CW troop movements question

maxxkatt

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this question is for someone who has studied Civil War troop movements.

In moving toward the enemy would troops move in a ravine that is parallel to the direction of the fight or on either side of the ravine?
 
In all instances I have ever heard of or seen, they would not have taken a weaker/lower position giving the enemy the advantage. They would most likely have stayed on either side of the ravine.


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In all instances I have ever heard of or seen, they would not have taken a weaker/lower position giving the enemy the advantage. They would most likely have stayed on either side of the ravine.


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well that sucks for me. Because on either side of the ravine (which are pocket parks) are homes that I cannot get permissions, too upscale.

guess I will hunt in the ravines just in case. I can see now moving in the ravines is not easy walking on the slanted sides.
 
well that sucks for me. Because on either side of the ravine (which are pocket parks) are homes that I cannot get permissions, too upscale.



guess I will hunt in the ravines just in case. I can see now moving in the ravines is not easy walking on the slanted sides.
You say "too upscale," but have you tried? I've hunted the yards of $1 mil + houses before. Some said no but not all.
Yes, the yards were very well kept. Just made me cut soil like a surgeon!
Make sure your skills are on point, first!

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some soldiers got caught in ravines or sought shelter in them. lead is heavy and stuff rolls downhill. remember battles were organized chaos in most cases with all the carnage and smoke. we find musket balls way off a local known battlefield, whether they were errant shots, drops by fleeing /advancing troops who knows

Hunt IT!
 
this question is for someone who has studied Civil War troop movements.

In moving toward the enemy would troops move in a ravine that is parallel to the direction of the fight or on either side of the ravine?
If you are near Atlanta, estimates of troops involved in the seige of Atlanta vary from 70k to 110k. I would say they were all over all the parts of your ravine. Contrary to the movies, Sherman wanted roads where he could march his men as many abreast as possible to bring many people into fighting formation quickly in case they encountered a sizable group of confederates that escaped the attention of mounted scouts. You must remember what happened to McPherson a Major General near Atlanta. Sherman was always on the search for parallel roads to divide up troops for efficient travel and flanking movements in force if the enemy was encountered.
 
I doubt that they would form or move at the bottom of a ravine intentionally, but as someone above stated "organized chaos".

So many variables to take into consideration. Bottom line is hunt the heck out of it!!!
 
How deep is the ravine? What is the surrounding terrain like? Has the ravine gotten deeper since it was involved in combat? How does it fit into the overall battle and troop movements of both sides? Ravines, depressions and pits could become killing fields or refuges from heavy fire or both, depending on the situation.
 
Lot of good answers here. Thanks. The ravines are now what they call pocket parks in neighborhoods where there was a lot of action on July 20, 1864. These could only be parks because of small branches which made the ravines in the first place. Probably about on the average 20-30 feet deep. Ravines about 1-2 blocks long and maybe 1 block wide. Just an estimate. Not really kept up, mostly wooded. fairly junky with beer cans and bottle caps where teens from the neighborhoods sneak down to drink and or/camp.

I probably need to hunt these harder than the regular city controlled larger parks which have been well hunted in the 70's and 80's which around Atlanta was the golden age of detecting.

I can see no reason why like gold, lead CW bullets would not wash down to the lower parts of a stream. Same physics apply I am guessing.
 
Another factor would be - has fighting already started before said troops moved through/above the ravine area? Perhaps they were looking for the element of surprise and wanted to stay hidden, while the scouts took note of nearby enemies to avoid. Like anything, who truly knows how it went down? The only way to be sure is to go give it a look and see what turns up. Just because its not what one would expect, or "normal" to similar situations, doesnt mean that your particular scenario wasnt different. If other people have looked at that area and said "nah, they would stay on top", then thats less hunting competition its had and more potential good targets remaining for you. Good luck!
 
Lot of good answers here. Thanks. The ravines are now what they call pocket parks in neighborhoods where there was a lot of action on July 20, 1864. These could only be parks because of small branches which made the ravines in the first place. Probably about on the average 20-30 feet deep. Ravines about 1-2 blocks long and maybe 1 block wide. Just an estimate. Not really kept up, mostly wooded. fairly junky with beer cans and bottle caps where teens from the neighborhoods sneak down to drink and or/camp.

I probably need to hunt these harder than the regular city controlled larger parks which have been well hunted in the 70's and 80's which around Atlanta was the golden age of detecting.

