Guess you need to move to Miami
A Most Unusual GOLD CHAIN Find!
- Thread starter FelixtheCat
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Tom_in_CA
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Reminds me of the time, during an erosion episode, that a buddy of mine shouted at me : "Hey Tom, come look at this". I walked over to him, and looked down to where he was pointing. There was this tinsel thin gold chain right there on the surfaced (exposed by the erosion). He had only eyeballed it, but not touched it yet. We had fun trying both our machines over it, and NOT EVEN A FLUTTER. Granted, we each had standard discriminating machines (I think he had an excal, and I had an explorer). And granted, it wasn't as beefy as the one in your pix (ours was tinsel thin).
At first blush, that might *seem* like a reason to rush out and buy a pulse machine, eh ? (lest you miss tinsel chains and earring studs). But the truth be told : The intrinsic value/weight of those tinsel thin chains and earring studs is so meager, that I'll gladly admit to missing them, in order to avoid the downsides of pulse machines. Doh !
KOB
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I love my pulse no matter what. What you see in my pic is an enlarged view. The chain isn't as big as it looks. But notice the camouflage against the gold flecks in the black sand. I think that's why others missed it. Just gold a gold flash when I walked by and stopped. And yes , though on the surface it was a very faint blip on my PI. It happens sometimes especially with the blacksand around.
I magnet test every silver and gold item.Felix better magnet test that , same clasp on the fake chain I found that was gold plate & light
Surf Master
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Guess you need to move to Miami
I would imagine there are some fake chains on Miami beaches , along with the genuine High Carrot chains , i would bet you have found plenty of that junk .
Sand Hunter
Elite Member
Had a similar event back around 2010/11 when I just started hunting beaches and before I got my Sov. I was swinging a Garrett AT Pro, hitting the mid-high wet walking towards the lifeguard tower, beach was empty except for me. As I got closer to the lifeguard tower, I saw a chain sticking 1/2 out of the sand. I was excited to make an eyeball find but was also a wee bit bummed that I didn't get to detect the find, lol.
I don't think I ran my coil over the chain, I probably just pulled it out, popped into my pouch and kept going. And back in those days, I probably had a flip phone, so wasn't able to take pics of my finds in the field. I was in too much of a hurry anyway, lol.
melbajoe
Forum Supporter
nice story and nice chain
I have kissed many frogs to get some princesses.I would imagine there are some fake chains on Miami beaches , along with the genuine High Carrot chains , i would bet you have found plenty of that junk .
If you ball it up and rub it on coil it will sound off lightly... I'm sure everyone knows that detectors see gold chains 1 link at a time, they do not see the entire chain. and the link or clasp has to be large enough. Silver chains no problem its just gold.
Scubacat
Elite Member
Around 12-0-12. I tried several other settings and the air test. Nada.
johnny utah
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Just amazing Felix!!
what a score!!
what a score!!
under-D-water
Forum Supporter
You should have gone back to find the ring you lost.
Congrats on the other finds
Congrats on the other finds
I tried the Nox on the "gold prospecting setting" as well - no sound.
Kansashunter
Elite Member
Congrats on the gold!
Bear stalker
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Sweet finds! I never knew this about thin gold chains. That's kinda depressing. 
About a month ago, my nephew brought one of his little vials over that had a tiny speck of gold in it he had found panning. He asked me to see if my Nox could pick it up because the detector he just bought couldn't. After a little tweaking I was actually able to get a decent hit off it. Albeit air testing, not in the ground. But still surprised me on something smaller than a pin head.
About a month ago, my nephew brought one of his little vials over that had a tiny speck of gold in it he had found panning. He asked me to see if my Nox could pick it up because the detector he just bought couldn't. After a little tweaking I was actually able to get a decent hit off it. Albeit air testing, not in the ground. But still surprised me on something smaller than a pin head.
Scubacat
Elite Member
How can you know it is gold then unless you have it melted (I understand there is a mark, but it is not your regular case it "sounds".) I am not ready to have the bracelet I found damaged in any way at this point. It is say 20 bucks as scrap and presumably 10 times more than that if sold as a jewelry piece.
