Next level upgrade from Nokta Legend?

[KOB]

Glad you are following me KOB.
Let’s see.
They hand out degrees to specialists doctors with how much schooling time wise? K-12 plus Around 12-14 years.
I have been retired a while now- 21 years. I get to spend more time doing things than some other folks who are still working. I share info. In more ways than one. And evidently some folks are indeed picking up on tidbits I share. Based on their comments.

You really should be speaking for yourself KOB. Not anyone else.

. True , when it comes to beaches. Admittedly I wouldn't claim to be an expert on any detectors. But I do know what works overall. I have noticed you have changed your demeanor and words you use to cover all the bases and leave yourself an out. Which in of itself , leaves much doubt. And I will say some of your nuggets are useful in helping guys out. Some , not all.

 

[KOB]

 

[jmaclen]

I still have some regrets about how this topic spiraled out of control a bit and my part in that. I am a realist. I don't think a lot about technical things. I just use these detectors a lot and really respect them. I do get the luxury of decent weather even for lots of the winter and I hunt almost everyday by myself or with a group if the temps are above freezing and the ground isn't rock hard frozen or rock hard parched dry in the hottest part of the summer.

There are so many variables involved in metal detecting that giving the OP a simple answer to their question is not straight up easy.

So, here are three hunt scenarios that were suggested during this thread. Two of them supposedly would prove that the 5 main detectors mentioned in this topic (Equinox 800, Equinox 900, Legend, Deus 2 and Manticore) would all find roughly the same amount of trash and treasure at the same site. The last scenario would be fun too but I would want to include all five of the detectors listed. Here are the scenarios again:

"Take two experienced and knowledgeable hunters, that know how to get the best out of a detector. One hunter uses a full featured lower cost Multi-IQ detector, and the other hunter uses a full featured high cost Multi-IQ detector. Each hunter sets up the detectors in a similar manner. Put those hunters on the same site, and after the hunt, they will walk out with the same amount of trash and treasure."

"Let's take 3 experienced and knowledgeable hunters, that know how to get the best out of their detectors. One uses a Legend, one uses a Manticore, and the other uses a D2. Each hunter sets up the detectors in a similar manner. Put those hunters on the same site, and after the hunt, they will walk out with about the same amount of trash and treasure. Sure, one of them might walk out with a silver coin, while the other two didn't find any silver, but the overwhelming mathematical odds say that the one hunter didn't find the silver coin because his detector hit a little deeper than the others. Rather, the overwhelming mathematical odds, say the hunter who got the silver coin, got it because he got lucky and swung over that coin before the other two hunters did."


"I take it back, why don't you guys or girls go metal detecting with the same (five listed) machines, at the same location, start at the goal line and sees who digs the most keepers. It's a hobby not a swinging d!ck contest."

All of those scenarios would be fun hopefully and everyone would make some good finds.

However, this gets back to the OP's original question which basically paraphrased was: "Is the Nokta Legend a good enough detector for me or do I need something with better performance?"

Anyone that has used a Legend extensively knows that for most situations, yes the Nokta Legend is definitely good enough. However, here are a few of those variables that change things sometimes.

Suppose that those three scenarios above are at a fairly new park site with some moderate iron mineralization and a mixture of modern coins, some jewelry and some aluminum and steel trash from surface to 8" deep with nothing much deeper and with some colocated targets. I would agree completely that at a site like that, all five detectors using the same size coils would be roughly equal and potentially so would the amount of finds.

Change the location to a moderately iron mineralized older park with the same targets as the modern park in the surface to 8" depth but with the older coins including silver ones and older jewelry and possible relics at 8 to 12". Using the same 5 detectors and the same very experienced users I would guarantee you from my own first hand experiences during multiple group hunts where all five of these detectors were being used that the Manticore and Deus 2 would get most of the deeper/more quality finds with the Nox 900 3rd and Legend and Nox 800 bringing up the rear. The expertise of the detector user is super important but Deus 2 and the Manticore really do have an advantage in this situation in the hands of experienced deep target specialists.

Change the location to an older iron infested site with some mixed non ferrous coins, jewelry and non-ferrous relics mixed in that are in the surface to 6" depth range with very little modern trash. Basically this is the typical SW USA, Great Plains and Rocky Mountain USA ghost town scenario which sometimes is complicated by higher iron mineralization. Deus 2 is very likely to win that hunt even though the Manticore and Legend are really good for that type of hunting too. The Nox 900 and 800 from my experiences potentially have more iron falsing issues at these types of sites.

