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-   -   CZ-21 On Hold...Not Any More! (https://metaldetectingforum.com/showthread.php?t=176225)

Bayoutalker 01-04-2014 12:40 PM

CZ-21 On Hold...Not Any More!
 
Well due to financial considerations it looks like my plan for a CZ-21 will have to wait for a while longer. I do still want a better machine for the beach in the mean time. I really don't need a fully submersible machine as I will probably only go in about a foot or so of water and of course the wet and dry sand. I do want a VLF machine that will work in the salt.

Any suggestions will be appreciated.

Crumble 01-04-2014 01:08 PM

Older Sovereign XS2/Elite can be found for around $400, Sovereign GT can be found for around $600. :D

Sovereign with a big SEF coil is a force to be reckoned with.

Infamous 01-04-2014 01:10 PM

What about a used CZ-20?

therover 01-04-2014 01:23 PM

Does it have to be waterproof ?

I have a really nice CZ7 with 8 inch coil I am going to put up for $335 shipped USPS priority.

This unit works perfectly and is great in the wet, salt sand ( I hunt NJ beaches).

Only reason I am selling is I have 4 CZ's already and this does not get much use.

Bayoutalker 01-04-2014 01:55 PM

Used machines are of course a consideration but I am really leaning toward purchasing a new unit. Warranty means a lot to me. I have been burned in the past with items that failed shortly after I purchased them and they were not worth the money to repair them. The amount of money I paid plus the repair costs totaled more than a new unit would have cost me. Since then, I try to buy new whenever possible.

What current models would you guys recommend? And no, it doesn't have to be waterproof but that would definitely be a plus.

Pasttom 01-04-2014 02:26 PM

I understand the used machine reluctance. Knowing the seller or having the manufacturer or a reliable 3rd party check out a machine helps a lot. New machines are best for sure. Check with several dealers for best prices. Dealer agreements prevent them from advertising prices below list and some do sell below list. My understanding is they can tell you what they are selling for they just cannot put it in print. You have to ask in person or by phone.

With the salt beach and shallow water hunting, you really want a multi-frequency machine or PI. PI have little if any ID and greater depth meaning digging more trash. Trashy beaches may be unhuntable with a PI as the amount of sound is unacceptable.

Minelab's Excal II and the Fisher CZ21 are the most popular units and have a large number of dedicated fans. It would be hard to go wrong with either one and they are pretty close in cost at around $1,000.

mandad76 01-04-2014 07:16 PM

In the classifieds....Beach Hunter id w/9.5 coil....just back from whites....$525....another option to consider....gl and hh!!!

Bayoutalker 01-04-2014 07:26 PM

I have already decided that the CZ-21 is in my future. I just can't afford the $1000 just yet. I have been warned against a PI machine by others who have hunted our area due to the amount of trash here.

I am just looking for a slightly less expensive machine for the mean time. It will remain as a backup when I am able to acquire the CZ-21.

RustedShut 01-04-2014 11:45 PM

I am using a Tesoro Tiger Shark. VLF, waterproof to 200 feet, and has a salt mode. But it is still a little pricey if new. I do NOT do much salt water though. Mostly freshwater lakes.

Bayoutalker 01-06-2014 02:47 PM

Can anyone give me any input on a Fisher F-70 for beach hunting? I realize that it is NOT a water proof machine but how good would it be for 1-2 feet of water? Would it have any problems in the salt or would it be a good choice?

I am looking at it as the price is a fair amount lower than the CZ-21 that I really want but have to wait for a while.

DaviDs 01-06-2014 03:16 PM

F-70 is still a single frequency machine which is inherently problematic with salt water/sand. Now the CZ-70 is another story....basically same MF-VLF technology as the current CZ-21, but it is splashproof instead of submersible. The CZ-70 does have a visual display with target id, etc. Also, the control box is removable, so you could zip-lock it in a baggie and put it in a backpack while you hunt deeper areas.