Sand Hunter
Elite Member
So, if I'm reading this right, you had:
Gain: set at 12 o'clock? which is the recommended setting, but of course, needs to be adjusted to specific conditions.
Pulse Timing/Delay: set at 0 or minimum?
Threshold: set at 12 o'clock? recommended setting is around 11 o'clock but more on this in a moment.
Disclaimer: I am not an expert with the Dual Field. I recently acquired a Dual Field that was previously owned and modded by OBN. This is my first PI, and I've had it out on 4 beach hunts so far. That said, my observations/opinions are not just based on the short time that I've used my DF but are also based on all the other detectors I've owned and used over the last 56 years.
I run my DF's gain starting at 12 o'clock as well, but if I can get away with inching it up higher, I'll try to get the highest gain I can without falsing or getting ghost signals. But since 12 o'clock is the recommended setting, you should have been OK as far as gain setting for the most part.
Like you, I also run my Pulse Timing/Delay at the minimum setting just after clicking it on, which I think is around 15u-18u, to minimize loss of any potential targets. I've heard some DF hunters use the Pulse Timing/Delay as a kind of discrimination. When they get a signal, they'll start turning the Timing/Delay knob up, if they lose the tone after just starting to turn the knob, it might be a higher conductivity target or possibly junk, but if they continue getting a signal after turning the knob way up, could be gold. I tried it a few times but not seriously enough to give an opinion. But I also keep mine at the lowest possible setting, just to be on the safe side and minimize potential target loss.
As far as Threshold, this is where I have a differing opinion, and where I "think" the issue may possibly be. IMHO, Threshold isn't something where there should be a recommended setting, because it can vary for each person. I have Threshold on my Sovereign Elite and adjustment can vary a wee bit based on various factors. The DF has a mark at 11 o'clock, which would be their recommended setting for Threshold. Since starting as a kid, I was always trained to keep Threshold as low as possible, just high enough to be able to hear a barely audible tone. Setting the Threshold to be barely audible is supposed to provide the highest level of sensitivity, and I've even seen some people refer to the DF's Threshold knob as a sensitivity adjustment.
But the thing is, I don't think that Threshold is a one size fits all type adjustment. It requires adjustment based on several factors, which can be different for every hunter:
* The primary factor would be a person's hearing ability. I might be able to adjust the Threshold to where I just barely hear it, but another guy might not be able to hear anything and would have to adjust Threshold up a bit for his ears to hear, or vice-versa.
* Another factor would be headphones. Cheap headphones might require adjusting Threshold higher. I have a cheap set of Garrett headphones for my Sovereign, so I'm sure I'm not getting the most sensitivity out of the threshold that I could get with better phones. But for my DF, I use a set of Tony Eisenhower Blue Divers headphones with larger cups for better noise attenuation, along with his impedance matching circuitry that provides louder volume. Better & more quiet headphones that produces a louder volume would allow the user to adjust the Threshold tone lower to get a barely audible tone.
* Environmental noise in the area. A person might have to adjust Threshold up a bit higher if using cheap headphones or hunting on wet sand with the sound of crashing waves or kids screaming in the background, also wind noise may come into play, so might need to turn Threshold up to still be able to hear a slightly audible tone.
Just for grins, I pulled out my DF, popped on my Tony Eisenhower headphones, and adjusted Threshold to where I got a barely audible tone, just a hair above silence, then I checked the setting. I had the knob at 10 o'clock to get that barely audible tone. But of course, that was in the quiet of my basement, so if I was out on the beach, dealing with crashing waves & other outside noise, I'd probably have to increase to 10:30 or so +/-. But when it comes to Threshold, we're dealing with very slight, minute adjustments to get it set to where we can just hear an audible tone. Just a personal rant here but I could never figure why manufacturers use standard potentiometers for Threshold adjustments. I've always wished they would have used either 3 or 5 turn pots, to allow the user to micro adjust the Threshold to really zero in on a barely audible tone for their ears, headphones and environment.
