Whole House Solar Electric Setup?

I don't have one but I'm considering it on my next house. Everyone I've talked to that has one said it pays for itself in 5 years or so. Check with your electric company. I've heard some don't buy the electricity you send back to them.

amc rulz said:

Anyone running a home solar setup, curious about your experience.

I was just quoted $75k for 800 sq ft of roof panels, plus the electronics and install. This does not include the expensive batteries. Federal rebate covers $25k, then I would be selling electricity back to the electric company, basically covering the solar system monthly payment. My home is all electric and cost averages close to $4k per year. I’m counting on rates here in Mich. to double or triple in the next 20 years. They’re already raising rates 50% between 2-7 pm.

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I used to work for a solar inverter company and did installations regularly so I have some experience here. The big question with any solar installation is what your ROI (return on investment) is. If you can recover your costs in 10 years or less it may be worthwhile. But beyond that I wouldn't recommend it, mainly because the system components can start failing out of warranty and the overall efficiency starts to drop as everything ages. I see you're from Michigan. Unfortunately Michigan and Ohio are in some of the of the worst places in the US for solar energy. See the below image only PA and NY are worse.

https://www.nrel.gov/gis/assets/images/solar-annual-dni-2018-01.jpg

That's not to say you can't make some money but it just takes longer. The other major factor is how much you're paying per kWH. Areas where energy costs are high will see a faster ROI. NREL (National Renewable Energy Labs) has a really nice calculator called PVWatts you can use to get a pretty good estimate on how much energy a given installation will produce in your area. You just have to input all of the "known" variables. Link below. Once you have that number then you'll have your answer how much it will save for you year to year and you can decide whether it's worth it or not.

https://pvwatts.nrel.gov/index.php

My wife and I had considered it and was doing research, but after talking to someone who works at our local power company and has knowledge about such systems we found out that he was considering it but changed his mind, at least for now, because currently the costs are still too high that it would take too long to recoup the investment. I figured if he is holding off for now, then we would not be in any hurry either

Another thing doing research is that some solar panels are much more efficient than others, but of course you will pay more as in you get what you pay for.

I would think that over time, hopefully within the next 10 years or so, the technology will improve and hopefully costs will come down so as to make it an easier decision.

Beware of systems that seem too inexpensive, could be they might be using cheap, bottom of the line panels that put out less power and might not last as long, again, to get a system worth getting might cost more right now than what some people want to wait to be able to recoup their investment.

Don't be in any hurry or fall for high pressure "buy now" sales tactics, this is a major investment and should only be considered after doing a lot of research of info from unbiased sources, (obviously companies selling the stuff are likely going to put things in the best possible light )

Search online for negative reviews from people who did buy systems and learn from their experience. Even products that seem to have a good rating, if it is a big expense, I like to read what some of the negative reviews say.

amc rulz said:

Anyone running a home solar setup, curious about your experience.

I was just quoted $75k for 800 sq ft of roof panels, plus the electronics and install. This does not include the expensive batteries. Federal rebate covers $25k, then I would be selling electricity back to the electric company, basically covering the solar system monthly payment. My home is all electric and cost averages close to $4k per year. I’m counting on rates here in Mich. to double or triple in the next 20 years. They’re already raising rates 50% between 2-7 pm.

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Be aware that some electric companies have filed with different states Public Utilities Commissions, to be granted a reduction in the amount they will pay solar users for KW hours they buy. This could severely affect your ROI and payback calculations.

When the Castle was being built, the Queen and I decided we wanted solar hot water. Since we are in the South, it was feasible, and the Feds gave a 25-30% refund on the installation cost. Everything was fine for around 7 years, then a contact went out. Looked for the installation company but they had gone defunct. Did find someone to check out the system finally and got the relay replaced. Another year went by, then the circulating pump went poop, and while we were trying to find a plumber who was willing to tackle the job, the roof developed a slow drip, due to the chalking cracking. Then is when we decided to remove it from the Castle and patch the roof. Disconnected the pump and capped the wiring to it. We retained the high quality ceramic lined 80 gallon hot water tank, and moved on. No problems with that tank since then...but KT does a tank drain and flush every 10 years, just to be safe. The Castle is total electric also, and in the winter we heat with wood, especially during the few weeks of coldest weather, just to lower the electric bill!

I feel your pain concerning this kind of decision. Have you considered the new Generac electric storage solar unit that has been advertized on TV recently. It basically stores up electricity from on the roof solar panels for use when the power goes out. KT has been thinking about that system as a possible alternative to wood...a bit cleaner for the environment. But the Queen really likes being able to stand near a hot spot and soak up the heat! Ha ha.

Rudy said:

Be aware that some electric companies have filed with different states Public Utilities Commissions, to be granted a reduction in the amount they will pay solar users for KW hours they buy. This could severely affect your ROI and payback calculations.

