Advice on learning the Manticore

[kelpike]

I have been detecting for a number of years and I still struggle with learning the sounds. I have really good hearing but I just can't distinguish between lets say a good coin sound or a good aluminum can sound, or even a good pull-tab sound, for that matter. They often sound exactly the same to me. I am looking for tips to use because I can't distinguish between the "good" sounds. To put it another way, tips for someone with bad hearing that has to rely on what the screen of the machine says. I've been reading through different "Manticore" posts and came across a "tip" from a thread that jmaclen started called:

(Minelab Manticore and Deep Silver). Someone had asked him about the signal, and his reply was the perfect type of "tip" that I am looking for. I would think that this could help others too. "I have experienced a couple of faint mixed ferrous and high tone audio examples where I could not see a target ID or Target Trace. Before I dig any of these deep targets I depend on the onboard pinpoint function to really zero in on the possible target. If I get a fully complete bullseye I’m digging. Sometimes it's rusted iron and sometimes it's wheats, indians, silver Rosies or Mercs, a ring or a much older/bigger coin. If the bullseye cannot be completed the target has been small rusted iron so far. That could change....who knows." I have no idea why my font changed halfway through this post.​

 

[Diggndabeeps]

Very interesting. I never thought to look to see how complete the bullseye is when pinpointing. I'm definitely going to try that technique tomorrow. Thanks, kelpike, for finding jmaclen's quote.

 

[Eastender]

Generally, coins will definitely show a small circular target on the center line to the far right of the graph. Signal will be repeatable and consistent numerically. Good targets can be masked by close metal objects, large iron can give high numbers with an irregular target shape, and depth can weaken the signal, but a high number on a small target is worth investigating.

 

[sube]

I have been detecting for a number of years and I still struggle with learning the sounds. I have really good hearing but I just can't distinguish between lets say a good coin sound or a good aluminum can sound, or even a good pull-tab sound, for that matter. They often sound exactly the same to me. I am looking for tips to use because I can't distinguish between the "good" sounds. To put it another way, tips for someone with bad hearing that has to rely on what the screen of the machine says. I've been reading through different "Manticore" posts and came across a "tip" from a thread that jmaclen started called:

(Minelab Manticore and Deep Silver). Someone had asked him about the signal, and his reply was the perfect type of "tip" that I am looking for. I would think that this could help others too. "I have experienced a couple of faint mixed ferrous and high tone audio examples where I could not see a target ID or Target Trace. Before I dig any of these deep targets I depend on the onboard pinpoint function to really zero in on the possible target. If I get a fully complete bullseye I’m digging. Sometimes it's rusted iron and sometimes it's wheats, indians, silver Rosies or Mercs, a ring or a much older/bigger coin. If the bullseye cannot be completed the target has been small rusted iron so far. That could change....who knows." I have no idea why my font changed halfway through this post.​

I have used the CTX for 13 years and had tested the manticore both well detect deeper in pinpoint mode meaning the red circle will fill more so in pinpoint mode as to disc mode .
But getting past 7 inches there is not enough signal to fill the circle red pinpoint will give another inch .
Past 8 inches and waiting for it to turn red good luck your going to leave good targets .
I would suggest in your soil to bury a coin your looking for and see where the cutoff in your soil is .
6 inches yes great tool the circle will fill but as you get deeper and the signal gets weaker the red in the circle will be less and less . sube

 

[Cherry Picker]

I'm new to the Manticore, but I've got 50 years of detecting under my belt. In that 50 years I've had the luck to try virtually every top rated detector on, or has been on the market. The skill it has given me is the ability to learn the capabilities of a detector usually pretty quick. I have learned what to expect. So far, I really like the Manticore. I feel it has earned the lable as a top tier detector. I had hopes I would take it to my local city park where the coins are extremely deep and out of reach of all but a few detectors, and it would bring the park back to life. Well, it didn't bring any more deeper coins than a few of my other detectors, the E-Trac & D2, but it did just as well.

What I need to know is what I can adjust to possibly bring some life back to this park? The coins are there this much I know, but we're looking at coins below 12", and in spots, 24" and more. Below 8" it is pretty much coins and iron. The iron is mainly nails and wire. A sweep with the Manticore and I get a high tone ofetn, but it is not repeatable, and nothibng on the VDI or 2D. Once in a while, I'll get an 80s or 90s on the VDI, but not repeatable. Pinpointing indicated a target where the high tone hit, but I just can't recover them all. The one I recovered yesterday was a piece of can slaw about 7" deep in the side of the hole. That took me close to 30 minutes to get to. I need better odds. Any suggestions?

