advice on buying a muzzle loader

Robespierre · Feb 28, 2018

I hope this is an ok topic for this forum. I have a few hunting rifles etc and have been increasingly interested in purchasing a black powder muzzle loaded flintlock. The available options are overwhelming me, I'm curious if anyone prefers a specific maker and type and why or why not. Also I'm not looking for a modern design. Thanks all.

BaldAssCat · Feb 28, 2018

I only have a few black powder guns myself but I enjoy my Brown Bess from Pedersoli. Really good quality and there's nothing like sending a 700 grain ball downrange with fire you got from a rock.

The others I have are a modern inline CVA I picked up to extend deer season but sits in it's case collecting dust now, a Traditions Hawkens half stock I built from a kit, a Traditions Kentucky pistol from a kit and a Pietta 1858 New Army revolver.

Here's my understanding of the black powder world. Some from experience, some from word of mouth so take it for what it is.

Indian. Cheap price, put powder in it at your own risk. I've never heard a good word about them from anyone.

Spanish made like CVA and Traditions are generally thought of as the low end of the quality range. The kits I built were problems the entire way but I think they were put together with parts the guys at the factory didn't want to work with.If you have the means I'd look elsewhere. If you're on a budget and don't mind tinkering they work and are more accurate than I am.

Thompson Center is a good quality American manufacturer. A good standard and not too badly priced. I don't own one myself but have fired more than a few and like them very much. The locks feel solid and have a good snap to the spring. I've never had a strike / no spark or a flash in the pan with one that wasn't me loading it wrong or not keeping the flint sharp. I think S&W owns them now so I don't know if this is still true but their customer service supposed to be excellent.

Italians, meaning Pedersoli, Pietta, Uberti and the like are high quality and well regarded but come with a matching price tag. I really like the Italian guns I own and ones my friends let me try. Pricey but worth it if you have the cash.

If you have the time and inclination the kits are fun. The Traditions kits I have were gifts and I'm not getting another one but I am looking at Lyman and Pedersoli kits. Or I might piece one together from Track of the Wolf. I haven't decided yet and the ground is thawing enough that my time is spend pulling can slaw. I'll be looking for something fun to do next winter though.

Hope this helps.

Mud-puppy · Mar 1, 2018

Its been a long time for me too...Back in '1980, I Worked with a guy who started on one but never finished, so he sold me what he had... a tiger maple stock roughed out, a blank .54 cal GR Douglas barrel, set triggers...lock plate assembly, various odds N ends... ...percussion...Back then we didnt have no internet or youtube vids, all I was going off of was a general idea and the Foxfire book....I didnt know what I was doing, I was just a kid out of Highschool...

I made the rear site out of a RR spike, front site was out of a silver dime...also cut a new sideplate for the lock mechanism out of a piece of flat stock...Now, this was all by hand, hacksaw, files, handdrill and taps, rasps, woodworking carving knives and chisels etc...I do remember working on that curly maple stock was a real B on account of no straight grain!...

I somehow managed to get it all put together, and thanks to a quality barrel, it was one dead on accurate rig! Carved a charging buffalo in the stock even...Pawned it off for $250 in Rapid City SD when we needed some money...I still have some left over parts around here!... :laughing:

So I think theres probably still a place where you can buy all the components and do it yourself? This way, you can choose the grade of the stock and components and build your own personal rig thats not from a Kit?

Best yet is if you can find an old guy in your AO that is into flintlock building and go spend some time in his shop! You know he's got everything you need and would probably enjoy showing you what he has learned...

Some guys are extremely talented with metal, others with wood...a gunsmith has to be good working with both...thats the art and challenge!...Good on ya!

Mud-puppy · Mar 1, 2018

Robespierre said:
I hope this is an ok topic for this forum. I have a few hunting rifles etc and have been increasingly interested in purchasing a black powder muzzle loaded flintlock. The available options are overwhelming me, I'm curious if anyone prefers a specific maker and type and why or why not. Also I'm not looking for a modern design. Thanks all.

Oh heck...To buy one already complete? I'd look for a local builder/hobbiest...There was an old guy around here who built custom flint locks as a hobby...Named Ted Ehren...the guy was a master! His rigs sold upwards of $2500....I dont know what ever happened to him...I met him somewhere along the line and he invited me over to his house 20yrs ago..Me and my Cousin went and we learned a whole lot! I remember he 'swamped' his barrels, which is really very old timey...just gorgeous rifles!

He even built a side by side double barrel Flintlock! He had to fab up a special jig, clamp in both barrels, gently tack weld, then he would load both and fire them to see where they were hitting, then he would adjust some little screws and tack weld some more, then he would fire, then he would adjust and tack...then the would fire and adjust/tack and fire again until he got it right......He wanted both barrels to be hitting in the same hole at 100yds...

He did wonderful stockwork with metal decorative inlays of gold and silver wire...If I ever had the money, I'd try to chase down a rifle he built...the guy was a perfectionist! I'm gonna google his name right now...Nope..not a damn thing about this guy on the interwebs...and so it goes...Master skills lost to the ages...