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Good point, Rudy! Many utility companies buy from individuals at a whole sale rate, then sell it at their retail rate...a definite discouraging effort that makes the economics pretty much impossible, unless you live in that house for your entire life...and nowadays, who does that?

Rudy said:

Be aware that some electric companies have filed with different states Public Utilities Commissions, to be granted a reduction in the amount they will pay solar users for KW hours they buy. This could severely affect your ROI and payback calculations.

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Good point !

Check with your local power company, I found out ours does not pay the same amount you are charged per KW hour because they have expenses they need to cover for maintaining the power grid, which makes sense.

To elaborate further on my post:

PG&E and California’s other major utilities, Southern California Edison and San Diego Gas & Electric, have petitioned state regulators to slash the bill credit they must pay to solar customers by more than half. Not only that, if their proposal is accepted by the Public Utilities Commission, the utilities would be allowed to charge these solar-using homeowners a monthly flat fee — around $70, in PG&E’s case.

Read more here: https://www.sacbee.com/news/california/article250185380.html#storylink=cpy

And here is the filing of So Cal Edison and Pacific Gas & Electric to the California Public Utilities Commission:
https://docs.cpuc.ca.gov/PublishedDocs/Efile/G000/M371/K711/371711892.PDF

Rudy said:

To elaborate further on my post:

PG&E and California’s other major utilities, Southern California Edison and San Diego Gas & Electric, have petitioned state regulators to slash the bill credit they must pay to solar customers by more than half. Not only that, if their proposal is accepted by the Public Utilities Commission, the utilities would be allowed to charge these solar-using homeowners a monthly flat fee — around $70, in PG&E’s case.

Read more here: https://www.sacbee.com/news/california/article250185380.html#storylink=cpy

And here is the filing of So Cal Edison and Pacific Gas & Electric to the California Public Utilities Commission:
https://docs.cpuc.ca.gov/PublishedDocs/Efile/G000/M371/K711/371711892.PDF

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Wow, customers would get less than half credit for power they sell back AND get charged a big flat fee on top of that ? sounds like the incentive to go solar has been reduced !

Question:

IF someone opted to get a big enough storage battery setup so as to be able to not need the power grid at all, even at night, would they be allowed to completely opt out of being tied into the power grid so as to not be obligated to pay the power company anything at all ?

Now I realize most of us likely might not want to pay the added expense for such a huge battery storage system, but still wondering if individuals are allowed to opt out of the power grid if they so choose.

Very good points everyone, thank you!

Does the sun shine much in Michigan between 15 Dec and 1 Feb?
This would be coldest time frame.
And could be highest energy consumption if one is using electric to heat home.

I guess if this solar stuff was the best thing since sliced bread, why is it not already very popular?

Maybe someday solar power use will be cost effective. Don’t think it is now though.

Rudy said:

To elaborate further on my post:

PG&E and California’s other major utilities, Southern California Edison and San Diego Gas & Electric, have petitioned state regulators to slash the bill credit they must pay to solar customers by more than half. Not only that, if their proposal is accepted by the Public Utilities Commission, the utilities would be allowed to charge these solar-using homeowners a monthly flat fee — around $70, in PG&E’s case.

Read more here: https://www.sacbee.com/news/california/article250185380.html#storylink=cpy

And here is the filing of So Cal Edison and Pacific Gas & Electric to the California Public Utilities Commission:
https://docs.cpuc.ca.gov/PublishedDocs/Efile/G000/M371/K711/371711892.PDF

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Been watching this issue Rudy and I realize I may have waited too long to go solar.

As a retired PG&E'r I have seen on retired employees forums that many workers aren't too happy with this move!

SeabeeRon said:

Been watching this issue Rudy and I realize I may have waited too long to go solar.

As a retired PG&E'r I have seen on retired employees forums that many workers aren't too happy with this move!

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Me too Ron. Now, the payback economics is too dicey.

I just now did a search and found this after hearing something about sodium battery research on a science show.

It might not be available for widespread public use anytime soon as it still seems to be in the development stage, but it does seem like they are trying to greatly reduce the cost of storage batteries:

Sodium-Based Energy Storage

https://arpa-e.energy.gov/technologies/projects/sodium-based-energy-storage

Quote from the above link:

"Sodium ion batteries have the potential to perform as well as today’s best lithium-based designs at a significantly lower cost."
(end quote)

The cost of the solar panels themselves still need to come down a good bit to make it more affordable to the average person, but it will also help if later on Sodium ion storage batteries with their "significantly lower cost" would make it easier to have a large enough solar energy storage system that consumers might not need to buy any power from the grid at all ever, not at night, or even during stretches of cloudy days or the reduced sunlight hours during the winter season. Large businesses might still likely need the power grid, but individual homeowners might be able to be set free from dependence on the grid.