I can see no reason why like gold, lead CW bullets would not wash down to the lower parts of a stream. Same physics apply I am guessing.
So. Are you actually referring to the battle of Peachtree Creek?
If so there were 42,000 plus at that battle and maybe some landmarks from the battle that still can be recognized.
Does Collier' s mill still exist as it was a heavily contested area? Even if you cannot detect directly on the mill site, it would be a good landmark to judge how close your ravine pockets are to the main battlefield. As soon as the heat subsides, I would hunt the devil out of those pocket parks with persistence. If anything CW is there, it is not doing anybody any good buried underground rotting away. From your descriptions, I would not hesitate to hunt the bottoms and slopes of those ravines. Many times Battle fatigued and March fatigued soldiers were desperate for any kind of drinking water and that water could have been at the bottom of those ravines.
 
A lot of great comments above from experienced, knowledgeable folks. Here's my $0.02 CAD so take it for what it's worth. :)

There has been a lot of erosion since the time of the Civil War. I would suspect that they'd stay up on top but if they needed to drop out of site, they might go below the upper level. I've seen youtubers dig incredible stuff out of steep slopes.
 
If you are near Atlanta, estimates of troops involved in the seige of Atlanta vary from 70k to 110k. I would say they were all over all the parts of your ravine. Contrary to the movies, Sherman wanted roads where he could march his men as many abreast as possible to bring many people into fighting formation quickly in case they encountered a sizable group of confederates that escaped the attention of mounted scouts. You must remember what happened to McPherson a Major General near Atlanta. Sherman was always on the search for parallel roads to divide up troops for efficient travel and flanking movements in force if the enemy was encountered.

you really know your Atlanta civil war history. Thanks. I have studied the Battle of Peachtree Creek over and over. Unfortunately for me so have hundreds of other detectorists in the late 70's and 80's with pretty good detectors.
 
you really know your Atlanta civil war history. Thanks. I have studied the Battle of Peachtree Creek over and over. Unfortunately for me so have hundreds of other detectorists in the late 70's and 80's with pretty good detectors.

After Gettysburg and Vicksburg, Sherman and Grant had zero fear of the Confederates. They moved troops how they wanted. Where they wanted. When they wanted. Many generals left the army of northern Virginia after Gettysburg and went home because they could see the reality. When they saw their men leave a bloody mess of a trail in the ice and snow from marching barefooted, they knew it was over. Companies that were 150 men down to 8. No shoes. No food. Maybe one gun among the 8. No cartridges and not a single cartridge box among the 8. How could they be expected to fight?
When recruits showed up in Richmond to be outfitted, they were sent to the hospital and received uniforms that had been taken off the ones that died. The big shots wrote about the big picture. You have to read individual unit histories which include letters back and forth between the soldier and home to get the true picture of how bad it was. Those unit histories and letters may also provide some unknown places to detect.
In your area it is always about targets of opportunity. Every time a ditch is cleaned out or ground is disturbed in some way, detect it.
 
I ran into a long time local detectorist who hunted CW relics in the 70's & 80's and said it was not uncommon to find over 100 cw bullets and buttons over a two day hunt in certain areas of Atlanta like along Collier road area/Peachtree creek which was a huge battle. He said now it is hard. I agree, hard but not impossible. Good idea about the disturbed ground, etc. He also gave me a few areas that I should still hunt that are actually close to where I live but did not really know about. Problem with metro Atlanta is constant development on almost every square foot. So we have to find areas that the city and county own where CW action took place. But of course that concentrates the number of CW relic hunters in a small space. But that is what we have and we just do our best.

I sort of wasted 2 years on the Nox 800. Never really understood a lot of things about the settings and kept fooling with the advanced settings. So probably most of the time I was using a de-tuned detector. I should have listed to the experienced detectorists and stayed in the factory program modes like they said.

But I learned my lesson and did much better with the CTX3030 and now with the XP Deus 2. I have a pretty good understanding of all the settings and when to adjust them as necessary. Problem with the 800 I came from 2 years on the AT pro and did pretty good because it was/is a good detector and not a lot of advanced settings to screw with.

I know CW history pretty good from Chattanooga down to and just below Atlanta because that is the area that I am hunting.

I have a private permission of about 3 acres where an union AC carved a road around the north side of a hill just above a creek. I hunted it with the Nox with little results. I need to get back to that with the XP2 and hunt it good. The owner has owned the property in his family since the 1950's and said no one has detected his property since he has owned it. It has been validated as authentic union cut road by a local historian. It has one road for wagons cut in the side of the hill and then about 12 feet above it a smaller road for the troops to use. You are right about Sherman using existing road and parallel roads. Only problem most of those roads are now modern roads.

Research is fun and useful it took me two years to find two historic mill locations that had CW action. My best source believe it or not has just been running into to locals hiking when I am detecting and they tell me where one of their neighbors who was into detecting used to hunt. Each of those several leads has turned out correctly.

john
 
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