Firearms pics and discussion

[medicchief]

Had a riot this last weekend at NRA/WC out in New Mexico!

Shot targets out to 1123yds.

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The target is the small white spot in the bare patch just into the tree line.
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I was curious what your effective range is....6.5 Creedmoor is a sweet round. 26 inch barrel?

 

[Longhair]

I was curious what your effective range is....6.5 Creedmoor is a sweet round. 26 inch barrel?

Effective on game, or effective to connect on a target?
On large game (deer or antelope) I wouldn't try much further than 400yds or so, partly because I'm an ethical hunter, and part of my ethics involves woodmanship. It's not about how far I can shoot, it's about how close I can get. Also, the desire for a clean ethical kill is important on animals that deserve respect.
On smaller game (varmints like coyotes or woodchucks) I might try out to around 800yds. Hitting something as small as that @ 800yds is a serious challenge, in part because it requires some serious glass, but also because of the effect of crosswind deflection and quite possibly mirage.

On targets (paper or steel) it's easily good to 1400-1500yds. The projectile hits the trans-sonic phase right around there, and other factors start entering in. It can score hits out to a mile (1760yds) or more, but the variables start stacking up pretty quickly when shooting that distance and beyond, often requiring several rounds to connect.

Of course, making consistent hits on long range objectives requires ammunition that is tailored to the particular weapon. I wouldn't expect to do it with factory ammo. I spend considerable time at the reloading bench and on the range to achieve what I deem acceptable consistent loads. A chronograph is a virtually indispensable piece of equipment. To get the numbers I'm looking for (velocity, extreme spread, and standard deviation) involves much more than simply jockeying powder charge weights and bullet selection. It employs varying seating depth, neck tension, and anything else that can reduce fluctuations. Attention even needs to be paid to things like powder selection, to avoid temperature stability issues that effect pressures and velocities.

There is a lot involved when playing the long range game. It's more than just buying a capable weapon and a box of ammo, or having the basics of marksmanship pretty well mastered. It's also a giant physics problem. Things like "spin drift" enter the equation, and when attempting shots much beyond 1500yds even the direction you're shooting relative to the earth's rotation become considerations that have to be accounted for.
It's a fun game, and not unlike metal detecting it's the challenge that makes it fun. Also like metal detecting, if you don't put the time and research into it, it can be terribly frustrating. If you choose to go down the rabbit hole, do yourself a favor and read as much as you can absorb first. Know what you're getting into, because it's not an inexpensive endeavor.

 

[zeemang]

Longhair,
Seems you are very much in to the technical side of shooting, it's a whole lot of variables to consider when making shots way out there.
One of my favorite guys on youtube is mainly an airgunner but he is pretty good with the center fire as well, check this out if you have a minute, you might enjoy his stuff, very technical as well...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZm1Re96VPM

 

[Longhair]

Longhair,
Seems you are very much in to the technical side of shooting, it's a whole lot of variables to consider when making shots way out there.
One of my favorite guys on youtube is mainly an airgunner but he is pretty good with the center fire as well, check this out if you have a minute, you might enjoy his stuff, very technical as well...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZm1Re96VPM

Thanks!
I've seen some of his stuff before, and it's all good info. There are videos of guys in New Zealand culling goats at long range that are impressive too.

One thing that I want to point out, is that these folks taking game at long range are shooting primarily magnum cartridge guns, not 6.5Creedmoor. Creedmoors do well at distance, but for taking larger animals you need more steam and terminal energy that larger caliber magnums offer.

And if you want to watch videos that are serious extreme long range, look up Ko2M on YouTube. These are videos of the "King of 2 Mile" competitions, where they are shooting @ targets 3520yds away!

 

[zeemang]

Longhair, funny, i watched the king of 2 mile a few days ago! Serious distance and weird elevations by the looks of it.

 

[Longhair]

Longhair, funny, i watched the king of 2 mile a few days ago! Serious distance and weird elevations by the looks of it.

Those guys really push the limits. For fun and to test the technology they even shoot further. Paul Phillips (current Ko2M) has scored hits on target @ 3.4 miles! That's 625 MOA trajectory, and it takes about 17 seconds in flight for the round to get there.

