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Need Help With 1700s-1800s Coin Detecting

FLOOD

FLOOD

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This is a question I think might be best answered by anyone who uses a Nokta Simplex and has searched for old coins.

I may have an opportunity to explore a 6-acre farm that dates back to pre-revolutionary war. The owner had a local archeological firm on the property last year to locate the original foundation, and they did some limited exploration, but the 6 acres is virtually untouched otherwise. The owner may bring back the company in the future, so he has some hesitation about other exploration. However, I have suggested that I might do some limited, careful searching, focusing mainly on coin signals, as opposed to digging a lot of other signals I might pick up. If I do find coins, I keep them, and if I find relics, their location will be documented with reference pics, and they keep those items. That's the suggested offer to access the property - waiting to hear back.

So, the question, is this: With a Nokta Simplex, can anyone tell me what range of VDI figures I would be expecting for different coins in the 1700s and 1800s? I am familiar with penny, nickel, dime, quarter signals for coins that I've hunted so far, which are relatively recent, like late 1800s to current date, but I am not sure if silver, for example, that is in older coins, like early 1800s or before, will register differently and I know nothing about signals for old copper coins. Any advice? Thank you
 
If this question is strictly about TID/VDI's, and md'ing related issues, then : You will have no shortage of inputs.

But if the question is about "pleasing archies" (with some supposed remediation on-your-part), then : Forget it. There is nothing you can do. And if your homeowner friend breathes a word of your intentions and existence to the archie people, you can bet that they will BRISTLE at the notion. And commence to talk your homeowner friend out of having anyone there .

EVEN IF YOU INTEND to detect far from their intended 4x4 archie test pit spots. Because they can merely say (in true purist archie fashion) that : "How do you know that someone, 200 yrs. from now, might not dig a future pit in that exact spot ?"

So if your intention is to "please the archies" and as such, therefore please the homeowner by extension : Good luck on that. The minute you try to detail you "documenting" intentions , or "dig only coins" intention, or "avoid their intended pit-zone" intentiions , then any such remediation notions, that get back to the archies (if the homeowner feels the need to be a go-between) is the minute you are sunk.

Why can't you just keep it simple, and wait till after the next archie-go-round is done (assuming there's just one more ?) and then hunt it to death after that ? The only thing the archies ever do is little 4x4 square plots with tweezers. They by-no-means are thorough, at any site anywhere.

Hopefully you can just convince the homeowner that you're not going to be hunting at any ground zero spot, where the archies are likely to want to do their next dig. And that they merely say "go ahead", with zero communication to the archies. It's their land after all, and they can do whatever they want on it. Eh ?
 
Having never used a simplex I couldn’t give you exact numbers but all colonial coins for the most part will be high tones, anything over 19-20 on an equinox and over 65-70 on an AT max has been my experience. The only exception to this is some British farthings do beep lower and counterfeit coins obviously will be in the mid tone range. The problem with your plan is you will probably dig relics even just digging high numbers. For example colonial dandy buttons will beep high. Also I’ve had some thicker flat buttons beep high. Also shoe buckles beep high and ox knobs sound like a copper every time. Hope this helps and hopefully you can get in there and find some good stuff.
 
I would stay in touch with the landowner to see if the archies return and find out how good the results of their efforts are. Did they locate the foundation and what did they find that piqued their interest initially? The archies may do exploratory "shovel" test holes, perhaps on a spacing pattern, and screen the dirt to see what emerges. If they encounter something interesting, they may do a 1 meter by 1 meter test pit down to undisturbed sediment, again, screening the dirt to see what else emerges. If interesting things emerge then you will likely not get a chance to do anything at all, as the landowner will likely only admit the archies on a significant arch site. On a significant arch site they may excavate over a much larger gridded area. However, if, as is more likely, they find only minor old farm equipment/implements, it may be deemed not worth pursuing from an archie standpoint. That would possibly present you with an opportunity to metal detect. If the landowner says that they didn't find anything to suggest a significant arch site, he may be willing to admit you. Archies wouldn't typically lead with a metal detector unless there is cause, such as unusual surface finds or something to suggest shallow graves, tombs, caches, etc.. That may be what piqued their initial interest. Be patient and wait until the archies "break their pick". You may then find your opportunity.
 
Why do the owners want the archies there anyway? What do they think is there that would interest them? That's where I would start. If they are dead set on having them out there, I'd just move on to a different spot. The hassle would not be worth fighting.

Cliff
 
For cherry picking, you first have to find out the metal composition of the types of coins you are hunting, then notch or ignore VDI accordingly.

Note that very deep coins can read slightly lower on the VDI, and that also depends on if you're running v1.77 or v1.78.

Also notch out or ignore VDI's around 95-100, because that's just large metal near the surface, or iron wrap around.
 
The homeowner hired a company purely because the homeowner wanted to gather more information and some items that date the property back. He may not bring them back at all, but if he does, it would be to look in a couple of specific areas. They did locate the colonial house foundation and found pottery and some other household items. I am not concerned if I do find any non coin relics, but because I want to try focusing on coins, and avoid other objects that might tone out to me, I am most interested in whether or not older coins from that era would give me similar signals as what I now find. My oldest coins are IHP Pennie’s from later 1800 and other coins. So I know what numbers they produce on a simplex, but didn’t know if a silver quarter or dime, or cents from the earlier period would show differently. I don’t want to dig everything, so to the extent I know the ballpark numbers I might expect, I would focus on those, and just pass by other signals. If I get a second opportunity, I could expand my search criteria.
 
FLOOD said:
... I am not concerned if I do find any non coin relics, but because I want to try focusing on coins, and avoid other objects....
Click to expand...

