Looks like a possible either Selectable Freq and or Multi - Freq Pinpointer coming to a theater near you eventually

[tnsharpshooter]

See this link.
It starts off with me talking.
Keep going down and note Mr Danksowki’s couple comments as of late.

Would a pinpointer with approx 12 kHz and approx 30-40 kHz or so be possible and help detectorist - Thomas Dankowski's Metal Detecting Forum

I even give a suggestion for name of device.
You can’t beat that with a stick, huh!

 

[Cherry Picker]

Do people really have so much trouble with EMI on their pointer that they need to change frequencies? How about Bluetooth to connect directly to your headphones?

Seriously, a pinpointer is just a tool to make recovery quicker and easier. To me, it is like a motor on a shovel, or an ashtray on my headphones. Give me a 1-button durable pinpointer and I'm happy.

 

[MuddyMo]

Yes but id like to have a second button for on/off only. I hate the multifunction buttons, I always seem to change settings by accident.

 

[Diga]

A couple of years back when I got my first PI pinpointers, I was dismayed at how poorly they detected small targets. That's no exaggeration either. I'm talking things like small foil could only be detected if it was touching the pinpointer, and even then, sometimes the pinpointer wouldn't detect it all. That made it really tough to find the target. I suspect it's because the PIs use a low frequency, of I believe around 5Khz. Although even the VLF pinpointers of around 12 Khz don't do very well on small targets. That's when I wrote a post suggesting a single frequency pinpointer that automatically toggled between the two frequencies of 5 Khz and 40 Khz about every 10th of a second. No need to switch between those two frequencies and the pinpointer would automatically get the best of both worlds of depth (low frequency) and sensitivity to small targets (high frequency).

An SMF pinpointer would be a nightmare of EMI if it was used with a SMF detector. That's becuase both the devices are broadband. For EMI noise reduction to be effective, one or the other has to be narrowband.

I don't much like one button pinpointers. Two button pinpointers are much easier to use. The crazy thing is, a lot of ads for single button pinpoinetrs say, "Single button for ease of use!" You know you have a good marketing team when they advertise a disadvantage as an advantage!

 

[Diga]

I even give a suggestion for name of device.

"Sharpshooter" would be a great name, but it's a no go because Bounty Hunter already uses that name for one of their metal detectors.

 

[tnsharpshooter]

"Sharpshooter" would be a great name, but it's a no go because Bounty Hunter already uses that name for one of their metal detectors.

Multi- Sharpshooter .
That name likely not used.

 

[Diga]

Multi- Sharpshooter .
That name likely not used.

Adding the term "multi" isn't enough of a distinction. Bounty Hunter would likely sue for trademark infringement. If they did, they would win.

Anyway, are you talking about a SMF pinpointer, or a SSF (Selectable Single Frequency) pinpointer? If the former, what about the massive EMI with two SMF detectors beside each other? Too bad most SMF detectors don't go into sleep mode when set down, then instantly wake when they're lifted.

 

[Diga]

In the thread on the Dankowski forum, Dankowski says: "In works", then in his last post says, "I'm on my 9th year trying to get this project launched-and-completed...but there's been too many redirected distracters".


9 years doesn't sound very hopeful. Perhaps "redirected distractors" is something we can all be hopeful for. Something like a detector that can differentiate between aluminum and gold.

 

[tnsharpshooter]

Adding the term "multi" isn't enough of a distinction. Bounty Hunter would likely sue for trademark infringement. If they did, they would win.

Anyway, are you talking about a SMF pinpointer, or a SSF (Selectable Single Frequency) pinpointer? If the former, what about the massive EMI with two SMF detectors beside each other? Too bad most SMF detectors don't go into sleep mode when set down, then instantly wake when they're lifted.

A Pinpointer could have noise cancel function.
It could be made to be automatic at turn on too. And if this process can be done quicker vs slower would work imo.
We already have pinpointers out there that can be not detector friendly using depending.
Also remember it’s just not the detector (the user is using freq wise) but could also be another detectorist in the area that could drive pointers ops.

Pinpointer advancement seems has been limited to wireless function and yes even some ferrous discrimination.
No noise cancel to my knowledge, no higher and lower freq, no multi freq.
So the same like has been extended to some detector models, this hasn’t happened to pinpointers. It’s about time.
Granted using regular batteries in pointer limited power.
So use of Lipro battteries may indeed make some of the above more possible with decent to longer run time.
Multi freq does consume more power I believe.

We need a progressive thinking state of the art pinpointer. A pinpointer that makes all other vlf pointers obsolete.
Will if one materializes will other manufacturers hop on the wagon. I suppose so.
A state of the art pinpointer could be made to be updatable by the user too. Hmmmm
And could a pinpointer be made that gives ID numerically? Hmm


Cheers.
You got to watch the ole sharpshooter. His gears upstairs turn frequently.

 

[Diga]

A Pinpointer could have noise cancel function.
It could be made to be automatic at turn on too. And if this process can be done quicker vs slower would work imo.