Make the good targets deeper in the same iron infested site and Deus 2 and Manticore are going to win.

Change the target to really small gold nuggets that are smaller than 0.25 grams down to 0.05 grams and the ground is highly iron mineralized. Deus 2 will come in dead last with the other four detectors splitting the finds roughly equally but with the Manticore potentially finding the most.

A salt beach with light to moderate black sand levels is the same situation as the park and relic hunt. If the targets are coin sized and no more than 8" deep, it's a fair fight. If the best targets are deeper in the 8 to 12"+ range, Deus 2 and Manticore stand the best chances of winning.

Submerged snorkeling and shallow diving.....don't do that with the Nox 600/800 unless you have no choice. Use a Legend, 900 or Manticore since they all have vibrating handles so you don't even need head phones and you don't have to do anything too tedious to them to prep them like you have to do with Deus 2 and they don't have a history of leaking like the 600/800s. Use Deus 2 for the deeper diving, hopefully with a modified shaft, well tethered remote and antenna and some working bone phones.

We get to chose from over 250 public parks in the Denver area. Some are newer and some are from the late 1800s where those older targets are at least 8" deep and usually deeper. Our club hunts all of these parks and we often have up to 20 people at a time at impromptu wild hunts several times a month. What I described above has been proven too many times to count in the last year or two. Folks with a Deus 2 using an 11" or 13X11" coil or a stock Manticore that know what they are doing are making some amazing deep finds. Legend and Nox users are doing very well too on the 8" or so and shallower targets. Before Deus 2, the Manticore and Legend, the Equinox 600 and 800 were absolutely walking away with the best finds and the most finds at these hunts with Deus 1 close behind.

SDA67 asked a great question. I hope SDA67 will keep asking questions. I also hope you get your son a good metal detector like another Legend, Double Score or Score or you find that great deal on a used Deus 2 or Manticore and keep the Legend for him.

Out of all five detectors mentioned, for me very subjectively, I like the Legend audio tone quality and those Nokta BT headphones the best. The tones are really beautiful and sweet, especially the highest ones, those tones offer plenty of nuanced information and the BT headphones are the best for noise cancelling ambient sound. It's not even close.

I like all of these detectors a lot except the 900 which means nothing. I just got off on the wrong foot with the 900 after many years with the 800.

 

[Diga]

"Hijacking a thread", refers to posts that are unrelated to the original post. Thing is, no hijacking has occurred in this thread.

SDA67 specifically asked about "the next level of progression from the Nokta Legend and what would be the next level detector to look at?" So, it's no surprise that it is exactly that progression (detector technology) that has been civilly discussed.

Simply because the OP may not fully understand all of the discussion, doesn't even remotely mean the thread was hijacked. Simply because a member does not agree with what another member said about the next level of progression, also doesn't even remotely mean the thread was hijacked. An example of a hijacked thread, would be the metal detecting threads on this forum, that turn into discussions about topics that have nothing to do with metal detecting. Yet, of the two members that insist on this "hijacked" nonsense for this particular thread, I don't ever recall them saying anything about the metal detecting threads that morph into something that is completely unrelated to metal detecting and/or the OP's concerns. In fact, one of the members who repeatedly complains of this hijacked thing in this thread, also repeatedly keeps participating in the alleged hijacking! The irony and hypocrisy of that is deafening.

Jeff,

Your last post (#143) was very thorough and well thought out. Although for a few reasons, I do find your club hunt example to be a very weak example for the point you're trying to get across. I don't know if you, or others want to discuss those reasons, so for now, I'll leave it at that. Also, it's not necessarily that I disagree with your main point. Rather, I disagree in the importance of your main point. More specifically, I submit that the slight advantage of a D2 / Manticore over a Legend / Nox in a particular scenario, will have very little impact on the bottom line of: "What's in the pouch at the end of the day"? The important aspects of that, comes down to location and the expertise of the hunter. Provided that those two characteristics are met, and provided a hunter has a decent detector (like most of the detectors we're discussing), then the detector in of itself, is of little importance to the bottom line.