About the only place I could imagine this objective being accomplished, is if cherry picking parks for *only* coins. Then yes, I can imagine the ability to dig 100 straight coins (albeit clad), with little to no trash. I might get fooled by an occasional car key or whatever. But I can certainly avoid foil, tabs, etc.... just by paying attention to my TID/VDI.

HOWEVER, for a cellar hole relicky situation, I just don't see how you can do it. An old colonial house site will be riddled with stuff that reads into the coin range . Eg.: Old door hardware, gun and lantern parts, etc.... In addition to coins that can read down below the coin range . Eg.: Because they were partially masked with iron, or because they were too deep to get a super accurate ID on, etc....
 
Ok, I should clarify a little more. The farm is 6 acres and I’m not necessarily going to a cellar hole. The house that is lived in now was built on top of a portion of the original structure. There were barns on the farm at one point, but most of it is fields that are free of buildings, so I would be looking around a lot of open space as opposed to exploring the house perimeter. That’s why I thought I could focus more on possible coin signals for now, and skip iron signals, or other tones that aren’t in the general range I am looking for.
 
Sounds like the owner is interested in the history of his property. Good to see instead of just plowing over everything and turning it into condos or ranchettes. If he plans to have the private archeology company back, I would for the time being stay away from the homesite locations. Since this is a private company and not a univerity or musuem, no worries on you being elsewhere since they work for the landowner. Also no worries as others on here always say about archeologists. Private companies work for the landowners. They are usually brought in when the landowner wants to knwo the history or to serch for potential important historical/archeological sites before construction. I would explore the fields just to see what is out there. Fields are not as viable to gain archeological data. They are plowed every year so hard to stratify finds for dating. This is same reason when I was is Europe field detecting is okay. I would find Roman coin on the surface while foot away WWII item was 10" deep.
Ultimately would be great to detect the old foundation areas. But might be best to start with smaller goals to appease the landowner. Also could invite him along. I just got access to old farmstead here. Owner was hesitant but then asked if he wanted to try. I'll bring my spare detector for the landowner to try once they cut the hay. Then I have acres to see what we can find.
Either way main thing is go have fun. You have great opportunity to find some cool old stuff. Good luck.
 
If you want to dig pretty much only coins on the Simplex, then only dig the targets from around 75 to 92.
 
Digalicious said:
If you want to dig pretty much only coins on the Simplex, then only dig the targets from around 75 to 92.
Click to expand...

Thanks I was thinking something along those lines as well, but making an assumption that coins of interest would ring up in that general range. Thanks
 
FLOOD said:
Thanks I was thinking something along those lines as well, but making an assumption that coins of interest would ring up in that general range. Thanks
Click to expand...

If you want the best Chances of finding decent stuff..
Don't bother relying on ID'S ...get used to the smooth tones that coins give on your machine (along with an I'd GLANCE)
id's are over rated IMO, yes a coin in dead clean ground at pretty shallow depth can be pretty steady , but more so than not they will be amongst other metals/rotted iron nails and you wanna listen fir those smooth chirps in that situation..
After most hunts people will ask "what did that ring up" and most of the times I couldn't tell em cuz i didnt bother looking when I hear a smooth tone or chirp I don't care what the id's are..
I know if I was an ID only digger I wouldn't have half the good coins I have ..
 
goldendreams said:
If you want the best Chances of finding decent stuff..
Don't bother relying on ID'S ...get used to the smooth tones that coins give on your machine (along with an I'd GLANCE)
id's are over rated IMO, yes a coin in dead clean ground at pretty shallow depth can be pretty steady , but more so than not they will be amongst other metals/rotted iron nails and you wanna listen fir those smooth chirps in that situation..
After most hunts people will ask "what did that ring up" and most of the times I couldn't tell em cuz i didnt bother looking when I hear a smooth tone or chirp I don't care what the id's are..
I know if I was an ID only digger I wouldn't have half the good coins I have ..
Click to expand...

This isn't correct advice for what FLOOD is trying to accomplish. If FLOOD relies on tones, he's going to dig up massive amounts of junk.

FLOOD wants to cherry pick coins, and using the TID on the Simplex is critically important for cherry picking.
 
Digalicious said:
This isn't correct advice for what FLOOD is trying to accomplish. If FLOOD relies on tones, he's going to dig up massive amounts of junk.

FLOOD wants to cherry pick coins, and using the TID on the Simplex is critically important for cherry picking.
Click to expand...

That's all I try to do is cherry pick.. most of my good coins were a smooth chirp way too deep to even register an ID
In say old parks that are still active parks..anything that blows my ears off I skip.. I intentionally listen for the deep signals that repeat once every 3rd swing and a lot of times from one angle.. I guess people have different definitions of "cherry picking" and I guess cherry picking at one place for certain items is not cherry picking at other spots for other things...
He surely can dig cherry pick the shallow coins in clean ground for sure
 
Last edited:
Up to now, I've never heard of anyone cherry picking by tone alone, because too many junk targets can sound very similar to coins.

The typical cherry picking method, is to listen for the coin high tone, but then confirm it with the TID. If the TID shows a coin range, then dig.
 
Digalicious said:
Up to now, I've never heard of anyone cherry picking by tone alone, because too many junk targets can sound very similar to coins.

The typical cherry picking method, is to listen for the coin high tone, but then confirm it with the TID. If the TID shows a coin range, then dig.
Click to expand...

Way back I used to cherry pick with a Tesoro with no ID at all...
 
Me too.

I cherry picked with a Silver Saber uMax and a Fisher 1266x. I just discriminated out anything lower than copper. If they had a TID, then I wouldn't have dug as much trash.
 
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