So, if you had Threshold set at 12 o'clock, I can't tell if that's a barely audible tone for your ears/headphones, or if it's a louder, more steady tone. For me, I tried 12 o'clock and the Threshold was very loud, which for me, would definitely affect the sensitivity and my ability to notice very subtle changes in the Threshold, like nulling/audio cutouts or very faint whispers when over very deep targets. If Threshold is connected to sensitivity, which was how I was taught long ago, and how some other guys have described, if you had the Threshold adjusted too high (i.e., too loud & not just barely audible), you may have inadvertently lost some sensitivity, and/or at least the ability to hear very minute & slight subtle changes that typically signify deeper targets or much weaker signals, like you might get from a thin chain.
Lastly, you mentioned air test. Keep in mind that some detectors don't seem to perform well with air tests, they do much better with buried targets. My Sovereign is like that, and I think the DF/PI might be like that as well. Just another thing to keep in mind. Might want to take a thin chain to the beach and try burying in dry & wet sand, see if the DF can pick it up after it's been buried.
I'll have to ask the wife and my daughter if they have a thin, dainty chain so I can try my DF to see if it picks it up. A PI not being able to pick up even a small thin chain with tiny links is a head scratcher IMO. The first time I took my DF out on its inaugural hunt, I got a loud signal, thought I had run my coil over a refrigerator, lol. Took a few scoops but target was so small it kept falling through the holes in my scoop. Had to use my fingers to sift through the sand but I finally found it. It was a teeny, tiny metal eyelet, that wasn't much bigger than a BB. So, if a DF could hit on such a tiny, minute piece of metal, probably at least several inches down in the dry, why wouldn't it be able to hit on tiny metal chain links, definitely a head scratcher IMO.
Can't say for sure if this might have been the issue, these are just my opinions/observations based on what you described, but it's the only thing that comes to mind based on the settings you provided. Of course, if your detector or coil has an internal electronic issue, that's a different story, but from an adjustment standpoint, I think setting your Threshold at 12 o'clock might have been too high and could have been a contributing factor, at least it would be for my ears & the headphones I use. Of course, your mileage may vary depending on your ears/hearing and quality/quietness of the headphones you use.
Scubacat
Elite Member
Thank you for the detailed answer. It is educational. I guess I was not clear enough about the issue. My DF works fine and picks up the tiniest targets which I have to find with my hands just as you describe. And my Threshold setting varies between 11 and 12 depending on the ambient noise and the state of the batteries. Also I like the signal to be slightly "hot". So the issue is just one particular 14 g silver bracelet that registers under no settings as if it were not made of metal at all. Here are the pictures and I hope it is OK if I show them again.
Attachments
Sand Hunter
Elite Member
UPDATE: Hey Scubacat, after making the above post, my curiosity got the best of me. I asked the wife if she had any really thin, dainty jewelry chains. She doesn't wear bracelets but she offered me her chain necklace, used to hold a tiny cross. Man, I don't know how women wear these things, it's so friggin' thin and dainty, I held it like I was holding eggs, scared I would damage or break it.
I don't know how this would compare to a chain with individual links, but the links in the pic that Felix posted are huge compared to my wife's tiny chain. I'm not an engineer so I'm not sure if there's an electrical difference but this was the smallest, thinnest and most dainty chain I have available to test. Here's a pic of the entire chain, I added a quarter & nickel for scale:
I zoomed in a bit more and took a 2nd pic, to more clearly see the tiny chain against the quarter/nickel. This chain is so tiny & dainty, that it's pretty much invisible when my wife is wearing it, have to really get up close to her to see the chain:
This is by no means a scientific test, but I was really curious to see if my DF could pick up on this teeny tiny chain. I was planning to hold the detector with my right hand and swing the chain in front of the coil with my left. I forgot that I was wearing a brace on my left forearm for tendonitis, so I had to remove the brace because it has metal sticks inside for support, didn't want to have any metal on my left arm or hand. After removing the brace, I started adjusting the DF but there was too much EMI & metal in my basement, so I moved out to my yard where there's no EMI or metal that I detected. I adjusted the DF like I usually do before starting to hunt:
Gain: on 12 (recommended setting as my initial starting point)
Pulse Timing/Delay: clicked on then backed down to minimal 0 setting
Threshold: Tried setting Threshold in the basement but way too much EMI & metal around, so I took the DF outside where there's no EMI or metal in the vicinity and set the Threshold to where I could hear a barely audible tone, just a hair above silence, which as usual for me and my headphones, was at approximately 10 o'clock, and below the recommended Threshold setting mark at 11 o'clock.