 

[Cherry Picker]

Ok, but what I'm saying, is that in most hunting scenarios, depth isn't nearly as important as it used to be. If it was 30 years ago, then sure, I'd agree that depth was king. Now-a-days, depth has become over rated. Far more important now, is unmasking and discrimination ability.

I have yet to understand the whole "unmasking" phenomenon. I have taken some of the best rated detectors for "unmasking" to all my favorite hotspots and they got me zilch. I can see not a large number of missed goodies, because of the years these sites have been hunted, but ZILCH? Not one? I agree that depth isn't the key factor for new detectors as in the past, but that is because today even the entry-level detectors get close to the same depth as the flagships in my experience.

What I see in my crystal ball is detector technology is targeting better TID. Especially in the iron range. I think it was Minelab and the CTX that first openly said they were compressing the upper VDI so they could expand the lower to better ID low conductors. Hello the introduction of "Iron Bias", "Iron bins", and "Ferrouscheck".

 

[Jose159]

Lots of good info here and one thing that hasn't been mentioned much is that if someone (like me) needs or prefers small coils ....the D2 or Manticore aren't going to work. I use a 6x9 on my Legend and a 6 inch round on my Nox 900. I guess it all depends on what type of detecting and where you detect. Depth is a major priority for some people and separation and precision a major priority for others.

 

[Cherry Picker]

Lots of good info here and one thing that hasn't been mentioned much is that if someone (like me) needs or prefers small coils ....the D2 or Manticore aren't going to work. I use a 6x9 on my Legend and a 6 inch round on my Nox 900. I guess it all depends on what type of detecting and where you detect. Depth is a major priority for some people and separation and precision a major concern for others.

I agree Jose. I have the 9" HF round coil on my Deus, which is killer by the way, but I haven't taken the 6" off my NOX 800 since I got it.

 

[Diga]

CP,

When I said that unmasking and discrimination are far more important than depth in most hunting scenarios, that just means, "Needing a much better way of knowing what's under the coil". Which is also what I believe you meant when you said, "What I see in my crystal ball is detector technology is targeting better TID".

 

[tnsharpshooter]

I have seen some thing some manufacturers should consider adding to their models. I have relayed this to owner of Xp.
What exactly?
Deus 2 would be a much better unit if it offered 2 IDs. Of a detecting scenario.
A notch ID and a no notch ID.
Would be very beneficial used on the fly.
This would help expose colocated higher and lower conductors. Giving user more data to spot suspect scenarios where masking is taking place.
Doing test with higher and lower conductors it’s easy to see the benefits that could be had. Which I have done via video.
This allows some higher freq to be used yet be able to spot these masking situations somewhat better.
Would also allow lower notch to be used and some of the more intense masking could be spotted. Remember a silver dime for example could yield a zincoln penny ID. Folks notching those out with current setup wouldn’t necessarily hear such target scenario would they? Hmmm. But if I got zincoln penny ID with notch ON. Yet notch OFF ID showed a much lower ID would = red flag= suspect target. Meaning an even higher conductive target higher than zincoln penny could indeed exist. Just one example.
This same system could even help a person out find gold rings too - their ID could be comprised too.
A person running notch might hear a blip. Hmm. But if they looked down and NO notch ID was substantially lower would = put the brakes on!
This allows imo bigger coils 9-11” to be used better. Would give even users of smaller coils some additional help.
Naturally the detecting scenario drives how much benefit.
I may do another video today on this to show (Again). Using Deus 2.

Btw. Detector speed setting used is key (part of the equation) for this to be successful. Slower vs faster generally.

Maybe I should get a patent on this idea. Hmmm
No, think I’ll pass.

We have not seen a MF detector that does infact give 2 IDs simultaneously of a detecting scenario have we? Hmm

You got to keep an eye on the ole “sharp”shooter. Hmmmm

Just did video. It’s up for those who want to watch.

 

[UT_Dave]

Lots of good info here and one thing that hasn't been mentioned much is that if someone (like me) needs or prefers small coils ....the D2 or Manticore aren't going to work. I use a 6x9 on my Legend and a 6 inch round on my Nox 900. I guess it all depends on what type of detecting and where you detect. Depth is a major priority for some people and separation and precision a major priority for others.

The 5.5x8 M8 coil for the Manticore has finally become available. I've been having a lot of fun and success with it the past month or so.