Thanks

 

[Diga]

CP,

I also need a detector that goes much deeper than the typical detectors that most of use. I had high hopes that it would be a Golden Mask 4-Extreme. I bought one, and it didn't go any deeper.

The only other possibility I can think of is the Nexus MP V3. That detector hits coin sized targets about 6" to 10" deeper than anything like the Nox, Legend, D2, or Manticore. I have no idea how it can hit that deep, and I wouldn't have believed it if I didn't see it with my own eyes.

Price for that bad boy? Around $2800 with two coils and shipping to North America.

 

[Rattlehead]

CP,
What settings are you currently using, and what’s the soil like at your park?

 

[Cherry Picker]

CP,
What settings are you currently using, and what’s the soil like at your park?

I have left everything factory on the ATG. The park soil is not hot but basic, but has a lot of deep iron. The Arkansas River runs alongside it and used to have a major flood every 30 to 40 years, clear back to the 1800s, from my research. Each flood deposited roughly 3" to 6" of new soil. In 1933, a 24" sandstone wall was built in a good part of the park. This wall worked to capture the mud from the floods after 1933, burying anything dropped 3" to 6" deeper on each flood. Today you can see the ground inside the wall is now flush with the 24" tall wall, but the outside is still 24" from ground to the top of th wall. The inside used to be the same. These areas are located at very active locations. I have found many old coins, but nothing deeper than 12". Because I haven't found a detector that will go deeper.

My E-Trac can give me iffy readings that deep, but many I recover are either rusted nails or wire, I assume from old fencing. Once you get down below 8", I have found pretty much nothing but nails and wire, or coins. I just can't recover that deep anymore without better odds that I will get a coin. I can narrow my odds to around 50/50 with the E-Trac. I was hoping the Manticore would increase those odds in my favor. This old body can't do those 50/50 iffys anymore. I'm hoping maybe some adjustments in the setting of the Manticore might help get me that little depth I need.

 

[Rattlehead]

Getting a coin at 12”+ would be a stretch for any VLF detector in my soil, though I’ve found the Manticore to be the deepest of all the ones I’ve used.

Now I make no claims of being a guru with the Manticore, but I may be able to offer a few suggestions which may help.

I have a park nearby that’s similar to what you described. I’ve had some success hunting it by discriminating with target size and depth rather than TID. I run ATG, accepting a nickel slot and everything above 43. I only dig tight signals that are at least 3 arrows on the depth meter and repeat consistently in at least one direction, even if it’s just a very narrow window. Since this park is loaded with iron, any nearby masker will drag the numbers down, so I don’t pay much attention to the TID. If it’s deep, coin sized, and repeats, I dig it. The key (for me) to not wearing myself out chasing deep junk is that I don’t dig any ghosty signals. If it’s not solid and repeatable in at least one direction, it stays in the ground.

If you find yourself chasing a lot of falsing iron signals, don’t be afraid to drop the upper limits down some until the amount of falsing is more tolerable. A lot of people will tell you “no you gotta open it up”, but that’s not always the case IMO. Us old farts simply can’t chase everything that gives a crappy signal. It’s a trade off. Set it where it’s comfortable to you and run with it.

The depth audio theme can be very helpful for deeper targets. No other audio type will make the deep stuff stand out more, and it makes judging target size and depth extremely easy. It takes a little time to get used to, but well worth the effort IMHO. It’s all I use now.

ATHC might get a little more depth on coins, but from what I’ve seen in my tests, the difference between that program and ATG is very minimal, and it’s a little more sparky on iron. I prefer ATG.

As you know, lowering the recovery speed a little can improve depth, though I never go below 4 unless I’m in an open field with few targets.

As for sensitivity, I don’t see much gain in running it above 25. Just less stability. In my area, I stay around 20-22 with the 11” coil and 24 with the M9. Plenty deep and very stable at those levels.

I know you have many years experience with flagship detectors, as do I…. but it still takes time to truly learn these new machines. I’ve been using the Manticore since it was released, and logged a LOT of hours on it now, yet I’m still learning it. Stick with it and I bet you’ll be pulling lots more coins out of that old park. Good luck!

 

[Cherry Picker]

Getting a coin at 12”+ would be a stretch for any VLF detector in my soil, though I’ve found the Manticore to be the deepest of all the ones I’ve used.