 

[medicchief]

Effective on game, or effective to connect on a target?
On large game (deer or antelope) I wouldn't try much further than 400yds or so, partly because I'm an ethical hunter, and part of my ethics involves woodmanship. It's not about how far I can shoot, it's about how close I can get. Also, the desire for a clean ethical kill is important on animals that deserve respect.
On smaller game (varmints like coyotes or woodchucks) I might try out to around 800yds. Hitting something as small as that @ 800yds is a serious challenge, in part because it requires some serious glass, but also because of the effect of crosswind deflection and quite possibly mirage.

On targets (paper or steel) it's easily good to 1400-1500yds. The projectile hits the trans-sonic phase right around there, and other factors start entering in. It can score hits out to a mile (1760yds) or more, but the variables start stacking up pretty quickly when shooting that distance and beyond, often requiring several rounds to connect.

Of course, making consistent hits on long range objectives requires ammunition that is tailored to the particular weapon. I wouldn't expect to do it with factory ammo. I spend considerable time at the reloading bench and on the range to achieve what I deem acceptable consistent loads. A chronograph is a virtually indispensable piece of equipment. To get the numbers I'm looking for (velocity, extreme spread, and standard deviation) involves much more than simply jockeying powder charge weights and bullet selection. It employs varying seating depth, neck tension, and anything else that can reduce fluctuations. Attention even needs to be paid to things like powder selection, to avoid temperature stability issues that effect pressures and velocities.

There is a lot involved when playing the long range game. It's more than just buying a capable weapon and a box of ammo, or having the basics of marksmanship pretty well mastered. It's also a giant physics problem. Things like "spin drift" enter the equation, and when attempting shots much beyond 1500yds even the direction you're shooting relative to the earth's rotation become considerations that have to be accounted for.
It's a fun game, and not unlike metal detecting it's the challenge that makes it fun. Also like metal detecting, if you don't put the time and research into it, it can be terribly frustrating. If you choose to go down the rabbit hole, do yourself a favor and read as much as you can absorb first. Know what you're getting into, because it's not an inexpensive endeavor.

I am prior service, not a true weapons expert, but do have a good knowledge bas.......So yes, so many variables to consider. I was curious to your barrel length, thinking 26-28 was optimum. Maybe 28 having best powder burn, but wasn't sure. Maybe best velocity is with a 26...? What did you say your barrel length is? My brother built a Howa.....it is sweet!

 

[Longhair]

I am prior service, not a true weapons expert, but do have a good knowledge bas.......So yes, so many variables to consider. I was curious to your barrel length, thinking 26-28 was optimum. Maybe 28 having best powder burn, but wasn't sure. Maybe best velocity is with a 26...? What did you say your barrel length is? My brother built a Howa.....it is sweet!

Mine is 24", but it gets a little extra push from the can. If they had offered a 26" threaded barrel then that's what I would have preferred, but alas...the available 26" isn't. When I re-barrel it I will go with a 26". The volume of the .308 parent case isn't sufficiently large enough to take advantage of a longer barrel.

 

[graybeard]

This went from what guns people own to shooting accurate. I have yet to see anyone that makes a video that shows the best way to hold a rifle to shoot so they hit a target. All they show me is how they shoot at a target, not the best way to hit what they are shooting at... all they do is lob bullets at a targets.

That is why the military use a spotter, to tell the sniper where they hit.

I have been shooting close to 60 years, and get irritated when I see some so-called expert showing on a video of how to shoot.

 

[Longhair]

This went from what guns people own to shooting accurate. I have yet to see anyone that makes a video that shows the best way to hold a rifle to shoot so they hit a target. All they show me is how they shoot at a target, not the best way to hit what they are shooting at... all they do is lob bullets at a targets.

That is why the military use a spotter, to tell the sniper where they hit.

I have been shooting close to 60 years, and get irritated when I see some so-called expert showing on a video of how to shoot.

I'm not sure how to respond to this. Is there a question in there? I might be able to point you in the direction of what you want to know if you give me a better idea of what exactly you are looking for.
When you talk about "the best way to hold a rifle to shoot so they hit a target", are you referring to how to hold the rifle, or what the sight picture looks like when correcting a hold? Two very different things.

And spotters do more than spot misses. Another important part of their job is to make wind calls based on available indicators (flags, vegetation, mirage, etc...).

Anyway, if you could please clarify your post a bit more I'll do my best to address it. Or, we could start a separate thread so we don't clutter this one up.