- Dave

 

[Jose159]

The 5.5x8 M8 coil for the Manticore has finally become available. I've been having a lot of fun and success with it the past month or so.

- Dave

That's good to hear!

 

[Cherry Picker]

I have seen some thing some manufacturers should consider adding to their models. I have relayed this to owner of Xp.
What exactly?
Deus 2 would be a much better unit if it offered 2 IDs. Of a detecting scenario.
A notch ID and a no notch ID.
Would be very beneficial used on the fly.
This would help expose colocated higher and lower conductors. Giving user more data to spot suspect scenarios where masking is taking place.
Doing test with higher and lower conductors it’s easy to see the benefits that could be had. Which I have done via video.
This allows some higher freq to be used yet be able to spot these masking situations somewhat better.
Would also allow lower notch to be used and some of the more intense masking could be spotted. Remember a silver dime for example could yield a zincoln penny ID. Folks notching those out with current setup wouldn’t necessarily hear such target scenario would they? Hmmm. But if I got zincoln penny ID with notch ON. Yet notch OFF ID showed a much lower ID would = red flag= suspect target. Meaning an even higher conductive target higher than zincoln penny could indeed exist. Just one example.
This same system could even help a person out find gold rings too - their ID could be comprised too.
A person running notch might hear a blip. Hmm. But if they looked down and NO notch ID was substantially lower would = put the brakes on!
This allows imo bigger coils 9-11” to be used better. Would give even users of smaller coils some additional help.
Naturally the detecting scenario drives how much benefit.
I may do another video today on this to show (Again). Using Deus 2.

Btw. Detector speed setting used is key (part of the equation) for this to be successful. Slower vs faster generally.

Maybe I should get a patent on this idea. Hmmm
No, think I’ll pass.

We have not seen a MF detector that does infact give 2 IDs simultaneously of a detecting scenario have we? Hmm

You got to keep an eye on the ole “sharp”shooter. Hmmmm

Just thinking out loud here, but it seems to me even a SF (single Frequency) detector can give 2 IDs. I think they just break the returning Eddy into parts. If you set the "Tone Break" at say 7, then you have 2 IDs. I believe an Eddy current carries freeous and nonferrous information if you want a FE/CO breakout. Ironbias simply breaks the FE portion of the current so that a finer tune can be done allowing conductive very close to ferrous separation.

 

[tnsharpshooter]

Just thinking out loud here, but it seems to me even a SF (single Frequency) detector can give 2 IDs. I think they just break the returning Eddy into parts. If you set the "Tone Break" at say 7, then you have 2 IDs. I believe an Eddy current carries freeous and nonferrous information if you want a FE/CO breakout. Ironbias simply breaks the FE portion of the current so that a finer tune can be done allowing conductive very close to ferrous separation.

The video I just did and posted. Shows how this could be beneficial. Letting the detector do the work yet be able to stay in same program. Once you set your hunt program up. It’s set. Sweep and monitor both IDs. Remember if you are using notch of some degree. Not all targets will yield audio. The targets you will be wanting to look at both IDs will be the targets yielding audio.

 

[Big Boys Hobbies]

Try that Manticore with M8 coil on the small stuff.

The Minelab Manticore with a Minelab M8 coil on it is about as good as it gets! I LOVE that setup. In my opinion, that's the best all-around metal detector out right now. Absolutely amazing on small jewelry and gold, especially on the beach.

Now if your into very heavy trash and relics I would lean to the XP Deus II. There it might have a slight advantage not to mention weighs a pound less which is very appealing to older folks like myself! Father time wins every time!

Anyone with questions about those two models feel free to call us directly. Be glad to go over my own experiences with both. They are both by far. The best machines on the market! Be sure to mention you from the friendly forum for special deals!

 

[StanTheManStan]

Might wait a bit to see what's cooking over at Garrett.
Whether it’s better or worse, it’s a new toy with buttons to push.
It may have the magic button.

 

[CountyWorker]

"Hijacking a thread", refers to posts that are unrelated to the original post. Thing is, no hijacking has occurred in this thread.
SDA67 specifically asked about "the next level of progression from the Nokta Legend and what would be the next level detector to look at?" So, it's no surprise that it is exactly that progression (detector technology) that has been civilly discussed.