I don't know what you mean by "A pinpointer could have noise cancel", because some do. Noise cancel isn't filtering out the EMI. Noise cancel on detectors and pinpointers is merely a very slight frequency shift to try and get out of the range of the EMI. Noise cancel works when using a SF pinpointer and a SMF detector, because the pinpointer is narrowband. If the pinpointer and detector are both SMF, noise cancel won't work.

Quest makes a pinpointer that turns on when taken out of its holster, then turns off when placed back into its holster. Copying that would mean a lawsuit.

 

[Cherry Picker]

I just think if you have found a target with your detector that, by your decision, should be recovered, why would you need anything else but the ability to pinpoint the item with a pinpointer? Fifty years of detecting, and I have never run into a situation where anything more than a on/off pinpointer didn't work, or think of anything else I would ever need it to do.

Now, I haven't ever hunted the beaches, so maybe there is some big deal there?

 

[tnsharpshooter]

I don't know what you mean by "A pinpointer could have noise cancel", because some do. Noise cancel isn't filtering out the EMI. Noise cancel on detectors and pinpointers is merely a very slight frequency shift to try and get out of the range of the EMI. Noise cancel works when using a SF pinpointer and a SMF detector, because the pinpointer is narrowband. If the pinpointer and detector are both SMF, noise cancel won't work.

Quest makes a pinpointer that turns on when taken out of its holster, then turns off when placed back into its holster. Copying that would mean a lawsuit.

Did you ever read anywhere where I used the word filter? Nope.
So your sentence above. Talking about smf and pinpointers (narrow band).
Could this be BS? Hmm.
So basically what you are saying is 2 Manticores running in close proximity or even a Deus 2 and Manticore all using multi freq noise cancel process has no benefits? Hmm
Sounds like BS to me.

I am not talking about copying anything with with a new pinpointer model. Just allowing a pinpointer to have more performance overall - depending.

 

[tnsharpshooter]

I just think if you have found a target with your detector that, by your decision, should be recovered, why would you need anything else but the ability to pinpoint the item with a pinpointer? Fifty years of detecting, and I have never run into a situation where anything more than a on/off pinpointer didn't work, or think of anything else I would ever need it to do.

Now, I haven't ever hunted the beaches, so maybe there is some big deal there?

Yeah. Pinpointers generally run at what freq? Around 12 kHz…hmm
Is this necessarily the best freq to be using with pinpointer when using say HF coil on Deus 1, of hf2 coil on Deus 2 or even M8 coil using Manticore looking for any and all nonferrous trying to recover? I think not.
The detectors above running higher freq have ability to locate smaller and or lower conductive targets. Pinpointers using approx 12 kHz likely fall short of a pinpoint employing higher freq. say 40 kHz.
Granted some targets a higher freq pinpointer won’t help with. But there will be other targets higher freq could help with recovering or recovering faster.

 

[Diga]

So basically what you are saying is 2 Manticores running in close proximity or even a Deus 2 and Manticore all using multi freq noise cancel process has no benefits?

It depends on if the EMI noise mitigation is a slight frequency shift, DSP, or a combination of both. If it's a slight frequency shift, the noise reduction won't work in that situation. If the noise reduction includes DSP for noise mitigation, and the interference is reduced in that particular situation, then that means signal filters. Signal filters for EMI reduction will have a negative effect in one way or another.

 

[tnsharpshooter]

It depends on if the EMI noise mitigation is a slight frequency shift, DSP, or a combination of both. If it's a slight frequency shift, the noise reduction won't work in that situation. If the noise reduction includes DSP for noise mitigation, and the interference is reduced in that particular situation, then that means signal filters. Signal filters for EMI reduction will have a negative effect in one way or another.

You are using the word depending. You didn’t use that word when you first talked about this. Everything done the word depending can be applied. And the words possible or feasible also come into play.

 

[Diga]

You are using the word depending. You didn’t use that word when you first talked about this.

That's because I was talking about EMI mitigation between pinpointers and SMF detectors. Pinpointers use frequency shifting for EMI mitigation. They don't use DSP filters.

 

[MuddyMo]

With all those improvements it’d probably cost more than most detectors.

 

[tnsharpshooter]

With all those improvements it’d probably cost more than most detectors.

It may cost more than a more typical pinpointer. How much more? We’ll see won’t we.
At least folks will have another choice.
We could have said the same as you did about detectors, right?
And multi freq would have never been brought about and sold. That didn’t happen did it.
So MF detectors are abundant - different models.

So the industry continues to forge ahead.
And the new generation detectorist will have additional option(s).

We could say the same thing about a lot of other things.
They certainly don’t give those iPhones away huh.
Lot of those things running around now, right.

 

[MuddyMo]

We’ll see, right, did it, huh, right.
It was just an observation not meant to be a debate.

 

[Diga]

We’ll see, right, did it, huh, right.
It was just an observation not meant to be a debate.

It wasn't just an observation Mo. TNS directly asked the question, "Would a pinpointer with approx 12 kHz and approx 30-40 kHz or so be possible and help detectorist?" TNS also said, "It's about the stability of work in mineralized terrain", which implies SMF.

I wasn't debating. I was pointing out the problem that would arise with a SMF pinpointer.

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