused by ferrous material(s)..
Masking can be caused by nonferrous material(s).

EMI affects on a VLF detector could be considered another cause as ID of target could be compromised or not even detected on any single occasion.

There will always be masked desrsble targets.
Technically targets are either not masked, partially masked or totally masked.

As detector tech/ops progresses some targets obviously can move from one state to the other becoming less masked.

So the term masking (degree wise) is detector model (coil size) dependent. Even how one model is setup settings wise.

OMG TNSS. Probably the best response from you without posting a link. Simple to the point , good info. Nice

 

[Beachhunt1]

Definition of masking has to do with targets NOT SOIL/sand conditions.

Masking of a targets: Two or more targets in close proximity that change or block the proper outcome of the target if looked at separately.

HH

 

[jmaclen]

As far as the video you linked……Legend using single frequency 15 kHz…..would not have much of a problem with that combination of targets even if Paystreak was using the 11” coil.

Looked like the targets were about 8” apart. Paystreak did not show any evidence of masking either in target ID changes or tone changes due to proximity.

So I did not see any evidence of masking in that example.

As far as iron ground mineralization not causing masking…….I think that depends. Some of the ground I detect on actually causes even SMF detectors to give an actual target ID due to high iron content. Hot and cold rocks will do the same. Hot a cold rocks will absolutely mask ferrous or non-ferrous targets and these rocks are non-metallic.

Tnsharpshooter also got a big thumbs up from me for that response above.

 

[tnsharpshooter]

Yeah drive 65 miles south of me. Hot ground. Dimes at 5” won’t read right with lot of VLF detectors. Some can given iron tone and ID on those too. Looked at some targets with Fisher F75 when I was down there.
So yes this is masking going on too.
Size of target does matter in that that hot soil as far as seeing effects.
I hit a deep target reseing high conductor in this area with CTX some years ago. Gent with me had just pulled a belt plate near where I was few days earlier using blisstool detector. 45 conductor number locked in CTX screen. Turned out to be deep can. No way would CTX have done that on a dime or quarter in that soil that deep.

Folks should also note what Rattlehead has found with his Deus 2. Notice quite a few bigger silvers. Why?
Because these bigger silvers were masked to a degree, but a bigger nonferrous high conductor takes more to mask it. If s lot of these bigger silvers he dug would been actually been smaller higher conductors, good chance they would still be buried and not dug.
So the degree of a detector’s unmasking abilities as they get better (albeit slight) most likely it will be bigger high conductors found. Remember though the numbers found might not be considered significant by some. But also remember more smaller higher conductive coins lost vs bigger silvers.

 

[longbow62]

Good info tnsharpshooter. Not long ago and I wish I new what thread you mentioned it on and I hope I did not read this wrong you mentioned the Etrac and CTX unmasking better than the Equinox? I found the statement preposterous and still do. Never have I seen either of those detectors sound off on any targets the Equinox couldn't. As a matter of fact I've found the complete opposite to be true on targets in the wild many times. I call a buddy to swing over what I think is silver with his Etrac or CTX and he says I got nothing or nothing I would dig. I might add many times he was using the Nel 9.5x5.5 sharpshooter on the Etrac so you would think it had an advantage over the Equinox 11". Most of these where 6" deep and under. This does not happen with the D2. We have yet to see the Equinox or D2 not hit a target the other one did in the wild.

 

[tnsharpshooter]

Good info tnsharpshooter. Not long ago and I wish I new what thread you mentioned it on and I hope I did not read this wrong you mentioned the Etrac and CTX unmasking better than the Equinox? I found the statement preposterous and still do. Never have I seen either of those detectors sound off on any targets the Equinox couldn't. As a matter of fact I've found the complete opposite to be true on targets in the wild many times. I call a buddy to swing over what I think is silver with his Etrac or CTX and he says I got nothing or nothing I would dig. I might add many times he was using the Nel 9.5x5.5 sharpshooter on the Etrac so you would think it had an advantage over the Equinox 11". Most of these where 6" deep and under. This does not happen with the D2. We have yet to see the Equinox or D2 not hit a target the other one did in the wild.

Think I was talking about CTX and Etrac unmasking better in modern trash. The truth. In most cases. Coil size for coil size when comparing to Equinox. Assuming multi freq is used on Equinox. Now I am referring to which gives more accurate ID.
I have seen this in the wild. And can do a couple simple tests elevated above ground and show this real easy.
Guess i’ll Get my camera out.

 

[itsaring!]

