Big Boys Hobbies

For those that can't afford a detector , but still want to search for items. Or for those who want to add another type of detector .

I have heard both sides of this ongoing story and at one point I did see a person locate a buried pipe. I tried and failed. In one sense I think if you believe in something so much, in some form it may come to pass, or at least in your mind it worked. I do agree that I have not read any scientific paper or proof that it does indeed work. However, scientists have been wrong before right. In this particular case everyone is right till proven wrong. The believers should do controlled test to prove their theory, the disbelievers should do the same to dispel the beliefs. Is that fair?
 
hoser said:
In this particular case everyone is right till proven wrong. The believers should do controlled test to prove their theory, the disbelievers should do the same to dispel the beliefs. Is that fair?
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That's not how it works. Those making the extraordinary claims need to demonstrate that they are true, it's not that we accept them as true unless proven otherwise. And as Tom and I have said, there have been controlled studies, and those making the claims have failed every time.
 
Then it all boils down to what people believe, and what they don't believe. To me this is just a stalemate. No one is right, and no one is wrong.
 
If we had a, “Competitive brand x vs. brand z” thread we could then have a Nokta Legend vs. dowsing rod comparison.

😎
 
hoser said:
Then it all boils down to what people believe, and what they don't believe. To me this is just a stalemate. No one is right, and no one is wrong.
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No, it doesn't boil down to what people may or may not believe. "Believing" something is true doesn't actually make it true, no matter how deeply or passionately you may wish to believe. No matter how strongly I wish to believe that I have a billion dollars in my bank account, my bank continues to deny me the withdrawal of those funds. There are mechanisms we can employ to test the validity of these sorts of claims (dowsing, remote viewing, bank deposits...as just three examples). When we do just that, the claims fail. If we utilize you methodology...ignore science and just believe something is true depsite evidence to the contrary...we end up with things like the recent "Titan" tragedy.
 
I say try it. There is nothing to fear about it. Cost is very small. I have only had luck on lager broken cast items. I never really tried coin shooting . But i believe someone really in tune with them probably could. I only have used them with the thought towards larger items. I think if you have a problem with failure you might have a hard time,but i really don't know. It was meant to be a ideal to people who want to hunt old foundation or homesteads for larger cache or metal items, but don't have the funds for a detector .
 
For me it does seem like different days, weather or other factors play a role in it. Some days i feel like a million bucks,some days like a zinc penny.
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Dog the Treasure Hunter said:
I say try it. There is nothing to fear about it. ....
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Here's the problem : Let's say a skeptic did as you said, and "tried it". And it didn't work. The skeptic determines that it is nothing more than subconscious tipping of the rods, using subtle visual terrain clues. And his results show it is nothing better than random chance. Ie.: He showed that it "doesn't work".

Then would you allow the conclusion to be that it "doesn't work" ? OF COURSE NOT ! The faithful would merely say that he "needs more practice". Eg.: If he'd done it for a week, he needs 2 weeks. If he did it for 2 weeks, then he needs 2 months. If he did it for 2 months, then he needs 2 yrs. Or else, shucks, durned those sun-spots anyhow, eh ?
 
Tom_in_CA said:
Here's the problem : Let's say a skeptic did as you said, and "tried it". And it didn't work. The skeptic determines that it is nothing more than subconscious tipping of the rods, using subtle visual terrain clues. And his results show it is nothing better than random chance. Ie.: He showed that it "doesn't work".

Then would you allow the conclusion to be that it "doesn't work" ? OF COURSE NOT ! The faithful would merely say that he "needs more practice". Eg.: If he'd done it for a week, he needs 2 weeks. If he did it for 2 weeks, then he needs 2 months. If he did it for 2 months, then he needs 2 yrs. Or else, shucks, durned those sun-spots anyhow, eh ?
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If its a problem for you that's fine. If it doesn't for him, then its doesn't work for him. No need for science or lab work on that.
 
Dog the Treasure Hunter said:
Interesting statement .
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Flies only is right. When you find people for whom "it worked", it can be chalked up to random eventual chance, subtle terrain clues", etc.....

There has to be proof beyond anecdotal subjective experience. It has to work in double blind controlled tests.

Just as a metal detector can be swung over a coin (or a coin waved in front of the coil) 100 times, by 100 random people, and it will "beep for all of them" (even if they have "no practice"). So too, if dowsing is going to be chalked up to something scientific, it would need to be shown.

HOWEVER, if you're going to chalk up "works" to something supernatural , then you've entered into an entirely different arena. And then you might as well be consulting ouija boards or tarot cards. But notice that most dowsing advocates will IMMEDIATELY distance themselves from such explanations of "works". And insist that it is somehow scientific. Ok, that's fine. Then in that case it's only fair for the skeptic to say : "Let's see" .
 
Tom_in_CA said:
Flies only is right. When you find people for whom "it worked", it can be chalked up to random eventual chance, subtle terrain clues", etc.....

There has to be proof beyond anecdotal subjective experience. It has to work in double blind controlled tests.

Just as a metal detector can be swung over a coin (or a coin waved in front of the coil) 100 times, by 100 random people, and it will "beep for all of them" (even if they have "no practice"). So too, if dowsing is going to be chalked up to something scientific, it would need to be shown.

HOWEVER, if you're going to chalk up "works" to something supernatural , then you've entered into an entirely different arena. And then you might as well be consulting ouija boards or tarot cards. But notice that most dowsing advocates will IMMEDIATELY distance themselves from such explanations of "works". And insist that it is somehow scientific. Ok, that's fine. Then in that case it's only fair for the skeptic to say : "Let's see" .
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I really don't understand what your point is. Its to complex for me. I take it that you don't believe in it. I Am fine with that. Metal detecting is fun, I enjoy it. I also enjoy finding things by a different means. like a intuitive means. But i understand a lot of people don't believe in that. But i don't let that stop me from intuitive searching . Its great to be a free man.
 
Is there a Paranormal, UFO thread on here? Or is one in the planning stages . Let me try a clairvoyant guess . I got good odds to bet on it. Its either yes or no. I say yes.
 
Dog the Treasure Hunter said:
Is there a Paranormal, UFO thread on here? Or is one in the planning stages . Let me try a clairvoyant guess . I got good odds to bet on it. Its either yes or no. I say yes.
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Wow, we're actually interacting a thread dealing with the "paranormal" and you make a daring and gutsy "clairvoyant guess" that there's a thread in this forum dealing with the paranormal, and will then later be able to claim that you could sense that there was a thread dealing with the paranormal, which is therefore proof of the paranormal.
 
FliesOnly said:
Wow, we're actually interacting a thread dealing with the "paranormal" and you make a daring and gutsy "clairvoyant guess" that there's a thread in this forum dealing with the paranormal, and will then later be able to claim that you could sense that there was a thread dealing with the paranormal, which is therefore proof of the paranormal.
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F-O, this is par for the course when discussing dowsing with dowsing proponents. It's almost comical : They will try to say it's "scientific" (some sort of "attraction" of the rods to the object). But when they see that failing, then they will turn to some mystical or supernatural explanation. But then they see that that puts them in the arena of "spooks" and "ghosts", so they immediately retreat back to scientific. It's fun to see the dance going on. They just can't decide, since : Either explanation puts them in a pickle :)
 
For me the dowsing for larger metallic items seems to be a magnetic field. I think some people think its paranormal like map dowsers. I believe in a paranormal existence also. Do i do any scientific study or lab work, nope. I just go out and have enjoyment doing it. I leave the scientific stuff up to scientists .
 
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