Crumble 01-06-2014 03:47 PM

Buy a Sovereign... seriously, you won't be disappointed. It is a proven beach monster. CZ21 and Sovereign with 12x15 SEF are pretty much the only machines I use anymore.

CoiltoSoil 01-06-2014 03:47 PM

In that price range it's tough finding a good VLF to handle salt. You might be able to find a good deal on a NOS CZ3d if you want new. Otherwise your best bet is a used CZ7/7a/7a pro/70, or a Minelab Sov or Explorer.

Bayoutalker 01-07-2014 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DnD (Post 1900924)
F-70 is still a single frequency machine which is inherently problematic with salt water/sand. Now the CZ-70 is another story....basically same MF-VLF technology as the current CZ-21, but it is splashproof instead of submersible. The CZ-70 does have a visual display with target id, etc. Also, the control box is removable, so you could zip-lock it in a baggie and put it in a backpack while you hunt deeper areas.

I'm guessing the CZ-70 is an older model?? I don't see it listed on the Fisher site.

Bayoutalker 01-07-2014 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crumble (Post 1900959)
Buy a Sovereign... seriously, you won't be disappointed. It is a proven beach monster. CZ21 and Sovereign with 12x15 SEF are pretty much the only machines I use anymore.

Looks like the Sovereign is pretty close to the same money I can get a CZ-21 for. I guess I will just have to wait until I can pull the trigger for what I really want. It's too cold here (yes I know it is not cold compared to you guys up north) to make beach hunting look attractive anyway. I guess I will just have to try and get ready for the spring.

Bayoutalker 01-07-2014 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoiltoSoil (Post 1900961)
In that price range it's tough finding a good VLF to handle salt. You might be able to find a good deal on a NOS CZ3d if you want new. Otherwise your best bet is a used CZ7/7a/7a pro/70, or a Minelab Sov or Explorer.

I had that conversation with Bart at Big Boys Hobbies yesterday and he said exactly the same thing. I guess I will just hang loose until I can get what I really want.

DaviDs 01-07-2014 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bayoutalker (Post 1901730)
Looks like the Sovereign is pretty close to the same money I can get a CZ-21 for. I guess I will just have to wait until I can pull the trigger for what I really want. It's too cold here (yes I know it is not cold compared to you guys up north) to make beach hunting look attractive anyway. I guess I will just have to try and get ready for the spring.

Yeah, the CZ-70 is an older model. If you only want a new machine, well, +1 on what Crumble said and wait until you have enough for the model you really like.

gameoftag 01-07-2014 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bayoutalker (Post 1898764)
I have already decided that the CZ-21 is in my future. I just can't afford the $1000 just yet. I have been warned against a PI machine by others who have hunted our area due to the amount of trash here.

I am just looking for a slightly less expensive machine for the mean time. It will remain as a backup when I am able to acquire the CZ-21.

If Bart won't go below $1,000 talk to Rich at Colonial. Almost bought one from him and he was going to sell me one for a fair amount under $1,000. In the end, I went with the At Gold and Bart couldn't even touch Rich's price on that.
Good luck

ScubaDetective 01-07-2014 09:54 AM

I found a GREAT used CZ-20 for 250.00. Another one for 300.00. I would keep looking in a few places.

Surf Master 01-07-2014 09:59 AM

I had
 
A cz70pro, but I recommend you getting a GT, the unit is concealed better, but still not waterproof, you want to stay out of the water, with the GT ,as it is always that stray wave that will toast your machine, or you drop it by accident , I picked up a cz20 at a good price the year before last, however I won't submerge it do to a pin point button rubber that could leak into the brain housing, so I chest mount it for shallow water ,wet, sand hunting, from what I here the Cz21s have China gut's, maybe try a Tesoso Tiger shark, since money is a issue, also a used Excalibur Blue model, I have a blue model and love it, have 2 Excalibur 2 1000s, :roll:, I have to say ,it's a good thing I have 2 because they like the shop for repair :roll:, my favorite machine is the White's Surf Pi Df, , there is nothing wrong with a Pi dig all machine, has never been to the shop, happy hunting Earl

DaviDs 01-07-2014 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScubaDetector (Post 1901748)
I found a GREAT used CZ-20 for 250.00. Another one for 300.00. I would keep looking in a few places.

