Found a Florida Crematory tag in Rhode Island!

[FreeBirdTim]

Metal detecting a freshwater beach yesterday and found something really creepy! It's an Everglades Crematory tag from West Park, Florida! Very strange find, since I live in Rhode Island! The water level at this beach is very low right now, due to problems with a nearby dam. I found it under a dock that is usually submerged year round. Any idea on this one? Why is it numbered? Maybe to claim the ashes of someone still at the crematory? I hope they don't need the tag to claim a loved one...

 

[Ken Clad]

All funeral homes and crematories have an identification system in place. Upon arrival… first thing... an ID band is attached. An existing ID band from the hospital may be used as the ID, or a reference or cross reference. Places vary.

Every move inside the facility or during transfer, and transfer turn over to another agency… every procedure… with a decedent; check the ID and log it. One of the reasons family is asked to provide a recent picture is to aid in identification, along with general appearance, hair/makeup, etc.

Taking a decedent to a crematorium from the funeral home: load the decedent to the hearse check the ID. Upon arrival, turn over the paperwork package. Receiver will check the ID. The cremation operator is supposed to review every document, does that really happen, I dunno. Decades ago, ID bands were plastic. We're gonna need something more durable… like metal that can take high heat. A tag, like what you've got, is placed in the chamber (NOT attached to the body), and documented. The decedent is placed in the cremation chamber. The process takes place.

During the removal of the cremains (ashes) from the chamber, the tag is included. Some minor processing occurs for removal of foreign objects, like pace maker leads, dental appliances, etc. The cremains and tag are put in a plastic bag and sealed. The bag is put in an urn or other container. The cremains are returned. If they go to the family, the process and paperwork is done. If they go back to a funeral home, cemetery, etc the ID chain continues until the final destination of the cremains is achieved.

You now have LEGAL proof of ID through the chain of custody, from the time of death to the return to the family.

There you have it from what I remember from 40 years ago, when I did pick ups and removals for a short time. Some of this has probably changed. Updates anyone?

 

[Tom_in_CA]

I think that the reason these tags get found on beaches and such, is that : Persons can stipulate, in -their -will, that their ashes be scattered at "such and such location". Eg.: the Ocean. Or a certain beach or scenic overlook. Or certain favorite lake they'd known, etc....

And so when the "next of kin" opens the little box containing the ashes (which amount to no more than a cup-or two, resembling dirt and pebbles) , they just toss the entire contents into the surf, or off the cliff, or whatever. Hence gold teeth, toe-tags like yours, etc... can be included.

That's my theory anyhow.

 

[FreeBirdTim]

Makes sense, Tom. Maybe I should just toss it back into the pond out of respect for that person...

 

[vegasplayer]

also the person who dumped the ashes must have brought it back from Florida
the tag is a toe tag that when you die it is attached to your toe when you get burned
all the ashes and tag all burn then they go into a box or a urn
i have found a few a 1 full urn that i tossed back deep into the ocean.

 

[Ken Clad]

Makes sense, Tom.

No, not really.

Oh Tom, Tom, Tom theories like these are where the rumors/inaccuracies/problems start surrounding the death process. Let's just get to the facts:

Persons can stipulate, in -their -will, that their ashes be scattered at "such and such location". Eg.: the Ocean. Or a certain beach or scenic overlook. Or certain favorite lake they'd known, etc....

You can stipulate anything you want, but it's legally complicated. Federal, State, County and/or locals laws apply. Cremains are human remains in an emotional sense, but legally, not so much. You see, they are inert… in a chemical sense that is not really a human being in that urn… no DNA, diseases, etc.

That brings us to permissions. We know how you love permissions. Just doing your own thing is just ethically wrong. The fact is you are dumping something, somewhere. If someone decided YOUR flowerbed is where they want their loved one to be for eternity, then, without your permission… and dumps away under the cover of darkness, I'll go out on a limb here, but guess you'd be upset your private property had been violated. So, just dumping cremains out in the public space is NOT OK! The, daily "don't ask for permission" rant DOES NOT apply here, IMO.

So, Federal law generally allows you to dispose of cremains at sea: BUT, you need to be more than three miles from land and the water is over 600 feet deep. There are other rules: in a nut shell don’t toss ANYTHING non-biodegradable overboard, including the urn itself. This defines "the sea", NOT the beach. The beach could be private, city property, part of a state or national park. You need to contact the authority that oversees the beach in question.

If you think MD'ers get a bad rap, think about people dumping cremains just any place. Ya know why people do that? A) they're too lazy to do the leg work B) CHEAP, cuz doing it respectfully and legally is expensive. Let's continue...National Forrest - no, don't do it. State and local parks: better find out and get the proper permits. Most national parks, yes, but not all of them. Parks that do allow scattering require a special use permit.

In most states, you can scatter ashes on private property, as long as you have the permission of the land’s owner. You cannot scatter cremains into inland waters.

the little box containing the ashes (which amount to no more than a cup-or two,

No, hard no. Roughly 6-9 pounds of cremains.

Hence gold teeth, toe-tags like yours, etc... can be included.

As in my post #2: "Some minor processing occurs for removal of foreign objects, like pace maker leads, dental appliances, etc." They may miss things, but in general the only thing in the bag is the cremains and the ID tag.

 

[Linesider]

Just cause it’s not legal. Dont mean people dont do it. I used to dive for tropical fish and invertebrates. Found a gold gilded box in the water. Not knowing wat it was i tried banging open. With no luck. I took to the surface. The gold was gold as in no crustacean growth , rest was full algae and in crusted … after light brushing , it had a scripture on it. … long story short. Someone’s ashes for sure.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

....... Federal, State, County and/or locals laws apply. ......