Now I make no claims of being a guru with the Manticore, but I may be able to offer a few suggestions which may help.

I have a park nearby that’s similar to what you described. I’ve had some success hunting it by discriminating with target size and depth rather than TID. I run ATG, accepting a nickel slot and everything above 43. I only dig tight signals that are at least 3 arrows on the depth meter and repeat consistently in at least one direction, even if it’s just a very narrow window. Since this park is loaded with iron, any nearby masker will drag the numbers down, so I don’t pay much attention to the TID. If it’s deep, coin sized, and repeats, I dig it. The key (for me) to not wearing myself out chasing deep junk is that I don’t dig any ghosty signals. If it’s not solid and repeatable in at least one direction, it stays in the ground.

If you find yourself chasing a lot of falsing iron signals, don’t be afraid to drop the upper limits down some until the amount of falsing is more tolerable. A lot of people will tell you “no you gotta open it up”, but that’s not always the case IMO. Us old farts simply can’t chase everything that gives a crappy signal. It’s a trade off. Set it where it’s comfortable to you and run with it.

The depth audio theme can be very helpful for deeper targets. No other audio type will make the deep stuff stand out more, and it makes judging target size and depth extremely easy. It takes a little time to get used to, but well worth the effort IMHO. It’s all I use now.

ATHC might get a little more depth on coins, but from what I’ve seen in my tests, the difference between that program and ATG is very minimal, and it’s a little more sparky on iron. I prefer ATG.

As you know, lowering the recovery speed a little can improve depth, though I never go below 4 unless I’m in an open field with few targets.

As for sensitivity, I don’t see much gain in running it above 25. Just less stability. In my area, I stay around 20-22 with the 11” coil and 24 with the M9. Plenty deep and very stable at those levels.

I know you have many years experience with flagship detectors, as do I…. but it still takes time to truly learn these new machines. I’ve been using the Manticore since it was released, and logged a LOT of hours on it now, yet I’m still learning it. Stick with it and I bet you’ll be pulling lots more coins out of that old park. Good luck!

Thanks Rattlehead. I feel the Manticore could get that depth with the right adjustments. I got that depth with my D2 last winter, but I could only recover 1 of the targets, and it was a coin. I ended up having to sell the D2 before the ground thawed to see if the other targets were in fact coins or iron. I have another D2 now, but I want to concentrate on the Manticore for now.

I get lots of Iffys. High tones that only hit one way, and only every 5th swing or so. Generally, there is nothing on the display. No VDI number and no blotch on the 2D. If I didn't have the medical issues I have, I would dig them all and find out. But as it is, I must be very choosy about what I spend my time recovering. With my E-Trac, the CO VDI was useless, but the FE gave me a good hint. If the FE VDI ever, and I mean ever, got above 18, it was 90% a piece of iron. If the FE stayed low, no matter what, it was 90% of the time a coin. I was hoping I could use the 2D for the same thing on the Manticore, but below 8", I get nothing on the 2D.

 

[Cherry Picker]

I keep seeing users say they keep the sensitivity in the 20s, but from day one, when I turn the detector on, the sensitivity starts at 30 as default.

 

[Rattlehead]

I get lots of Iffys. High tones that only hit one way, and only every 5th swing or so.

I generally avoid those signals. Those wandering delayed signals that only seem to hit every few swings are the ones I refer to as ghosty. It’s been my experience that as long as you swing the coil in the exact same direction and in the exact same position, a non-ferrous will always repeat consistently at the exact time the coil crosses the target, even if only in one direction and from a very narrow window. If it’s only hitting every few swings, IMHO it’s either falsing, or the target isn’t being swept from the same position. Chasing those type of signals will definitely wear a person out.

I keep seeing users say they keep the sensitivity in the 20s, but from day one, when I turn the detector on, the sensitivity starts at 30 as default.

That’s strange. Mine remembers my last used setting. Also, I believe the default sensitivity is 20. Might be worth resetting the machine.

 

[Cherry Picker]

New Manticore startup.

 

[AirmetTango]

New Manticore startup.

CP -

If you change the sensitivity, then turn the Manticore off and then back on again, the machine should retain the new setting. For example, if you ran the sensitivity down from 30 to 22, and turn the machine off, when you turn it back on, it should still be at 22. That's how mine behaves, anyway - just like Rattlehead's.