Were you sitting outside of the casino, with a sign that said "Cash for MD's" ??? ha ha ha ha :laughing:
Shoot, wait a minute, that is a good idea, I'm coming back to MI

ScubaDetective 01-07-2014 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DnD (Post 1901755)
Were you sitting outside of the casino, with a sign that said "Cash for MD's" ??? ha ha ha ha :laughing:
Shoot, wait a minute, that is a good idea, I'm coming back to MI

Acutally one was in Conneticut and the other in Florida. I was in the right place both times. One was on Findmall, the guy said he couldn't find a buyer. I actually paid him 50.00 over the 200.00 he wanted for it. I felt totally guilty even though thats all he asked for including shipping.

If you look every day, you will sooner or later find exactly what your looking for.

Bayoutalker 01-07-2014 10:25 AM

Thanks to everyone for their comments and suggestions. I guess I will just wait a bit longer and get what I originally wanted.

As for a PI machine, I have been convinced not to go that route for this area. Several members of this forum that know these beaches have HIGHLY suggested that I don't do that. The beaches here have lots of debris from hurricanes, the oil field, etc that drive PI machines wild.

gameoftag..... Thanks for the info. I will be sure to check them out when the time comes.

dewcon 01-07-2014 09:04 PM

Bay.... buying new doesnt ensure its any better than a used even with a warranty thats can be frustrating as heck sending it back and forth. If you can find a good used one that has recently been in for service or repair.... thats how id go. Most companies really go over the machine when it comes in. Some of the better companies do repairs you dont even know you need. IMO some of these new machines coming from 3rd world countries arent put together with the best of parts..... because once they have been repaired they seem to work and last many many more years. You can get a used one at 1/2 the price.... worst comes to worse you have a repair cost and its brand spanking new again. I like the Sov.... why because you can change the phone and coils.... most waterproofs have them hard wired and it you cant get your hands on replacement coils..... so off to the shop. They are built like tanks and have very very few issues like some of the water machines.

Dew

Bayoutalker 01-08-2014 09:40 AM

Dew,

I agree that buying new doesn't guarantee it won't have problems but it does mean that someone else can pay for the repairs for the length of the warranty period. My wife's vehicle is out of warranty now and I am always wondering when the unexpected big repair is going to be needed. It is easy to plan for a small, regular note, but not for an unexpected big problem.

As for as price, I have been looking for a while now and I have never seen any good ones listed at anywhere near half the price of a new one. Most are 75% or more and those have not been in for service. I know there are certain models that guys have found at a great deal but I guess I am not that lucky. It seems like whatever I need is not available or cheap when I need them. Of course, 2 days after I buy one someone will have one for sale for some ridiculous price. Just the way my luck runs, not only with metal detectors but anything else too.

Thanks for the comments.

Crumble 01-08-2014 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bayoutalker (Post 1902664)
Dew,

I agree that buying new doesn't guarantee it won't have problems but it does mean that someone else can pay for the repairs for the length of the warranty period. My wife's vehicle is out of warranty now and I am always wondering when the unexpected big repair is going to be needed. It is easy to plan for a small, regular note, but not for an unexpected big problem.

As for as price, I have been looking for a while now and I have never seen any good ones listed at anywhere near half the price of a new one. Most are 75% or more and those have not been in for service. I know there are certain models that guys have found at a great deal but I guess I am not that lucky. It seems like whatever I need is not available or cheap when I need them. Of course, 2 days after I buy one someone will have one for sale for some ridiculous price. Just the way my luck runs, not only with metal detectors but anything else too.