Yeah, and the parts, etc., could be dependent on you know who? China.
Be sorta like how a lot of these drugs were made where? China.

How do home owner policies work with solar?
Or maybe better question, who does one go to for insurance?

Guess a big hail storm or wind storm could wreak havoc on those panels.

tnsharpshooter said:

Yeah, and the parts, etc., could be dependent on you know who? China.
Be sorta like how a lot of these drugs were made where? China.

How do home owner policies work with solar?
Or maybe better question, who does one go to for insurance?

Guess a big hail storm or wind storm could wreak havoc on those panels.

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As mentioned in an earlier post we changed our mind about getting solar now, but IF we had gotten it we would have opted for the ground level installation of the solar panels as our property has space and sun on the side of the house we would have put them.

Edit to correct: I thought I remembered the ground level installation being cheaper than roof installation but rechecking today it seems the initial cost would be more, but at least it would not be in the way if you ever needed roof repair. Also, ground level would seem to be easier to maintain, keep clean, and if you lived in an area where you are more prone to hail storms you might have some kind of protective cover you could secure over the panels when the possibility of hail is forecast.

GKL said:

As mentioned in an earlier post we changed our mind about getting solar now, but IF we had gotten it we would have opted for the ground level installation of the solar panels as our property has space and sun on the side of the house we would have put them.

The ground level installation would be cheaper than roof installation and would not be in the way if you ever needed roof repair. Also, ground level would seem to be easier to maintain, keep clean, and if you lived in an area where you are more prone to hail storms you might have some kind of protective cover you could secure over the panels when the possibility of hail is forecast.

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The sales rep told me that ground mounted panels are initially more expensive. I questioned that a few times, but he was completely uninterested in going further. I also looked up the credit to my electric company, it’s not 1:1 per kw, it’s about two thirds. Also, I’m going to need new shingles within 5-8 years, and would have to pay to have the panels taken off the roof.

amc rulz said:

The sales rep told me that ground mounted panels are initially more expensive. I questioned that a few times, but he was completely uninterested in going further. I also looked up the credit to my electric company, it’s not 1:1 per kw, it’s about two thirds. Also, I’m going to need new shingles within 5-8 years, and would have to pay to have the panels taken off the roof.

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Unless what I thought I remembered reading elsewhere in the past is wrong it would seem obvious that ground installation would be easier and therefore less costly.....but let me double check.....

......okay, it's been a while since I did research so I just did a search just now and while it does seem the initial installation cost might be more, the pros seem to outweigh the cons.

Here is one link I found (I don't know this web site so can't vouch for their links, just sharing it for informational purposes only)

https://www.thesolarnerd.com/blog/what-is-ground-mounted-solar/

One thing with our house is it is positioned so that the roof faces east and west, whereas it is better for solar panels to be facing south, so that alone makes ground installation a better option for us if we had decided to do it.

I have solar panels and a solar hot water heater installed on my house, so I can chime in.
First off I appreciate the theoretical green aspect of it but the bottom line is I am cheap and don't want to pay more than I have to.
When we installed there were two options with the electric company, straight sell all production to the company for a wholesale rate or feed the network our production and draw from the network for all consumption. We choose the second option as some months we produce more than we use and can bank the excess production as a credit.
I have a small system installed, 7 panels 320 watts each producing a max of 2.1 kw, my average production usually comes to between 10kwh and 12 kwh daily. Doesn't sound like much but for example in january, febuary and march it produces more than we use so we build up a credit with the electric company which we use up over the hotter months of april may, june and july. From july on we are producing basically what we use but no excess production.
The prices I am seeing quoted in the US are insane, my small 7 panel system with all panels, bases, installation, paperwork, inverter, bidirecional meter etc came to just under $3500 dollars.
The way they bill electricity here is the more kwh you use the more you pay per khw. Based on what my bills were before and what they are now our system will pay itself off in under 6 years, assuming the electric company does not raise rates, which they seem to be in the habit of doing every 3 years or so anyway so our payoff will most likely be under the 6 years...
As far as solar hot water heater, yes, by all means do that as well. Lots of systems that you can basically build yourself. Mine is basically a series of black painted half inch pipes sealed inside a 4 foot by 4 foot panel maybe 4 inches deep with plastic covering the front and back. The water will naturally create a thermal siphon between your insulated storage tank and the panel so it just circulates naturally and gets hotter and hotter during the day and the insulated tank keeps it warm for up to 3 days where I am.

Not sure how your elec is billed in your state but if have a "time of use" varying rate there are other options. Some states have a rate of say 3 cents per kwh between 1 in the morning and 5 in the morning and then go to 10 cents per kwh for the rest of the day. If that's the case for you you could forgo the solar panel install completely and just install a few tesla powerwall units, charge them from the grid in the wee hours and use the power all day, kind of electrical arbitrage...
If you want to see any pics let me know and I can post them...