Simply because the OP may not fully understand all of the discussion, doesn't even remotely mean the thread was hijacked. Simply because a member does not agree with what another member said about the next level of progression, also doesn't even remotely mean the thread was hijacked. An example of a hijacked thread, would be the metal detecting threads on this forum, that turn into discussions about topics that have nothing to do with metal detecting. Yet, of the two members that insist on this "hijacked" nonsense for this particular thread, I don't ever recall them saying anything about the metal detecting threads that morph into something that is completely unrelated to metal detecting and/or the OP's concerns. In fact, one of the members who repeatedly complains of this hijacked thing in this thread, also repeatedly keeps participating in the alleged hijacking! The irony and hypocrisy of that is deafening.

Jeff,

Your last post (#143) was very thorough and well thought out. Although for a few reasons, I do find your club hunt example to be a very weak example for the point you're trying to get across. I don't know if you, or others want to discuss those reasons, so for now, I'll leave it at that. Also, it's not necessarily that I disagree with your main point. Rather, I disagree in the importance of your main point. More specifically, I submit that the slight advantage of a D2 / Manticore over a Legend / Nox in a particular scenario, will have very little impact on the bottom line of: "What's in the pouch at the end of the day"? The important aspects of that, comes down to location and the expertise of the hunter. Provided that those two characteristics are met, and provided a hunter has a decent detector (like most of the detectors we're discussing), then the detector in of itself, is of little importance to the bottom line.

Nice try, I don’t know how we got by for so many years without you correcting the record in every thread.

Your necessity to always be right and argue in perpetuity until you get the last word, which requires the other members to simply tire of said necessity, is childlike and only serves to make this forum less “Friendly”.

In regards to your posts in this thread about patent dates, infringements and lawsuits, including your condescending posts to any member who had the audacity to disagree with any of your corrections of the record…

I know how important it is for you to have the last word(you must be a joy at family gatherings ) so have at, because…

 

[RobNC]

All joking aside, the question was ultimately asked, “what do I want to hunt for?”. I guess this would help to decide which detector I would like to upgrade to.
Truth is, I’m not hung up on any one thing. I was simply thinking a better detector would give me a more well rounded option for a wider variety of hunting options. Be it coin/jewelry shooting, relic hunting, etc.
I guess this is why I posted the topic that I did, understanding that all of the detectors out there has trade offs. Depth would be good as well as a machine that make discrimination set up a little more forgiving as well.
Hope that makes a little more sense as to why I was looking for input as to what a better detector might be able to help me, considering my broad range of detecting goals.
Thank you all for your insight!

Well, I'm enjoying the Legend personally. I think it is a pretty dang good machine. It can do a lot for the amount of money they are asking. I've used a lot of detectors over the years. So far, the Legend has totally enthralled me. Is it perfect? No. But no detector truly is.
There are so many variables to factor in. I believe it will boil down more to what areas you are mostly going to metal detect in. If you know you hit tot lots, parks, schools, and similar places you are going to be looking at target separation, discrimination abilities, and availability of different coil sizes.
If you are a relic hunter that is going to require something a little different. Larger coil, depth ability.
Beach Hunter again different. I unfortunately can't speak on this as I have not been to the beach in over 12 yrs

My main sites are littered with modern trash like foil, aluminum bits, pencil tops, small wires, etc. So for me personally I need a smaller coil and decent discrimination capabilities but fine tuning options. The Legend and the Equinox both give me that. If I want to hunt the beach I could with either one as they are capable. Would I be good at it? Dunno, but the machines are willing and able.
I can tell you that out of all the detectors I've owned over the year this Legend so far is satisfying my needs and even surprising me. It's a really good machine but there is still so much to learn about it for me personally. Just 15 hrs in with it.
But really WE are the ones that need an upgrade more than the machines we use. It's us who can't fully utilize what is already out there. There just isn't enough time or different places. Give yourself time with the Legend, and when you feel there is no more it can do for you move onto something else. It doesn't matter what it is, but it will be NEW to you for a while. Your brain will kick back into learning mode and you will do things that you had stopped doing with the the previous detector subconsciously. At least that is what I think is happening with me and the Legend vs me and my Equinox. You use a detector a while and you think you know it, and that CAN lead to lost finds because you are so set in your ways with another unit.