Thanks for the comments.

Sovereign Elite at decent price:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Minelab-Sove...item3cdae09ad8

Also one on classifieds that looks a little cleaner for $25 more.

Beach machines are kind of a big investment, but one ring can pay them off.

Bayoutalker 01-08-2014 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crumble (Post 1902667)
Sovereign Elite at decent price:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Minelab-Sove...item3cdae09ad8

Also one on classifieds that looks a little cleaner for $25 more.

Thanks for the heads up but I think I will go with my gut and just buy a new machine. I just don't seem to have much luck with used equipment of any kind. I am that guy that ends up with other people's troubles. If it was a local person where I could look at it in person and try it out I might think a little harder about it.

Bayoutalker 01-08-2014 10:26 AM

Thanks to everyone who helped with my decision.

The deed has been done and my new CZ-21 should be here in a few days. :clapping:

DaviDs 01-08-2014 12:09 PM

Congrats!!!! :dingding:

Bayoutalker 01-09-2014 05:24 PM

Thanks DnD! I am looking forward to getting started with it. The tracking shows it is scheduled to arrive Monday. :clapping: Now if UPS doesn't pull one of their "weather delays".

CoiltoSoil 01-09-2014 06:11 PM

Cz's are awesome detectors. I'm sure you'll love it. Super deep and I love the simple tones. Did us get the 8 or 10.5 coil?

Bayoutalker 01-09-2014 06:42 PM

I got the 8". It's pretty trashy at some of the places I go.

Cliff

Crumble 01-09-2014 07:02 PM

Congrats on the new machine!

Welcome to the water hunting side of the hobby! Once you see a gold ring clanging around in your scoop, you will be hooked for good!

Bayoutalker 01-09-2014 07:38 PM

Thanks. It will be great to have a machine that isn't handicapped in salt water. I love my ATPro, just not in the water.

Cliff

Infamous 01-09-2014 07:58 PM

Congrats! I am waiting for my CZ-20 "5 to come back from repair. It is getting upgraded to a CZ-21 with an 8" coil. Hope it comes in on Saturday so I can swing it on Sunday. =)

deedee7 01-10-2014 11:05 AM

Congrats:thumbsup::tropical::congras:I Love my CZ21,still learning my curves on it but it sure found me plat,gold,silver,diamond rings,still learning my Excal II,but I know I'm gonna love it as well each time I go out,one difference I love about the CZ21,no hum,,it's a quiet machine until your coil gets over a target and the low,medium,high tones,,HH and hope many Treasures for you:yes::dingding:

Surf Master 01-10-2014 11:28 AM

here is some more help
 
I bought a plugger chest mount set up, for my CZ20 last year, it's nice, I am sure you will want to get the machine off the shaft, they are heavy http://rodsbyplugger.com/ , good luck with your new machine, happy hunting, you will like the 8, my Cz20 is a 8 also, Earl Ps they are not listed on the site, you have to call for the Cz21 chest mount.

Bayoutalker 01-10-2014 02:18 PM

Thanks guys. I can't wait to try it out.

Surf Master,

I have the Fisher chest mount ordered with the unit. I guess I will see how it works first.

CoiltoSoil 01-10-2014 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deedee7 (Post 1904740)
Congrats:thumbsup::tropical::congras:I Love my CZ21,still learning my curves on it but it sure found me plat,gold,silver,diamond rings,still learning my Excal II,but I know I'm gonna love it as well each time I go out,one difference I love about the CZ21,no hum,,it's a quiet machine until your coil gets over a target and the low,medium,high tones,,HH and hope many Treasures for you:yes::dingding:

I agree! Best part about CZ's are they are dead silent till you hit a target, then BAM! I hate hunting with a lot of noise.

sandnut 01-10-2014 03:38 PM

:congras:Enjoy your time with your new detector. HH2u buddy...:detector:


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