I'm sure my neighbor sitting outside was wondering what the heck I was doing, as I was trying to hold & balance the detector in my right hand, while holding the thin chain outstretched with my left hand. I held the chain vertically, with the lobster claw in my left hand above the coil, to minimize the chance that the detector would hit on the claw and started swinging just the chain in front of the coil. By holding the chain vertically, there was no chance that the chain could ball up and present a larger target, so the PI would only be able to "see" the thin chain by itself. There is a teeny eyelet at the bottom of the chain, which is where the lobster claw hooks into. But it's so tiny and hair thin, that I don't think it would have any effect on this test.
I didn't know what to expect so I was pleasantly surprised when my DF started hitting on the chain as I was swinging it in front of the coil. It wasn't an ear piercingly loud signal, but it was definitely loud enough to be heard above the Threshold tone (which is why it's important to adjust Threshold so that it's just barely audible) and gave me a definite signal that alerted me that there was a target in front of the coil and was a signal I definitely heard and would dig. There wasn't any way that I could measure the distance of the chain from the coil, but I'd estimate I was swinging the chain about 2 - 3 inches in front of the coil. Again, this was just an air test and not scientific by any means as trying to hold the detector in my right hand while stretching my left hand out to get the chain in front of the coil was a bit challenging, lol.
I'm not sure electrically how this tiny chain compares to a small bracelet with individual links, but the diameter/size of this chain is definitely much smaller than a chain/bracelet with individual links, like in the pic that Felix posted. Won't be 100% totally sure how the PI would react if this chain was buried in dry or wet sand along with depth, so I'll have to find a chain/bracelet with my DF on the beach to know for sure how it would react, depth it would hit on, etc. But at least now I know that my PI will hit on a teeny tiny necklace chain like the one my wife wears.
Sand Hunter
Elite Member
Sorry about that, my mistake. I know there's been a few discussions about the difficulty some detectors are having hitting on small link jewelry and thought you were talking about the same, so that's why I decided to test my DF with my wife's necklace chain and posted the update.
Hmmm, that's showing 925 so Sterling Silver. Even if it was just junk metal it still should sound off on the DF. BTW, I posted the Update post above before seeing your reply.
Don't know why your DF wouldn't hit on that bracelet. Did you try holding the bracelet at different angles? Just wondering because if you have the bracelet sitting vertically, the width of the bracelet looks fairly narrow, so the coil would have to see a very narrow piece of metal, whereas if you turned the bracelet so that the coil is running over the wider part of the bracelet, that would present a much larger metallic signature to the coil.
I noticed and posted about something similar in my Disappearing Signals post. I'd get a good signal, take a scoop, target still in hole. Take another scoop, target still in hole, take a 3rd scoop, no signal in the hole but also no signal in the sand pile, totally disappeared. Used to drive me crazy until one time I got so frustrated, I shoved the scoop back in the hole, took another scoopful of sand, dumped into the pile, and the target was now in the sand pile. And every time that happened, it turned out to be a coin.
What I figured was happening was that the coin was lying horizontally when I detected it, and it was presenting a larger metallic signature when lying horizontal. But while I was scooping out sand from the hole, the scoop had pushed the coin up against the wall of sand, so it was now standing vertically, not horizontally. So instead of the coil being able to see the larger round shape of the coin, it had to try to see only the narrow width of the coin. And as I kept digging, the coin would drop deeper and deeper in the hole, where eventually, the coil wasn't able to hit on the narrow width of the coin, which was now deeper than when first detected.