 

[Cherry Picker]

CP -

If you change the sensitivity, then turn the Manticore off and then back on again, the machine should retain the new setting. For example, if you ran the sensitivity down from 30 to 22, and turn the machine off, when you turn it back on, it should still be at 22. That's how mine behaves, anyway - just like Rattlehead's.

Yeah, I did a factory reset, and it went back to 20. I'm thinking when I first got it and turned it on, I must have hit the + and cranked it up to 30 without knowing. I never changed it lower because I just assumed that was factory. It seemed to handle 30 pretty well. There was a tad bit of EMI noise, but not that bad.

 

[Rattlehead]

Yeah, I did a factory reset, and it went back to 20. I'm thinking when I first got it and turned it on, I must have hit the + and cranked it up to 30 without knowing. I never changed it lower because I just assumed that was factory. It seemed to handle 30 pretty well. There was a tad bit of EMI noise, but not that bad.

It'll still run more stable and false less if you'll drop it down below 25. Your depth won't suffer at all, and you'll be surprised at how much more stable your TID will be. When I got my first Manticore, I did a test on a 9" penny in the field. The results were eye opening.

 

[Daniel Tn]

Keep this in mind about the Manticore: Slow is smooth and smooth is fast.

That's how you'll learn it and get the best results from it. The Manticore has the ability to run really hot...hotter than most detectors can go and people want to get behind it and run it wide open. That's their first mistake. Start with it throttled back and go slow with it. With sensitivity set in the teens on it, it is about the equivalent to other machines at their max. That makes for a lot of room to play with IF CONDITIONS ALLOW IT. If not...then just keep it throttled back and enjoy.

 

[Cherry Picker]

I've done a factory reset and will give it another shot in the park. I had no idea, but it also looks like the default discrimination pattern had been changed. All is back to factory now.

 

[BobOso]

New Manticore startup.

You had too much notched out, glad you did the reset.
I have 1 program, it might be the fast where quite a bit is notched out, I use that in very trashy parks. The other programs I only change the iron bios settings, and tone for the nickle range. being hard of hearing for low tones, I will miss a nickle unless it screams at me, it is a global setting if you change it, you will also hear the pull tabs that fall in the range, but you can usually determine if is a pull tab, the bounce more, where as a nickle is usually 27-28. Buffalo nickles are a 25, my tone setting for the nickles is set to 25-29, small range.

 

[BobOso]

I have been detecting for a number of years and I still struggle with learning the sounds. I have really good hearing but I just can't distinguish between lets say a good coin sound or a good aluminum can sound, or even a good pull-tab sound, for that matter. They often sound exactly the same to me. I am looking for tips to use because I can't distinguish between the "good" sounds. To put it another way, tips for someone with bad hearing that has to rely on what the screen of the machine says. I've been reading through different "Manticore" posts and came across a "tip" from a thread that jmaclen started called:

(Minelab Manticore and Deep Silver). Someone had asked him about the signal, and his reply was the perfect type of "tip" that I am looking for. I would think that this could help others too. "I have experienced a couple of faint mixed ferrous and high tone audio examples where I could not see a target ID or Target Trace. Before I dig any of these deep targets I depend on the onboard pinpoint function to really zero in on the possible target. If I get a fully complete bullseye I’m digging. Sometimes it's rusted iron and sometimes it's wheats, indians, silver Rosies or Mercs, a ring or a much older/bigger coin. If the bullseye cannot be completed the target has been small rusted iron so far. That could change....who knows." I have no idea why my font changed halfway through this post.​

Large aluminum cans usually have a hollow sound along with sprinkler heads , as for pull tabs, the only way is to watch the screen, if it bounces say 26-27-28, then chances are it is a pull tab, if it either does not bounce or only 1 number, then chances are it is a nickle.
If you are looking for deep silver then use high conductor. only dig repeatable signals until you learn the machine, also a coin, silver or clad is usually on the center line and round. Blotches or oblong targets are usually trash.
When I say usually for blotches, I have found coin spills mixed with iron above and below the line, a gold/silver chain depending on how it is laying can be oblong.
I do not know how the dirt is where you live, but here in the summer the ground is like concrete, so 1 - 2 inches is max I can dig, in the winter,spring and fall when it is cool and we have had rain, we can dig to China.
lay out a dime, and a copper penny, they will ring close to the same numbers, that is just the way it is, a zinc is in the 60's, copper usually 80's along with dimes.