BaldAssCat · Mar 1, 2018

Mud-puppy said:
So I think theres probably still a place where you can buy all the components and do it yourself? This way, you can choose the grade of the stock and components and build your own personal rig thats not from a Kit?

TrackOfTheWolf is one of those places that will sell you a kit or the parts, any way you want to build it.

One of my other favorite forum haunts is the muzzleloadingforum. I like read the gun builders bench section but I mostly lurk, I have nothing useful I can add to what these guys are saying. They're very helpful with questions though and there isn't anything muzzle loader related somebody there can't tell you.

Ohiodigger · Mar 1, 2018

BaldAssCat said:
I only have a few black powder guns myself but I enjoy my Brown Bess from Pedersoli. Really good quality and there's nothing like sending a 700 grain ball downrange with fire you got from a rock.

The others I have are a modern inline CVA I picked up to extend deer season but sits in it's case collecting dust now, a Traditions Hawkens half stock I built from a kit, a Traditions Kentucky pistol from a kit and a Pietta 1858 New Army revolver.

Here's my understanding of the black powder world. Some from experience, some from word of mouth so take it for what it is.

Indian. Cheap price, put powder in it at your own risk. I've never heard a good word about them from anyone.

Spanish made like CVA and Traditions are generally thought of as the low end of the quality range. The kits I built were problems the entire way but I think they were put together with parts the guys at the factory didn't want to work with.If you have the means I'd look elsewhere. If you're on a budget and don't mind tinkering they work and are more accurate than I am.

Thompson Center is a good quality American manufacturer. A good standard and not too badly priced. I don't own one myself but have fired more than a few and like them very much. The locks feel solid and have a good snap to the spring. I've never had a strike / no spark or a flash in the pan with one that wasn't me loading it wrong or not keeping the flint sharp. I think S&W owns them now so I don't know if this is still true but their customer service supposed to be excellent.

Italians, meaning Pedersoli, Pietta, Uberti and the like are high quality and well regarded but come with a matching price tag. I really like the Italian guns I own and ones my friends let me try. Pricey but worth it if you have the cash.

If you have the time and inclination the kits are fun. The Traditions kits I have were gifts and I'm not getting another one but I am looking at Lyman and Pedersoli kits. Or I might piece one together from Track of the Wolf. I haven't decided yet and the ground is thawing enough that my time is spend pulling can slaw. I'll be looking for something fun to do next winter though.

Hope this helps.

X2 I only shoot flintlocks, hunt with them too. They are a lot of fun, I enjoy the nostalgia of using one, I had a Pedersoli a few years back, sold it, wish I didn't now. They are top notch muzzleloaders, I have a 45 cal flintlock now, not a Pedersoli but another Italian gun, if I get a chance Ill post a pic.

Ohiodigger · Mar 1, 2018

Here ya go, the FIE stands for "For Import Export" they made repro rifles of like Kentucky longs and such, not high end but it shoots well and is fun to shoot too.

Silversmith45 · Mar 1, 2018

I have had several Hawken style muzzle loaders. My most expensive one I loaned out and never saw it again. They can be accurate and are a lot of fun to shoot but I got tired of cleaning them. I even had a couple of cap and ball revolvers. I might try again but I no longer live on a farm where I could shoot as much as I wanted to.

georgeinsc · Mar 1, 2018

I have a few muzzle loading rifles and one black powder hand gun. I can not shoot a flintlock accurately as i flinch when the powder in the pan ignites.

BaldAssCat · Mar 1, 2018

georgeinsc said:
I have a few muzzle loading rifles and one black powder hand gun. I can not shoot a flintlock accurately as i flinch when the powder in the pan ignites.

I get that when I over prime the pan or use a BP substitute.

Bill_Ace_350 · Mar 2, 2018

Only experience I have is with percussion caps, not flint locks.

I have TC .50 cal Hawken and a CVA .54 cal Hawken.

Fun to shoot, but must be thoroughly cleaned after use.

You can go black powder, pyrodex powder, or pyrodex pellets,

I'm a patch and roundball person, even for hunting,

Lots of fun.

Mud-puppy · Mar 2, 2018

A lot of the guys my age that used to shoot BP have transitioned over to air rifles.

As stated, just easier to have and shoot nowadays...right in your own backyard...

bowwinkles · Mar 2, 2018

Robespierre, I don't know if they are still available but I have built several from kits and the Hawken style was my favorite. If you take this route you can adapt features that fit your style and finish and depending on how talented you are it will reflect the quality of the finished product. Good luck on your choice and you will be enjoying a very old hobby that many of us still use.

https://www.traditionsfirearms.com/category/Build-it-Yourself-Kits

georgeinsc · Mar 3, 2018

Log Cabin Shop in Lodi Oh is an excellent source of everything Muzzleloading. I was very impressed with their collection of "Don't Do This Barrels".

Like the guy who loaded 60 grains of Unique Powder in his rifle because it was black. Yes he spent some time in the Hospital and could not hear for quite some time.

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