Frequency and the ability to separate targets at a closer proximity.

[Cherry Picker]

I'm not sure if this is what you're referring to CP, but what about:

Put a piece of foil or pull tab right beside, or on top of a high conductor coin. A low frequency will ID the coin significantly better than higher frequencies.

No. That would be the current hitting both targets at the same time. I'm talking about the spacing between a high & low conductive set of targets. The higher frequencies, with closer wavelengths, seem to separate the two better. If you watch some of Gary's videos you'll see 31 kHz & 51 kHz seem to give the best response, both audio & VDI, on even high conductive targets live in the ground.

 

[Coin-Saver]

Seems to me you are referring to separation, as in identifying between two objects in very close proximity. as apposed to unmasking, as in two objects orientated as one yet the machine picking the good target from the bad.

 

[IDXMonster]

This is all part of what makes this a fascinating hobby….we CANNOT know what is going to happen in every situation because every situation is different to varying degrees. Unfortunately there are not many constants in the hobby other than controlled testing which can show certain things, but as we all know (I hope) once things get in the ground and are buried for a time…things can be different. VERY different.
As an end user I can only go out and run various ways, and keep a mental note of what I found. I don’t have any other way of knowing what’s going on. Do I WANT to know the optimal setup in all sites? Of course. Can I? Not necessarily.

 

[Cherry Picker]

Seems to me you are referring to separation, as in identifying between two objects in very close proximity. as apposed to unmasking, as in two objects orientated as one yet the machine picking the good target from the bad.

Corrent.

I think I found my answer. I don't think the spacing between Eddy current frequencies could be used to aid in separation. At least not in the way I was thinking.

 

[sube]

Very low frequency can eliminate small foil and tiny bits of metal from even being detected. So separation from those would be instant. I see lots of videos on line claiming things, but using frequency and spacing pretested as tricks. Tricks that are almost useless in the real world. Doing your own testing is key to getting ahead.

Very low frequency can eliminate small foil and tiny bits of metal from even being detected.

This is true but your still not separating anything say a dime compared to pieces of foil the dimes return signal is much larger than the foil dime wins .Take a dime and one pull-tab the dime will still win using lower freq (BUT) that dime is still influenced by the tab then add another tab and another at some point the tab return signal will be larger than the dime and now we get a tab signal even though we use a lower freq favoring the dime .
There both under the coil at the same time (NO SEPARATION).
So the target with the larger return will always win or sway the ID to it .
As I said before there is no separation you can only physically separate using the coil the deeper the targets the more likely the machine will blend together and give wrong ID and wrong tone .
Some one will say I dug a small dime with a boatload of nails I will say the dimes signal was the dominant signal and that's why you heard it or you got your coil in the exact spot where the dimes return was larger than the nails.
Most newer detectors have a better ability of reducing the ground signal and EMI noise cancel from the coin and the use of muti coils let's one find more of the coins available to this tech but the tech has not changed only been more refined . sube

 

[sube]

This is all part of what makes this a fascinating hobby….we CANNOT know what is going to happen in every situation because every situation is different to varying degrees. Unfortunately there are not many constants in the hobby other than controlled testing which can show certain things, but as we all know (I hope) once things get in the ground and are buried for a time…things can be different. VERY different.
As an end user I can only go out and run various ways, and keep a mental note of what I found. I don’t have any other way of knowing what’s going on. Do I WANT to know the optimal setup in all sites? Of course. Can I? Not necessarily.

You know Kevin the more I think about it the more I see there is no special program just as using different coils that unlock coins . The ground is always changing trash level iron level EMI level and mineral level so there is no magic program but many different programs to choose they all well find coins other programs won't same can be said for coils .
Just have to use the tech that's available the best we can that's all we have . sube

 

[KevinNC]

You know Kevin the more I think about it the more I see there is no special program just as using different coils that unlock coins . The ground is always changing trash level iron level EMI level and mineral level so there is no magic program but many different programs to choose they all well find coins other programs won't same can be said for coils .
Just have to use the tech that's available the best we can that's all we have . sube

I use the Deus 2 now and this is why I ignore people posting their super programs for everyone to use. Just because I find settings that work good in my area, doesn't mean it will work at all somewhere else. Have to know what all the settings do and adjust them to each site.

 

[Diga]

I use the Deus 2 now and this is why I ignore people posting their super programs for everyone to use. Just because I find settings that work good in my area, doesn't mean it will work at all somewhere else. Have to know what all the settings do and adjust them to each site.

Agreed. Further to that, it also depends on what type of trash is in the ground, and what the hunter is looking for.

For example, in iron infested sites, I use a high weighted SMF mode and a low iron bias. If I'm looking for gold jewelery in a park like environment, then I'll discriminate out high conductors, otherwise I would just be digging constant clad. Plus, most gold jewelery doesn't ID in the high conductor range.

 

[Cherry Picker]

I use the Deus 2 now and this is why I ignore people posting their super programs for everyone to use. Just because I find settings that work good in my area, doesn't mean it will work at all somewhere else. Have to know what all the settings do and adjust them to each site.