Just cause it’s not legal. Dont mean people dont do it. ........

Thanx Ken. I've seen jewelry-box sized containers, that .... seems as if the entire human remains can fit in a baggie the size of a sandwich baggie. And the little boxes I've held (transporting my father in law, for example) certainly didn't seem to weigh "6 to 9 lbs" . But, perhaps you're right. I dunno on spacial volume and weight.

Ok, but beyond that, Since you typed out a long good perspective (sounds like you know the industry), then I've got a story back-at-ya :

When my father was alive, and was then in his 70s age-wise, a lot of his generation (old work and fraternal organization and church friends, etc...) were starting to pass. Ie.: He began to attend a lot of funerals (go figure, at that age). And he was increasingly being called upon to be a pallbearer, and to assist with funeral proceedings at his church. So much so that staff at the church simply gave him the key to the facilities. And he became the volunteer coordinator for all the funerals (since this is a very big church, and funerals were at the rate of 1x or 2x on any given week). Simply because he enjoyed volunteering in his senior years.

to be continued :......

 

[Tom_in_CA]

One such funeral that my dad organized the logistics for, was an outdoor event. At a particular city beach , on the ocean, which has a beautiful ocean side turfed park that sits on the bluff above. So there's sometimes outdoor weddings there, for example. And in this case, was going to be an outdoor memorial session following a funeral. And my dad set up the chairs, the P.A. system, and so forth.

This particular beach had been the man's favorite beach . He would go there daily just to sit, meditate, etc... And now , he had stipulated in his will, that he wanted his ashes scattered there out over the rocks, into the surf. Hence the reason for the outside memorial service there.

When it was all over, and my dad was taking down the chairs and equipment. He saw the widow crying. He figured she was mourning with grief, so he went over to comfort and console her . The widow began to explain to my dad, that she was crying because "...she can't spread Harold's ashes there" . My dad asked "What do you mean ?" And the lady spelled it out :

A few days before this event was scheduled, she had called the city (Pacific Grove, CA), and asked if it was ok to do. They passed her around, desk to desk, and no one really knew what to tell her. Except, that they eventually reasoned that , since it was the beach, then it was under the jurisdiction of the "Monterey Bay Marine Sanctuary" (a coastal commission organization that oversees environmental whale and sea-life stuff, for a few hundred miles of CA coastline, of which our portion is a part of that larger entity).

So the lady calls them. And again gets bandied desk to desk, with no one really having an answer. Till finally she's arrived as someone's extension, who gives her the answer .

 

[Tom_in_CA]

This last "coastal commission" lawyer dude tells her : "No". That it constitutes polluting, environmental hazard, or whatever. And advises here to hire one of the private small planes, that, for a fee, will fly the ashes a certain # of miles off shore. To where it's "outside the mileage zone", blah blah.

But the lady was grief-stricken, because Harold's last wishes, in-his-will, were specifically that it be on this certain beach. Not out in the middle of the ocean.

My dad listened to her tale of entanglement with bureaucracy. And was mystified because he had done funerals before, and seen ashes being scattered into the surf. So this was all news to him. He never even knew it was a supposed issue. Nor did it ever occur to him that it needed permission.

So he asked the lady : "Do you want Harold's ashes scattered here ?" She tear-fully wimpered : "Yes". He says : "Hand it to me". She hands him the little box. Whereupon my dad walked out to the furthest point, on the pinnacles of the rock outcropping at the waters' edge, and : Did the deed. Came back, handed her the empty box. Presto, problem solved.

 

[Ken Clad]

Just cause it’s not legal. Dont mean people dont do it.

They do it because it can be such a huge PITA to do it right.

sounds like you know the industry

I just dabbled in the industry. As a working FF/EMT, I wasn't exactly sheltered from handling decedents. I was childhood friends with a guy whose family that owned a funeral home. In a pinch one day, he called me and asked if I could help out with, shall we say, a rather corpulent decedent. From there it was occasional pallbearer for hire, and other non mortician tasks. Everything that family did was about care and respect for the living and the dead… it's not weird and creepy… it's a part of the life journey, and a business. The misconceptions of the goings on in that industry are epic.

So the lady calls them. And again gets bandied desk to desk, with no one really having an answer. Till finally she's arrived as someone's extension, who gives her the answer .

This should NEVER happen. The run around, and final "no" for an answer. Sometimes, not always, the mortuary handling the final arrangements know the people to speak to, the paperwork to file and can avoid the hassle for the family. Like I said, don't be lazy and cheap, work the process to get to something dignified and respectful to all.

 

[Silver_Seeker]

Makes sense, Tom. Maybe I should just toss it back into the pond out of respect for that person...

I've found several of these on RI beaches, I always throw them back our of respect and it's kinda creepy. That person wanted their ashes spread at that location. Granted the tag isn't them, but still.

 

[SeabeeRon]

When my father was alive, and was then in his 70s age-wise, a lot of his generation (old work and fraternal organization and church friends, etc...) were starting to pass. Ie.: He began to attend a lot of funerals (go figure, at that age). And he was increasingly being called upon to be a pallbearer, and to assist with funeral proceedings at his church. So much so that staff at the church simply gave him the key to the facilities. And he became the volunteer coordinator for all the funerals (since this is a very big church, and funerals were at the rate of 1x or 2x on any given week). Simply because he enjoyed volunteering in his senior years.

Totally "off topic" here Tom but I remember your dad fondly from attending and working Cursillos back in the late 70s and early 80s.