Good info tnsharpshooter. Not long ago and I wish I new what thread you mentioned it on and I hope I did not read this wrong you mentioned the Etrac and CTX unmasking better than the Equinox? I found the statement preposterous and still do. Never have I seen either of those detectors sound off on any targets the Equinox couldn't. As a matter of fact I've found the complete opposite to be true on targets in the wild many times. I call a buddy to swing over what I think is silver with his Etrac or CTX and he says I got nothing or nothing I would dig. I might add many times he was using the Nel 9.5x5.5 sharpshooter on the Etrac so you would think it had an advantage over the Equinox 11". Most of these where 6" deep and under. This does not happen with the D2. We have yet to see the Equinox or D2 not hit a target the other one did in the wild.

Where i am i can get a more accurate ID using an Equinox with the 11" coil. The 15" coil gets a little confused. I said this before. During a storm event if i want to cherry pick gold and silver i'm bringing the Nox, not a Deus ll or CTX. The Deus ll is good for a " Hey i'm here dude!" May be a deep coin or a deep iron screw.

 

[tnsharpshooter]

Good info tnsharpshooter. Not long ago and I wish I new what thread you mentioned it on and I hope I did not read this wrong you mentioned the Etrac and CTX unmasking better than the Equinox? I found the statement preposterous and still do. Never have I seen either of those detectors sound off on any targets the Equinox couldn't. As a matter of fact I've found the complete opposite to be true on targets in the wild many times. I call a buddy to swing over what I think is silver with his Etrac or CTX and he says I got nothing or nothing I would dig. I might add many times he was using the Nel 9.5x5.5 sharpshooter on the Etrac so you would think it had an advantage over the Equinox 11". Most of these where 6" deep and under. This does not happen with the D2. We have yet to see the Equinox or D2 not hit a target the other one did in the wild.

Sounding off is onething. Sounding off indicating higher conductor another.
I did a video.
Comparing Equinox 800, Etrac and Deus 2 if you care to go watch. I don’t post links here anymore.
Btw smaller coil can have negative affects on a detector in modern trash vs say 11 inch coil. It is scenario dependent. Can work the other way too.

 

[woodbutcher]

Good test for masking. Bury something silver, gold, clad, etc. Then go park your truck by it and see how far off you have to be to detect each item. A chain link fence at a ball park can mask a lot of targets.

I can mask any coin in my test bed with a paperclip, found that out after I couldn't find my 6 inch Merc with the nox. Ran the pinpointer over the grass and sure enough a paperclip I use for hanging Christmas decorations was just under the grass but on top of the dirt. Nox was blind to the coin..

 

[itsaring!]

I can mask any coin in my test bed with a paperclip, found that out after I couldn't find my 6 inch Merc with the nox. Ran the pinpointer over the grass and sure enough a paperclip I use for hanging Christmas decorations was just under the grass but on top of the dirt. Nox was blind to the coin..

Hopefully Santa is bringing you a Santicore

 

[woodbutcher]

Hopefully Santa is bringing you a Santicore

Lol,not a chance. I'm actually good with the nox,can't see me finding more everytime a company sees sales dropping and decide to rework old tech

 

[longbow62]

Ha! You'll have a Manticore eventually. I'd bet money on it.

 

[markinswpa]

Ha! You'll have a Manticore eventually. I'd bet money on it.

Ha ha I'm with you longbow. He can't resist that magic bullet. He'll pull the trigger sooner than later. Me I haven't seen a higher end machine from Minelab yet that can't get the job done. I've already ordered one.

 

[tnsharpshooter]

Ha ha I'm with you longbow. He can't resist that magic bullet. He'll pull the trigger sooner than later. Me I haven't seen a higher end machine from Minelab yet that can't get the job done. I've already ordered one.

Yeah.
Minelab not one to sell snake oil.
They got where they did for a reason.
And most of us know how.

 

[jmaryt]

Lol,not a chance. I'm actually good with the nox,can't see me finding more everytime a company sees sales dropping and decide to rework old tech

yeah! this has me thinking that's exactly what minelab may be doing here!..after all ya can't change physics.it's a gamble, and I want to be "dead nuts" certain this
detector can "find" "MORE" in "cooked" public parks than ANYTHING presently available.

(h.h.!)
j.t.

 

[harleyhummer65]

yeah! this has me thinking that's exactly what minelab may be doing here!..after all ya can't change physics.it's a gamble, and I want to be "dead nuts" certain this
detector can "find" "MORE" in "cooked" public parks than ANYTHING presently available.

(h.h.!)
j.t.

Hopefully, the new Minelab "defines masking" just a little better, than the video in the 1st post of this thread represents!