The more time I spend, the more I understand that the real key is to know how to make the necessary adjustments on the fly. Every site is best to get the needed tweaks for that site and at that time and conditions. Here is where I see A.I. in the future for metal detecting. A detector that can analyze and make the best adjustments to fit the site at that time on its own. Just turn on and swing.

But then, there will always be those who think they can out-tweak a computer.

 

[KevinNC]

The more time I spend, the more I understand that the real key is to know how to make the necessary adjustments on the fly. Every site is best to get the needed tweaks for that site and at that time and conditions. Here is where I see A.I. in the future for metal detecting. A detector that can analyze and make the best adjustments to fit the site at that time on its own. Just turn on and swing.

But then, there will always be those who think they can out-tweak a computer.

Disc and notch does some strange things on the Deus 2 that I am still trying to figure out. No other machine I've seen is anything like it.

 

[Coin-Saver]

I use the Deus 2 now and this is why I ignore people posting their super programs for everyone to use. Just because I find settings that work good in my area, doesn't mean it will work at all somewhere else. Have to know what all the settings do and adjust them to each site.

This is the exact reason why I believe that no site is ever hunted out. Not only do you have variances in machine settings, how our ears work on a certain day, focus etc, you also have how wet or dry the ground is. Not to mention changes in swing speed on a given day if you're in a hurry. In my area freezing and thawing will make a difference from year to year. Then we have the tones we passed on many times and on a particular day it hit different and it sounded better.

The first 4 years or so that I detected, when I would detect the local school yard it was only a few blocks from my house so I would always comb the boulevard in front of my house on the way and on the way back home. I had hit the particulate boulevard was maybe 20' from the sidewalk to the road and two lots long. I had hunted it so much that I knew almost every shitty signal just before I got to it. After those years of detecting and finds slowing down I started digging those shitty signals. THAT taught me one thing........ That the learning had just begun. I understand why people don't like digging every signal because the older I get I'm not as much of a fan of it. but what it will do is humble you on what you THOUGHT you knew. After 4 years one of those shitty signals turned out to be a barber dime in a hole with a few rusted nails at 3" and another turned out to be a gold ring in a hole with a chunk of can slaw and other misc trash. There are just to many factors to KNOW everything.

 

[IDXMonster]

This is the exact reason why I believe that no site is ever hunted out. Not only do you have variances in machine settings, how our ears work on a certain day, focus etc, you also have how wet or dry the ground is. Not to mention changes in swing speed on a given day if you're in a hurry. In my area freezing and thawing will make a difference from year to year. Then we have the tones we passed on many times and on a particular day it hit different and it sounded better.

The first 4 years or so that I detected, when I would detect the local school yard it was only a few blocks from my house so I would always comb the boulevard in front of my house on the way and on the way back home. I had hit the particulate boulevard was maybe 20' from the sidewalk to the road and two lots long. I had hunted it so much that I knew almost every shitty signal just before I got to it. After those years of detecting and finds slowing down I started digging those shitty signals. THAT taught me one thing........ That the learning had just begun. I understand why people don't like digging every signal because the older I get I'm not as much of a fan of it. but what it will do is humble you on what you THOUGHT you knew. After 4 years one of those shitty signals turned out to be a barber dime in a hole with a few rusted nails at 3" and another turned out to be a gold ring in a hole with a chunk of can slaw and other misc trash. There are just to many factors to KNOW everything.

“There are just too many factors to know everything”….the makings of an elite hunter such as here are planted firmly in what they do not know…yet. People who hunt ONLY public ground HAVE to want to know more than the average permission hunter because it winds up being two totally different disciplines. One (the permission hunter) is banking solely on finding productive new ground while the other (the public ground hunter) is constantly learning how to make old ground more productive.

 

[Melbeta]

Ahhhh! A good subject, that is Frequency. It is related to RESONANCE but is not exactly resonance itself. I used to notice there were differences between target's RESONANCE related to detector response. Somewhere in my file folders, I have that material saved, but not sure exactly where right now.

Now target SEPARATION is another subject as well, and while it is responsive to RESONANCE, it has its own problems related to each of the various kinds of designed detectors certain circuits I believe.

I prefer using TR machines, rather then using VLF machines myself, as I find I can find more of the older FAINT SIGNALS with the TR machines. Now I tested my various TR machines, with varous VLF machines, in my own test beds, which I left at the property I sold in the past. Now Why? Because the VLF units use TARGET FILTERS, to remove trash targets and to remove mineralization targets as well. And I am going to speculate with this statement, the older TR machines, as being older in circuit designs, DID NOT have TARGET FILTERS. That design, came from the necessity of trying to make the VLF PHASE SHIFTING DISCRIMINATION circuits more efficient in design, and more efficient in target rejection and useage by the users....

Anyone like to, or know how to respond and explain what they know relative to Resonance and to SPERATION USING RESONANCE CIRCUITS as filters??? As I recall, in the past, the chief engineer of Compass Electronics, back in time, John some name or the other, did specification tests, in areas in Washington and Oregon states, before he passed away...
MELBETA

 

[Cherry Picker]