Next level upgrade from Nokta Legend?

Good question, I'll be following.

Mark in Michigan

From a performance perspective, the detectors you mentioned all use Multi-IQ technology. How much of a performance advantage the more expensive Multi-IQ detectors achieve, is a major point of contention and debate. For example, a 50% increase in transmit power, only results in a mere 7% depth increase (under perfect conditions), yet some Manticore owners will say it detects "way deeper" than their 800 / 900 or Legend, while others will say "it hits a little bit deeper", or "about the same".

Bottom line:

Take two experienced and knowledgeable hunters, that know how to get the best out of a detector. One hunter uses a full featured lower cost Multi-IQ detector, and the other hunter uses a full featured high cost Multi-IQ detector. Each hunter sets up the detectors in a similar manner. Put those hunters on the same site, and after the hunt, they will walk out with the same amount of trash and treasure.

Welcome to the forum. From what I have both heard and read, the Legend IS the next level machine. I have an E-Trac and I'm seriously thinking about moving to the Legend. I have come to the conclusion that more money outlay doesn't mean you will find more treasures. There is only ONE constant in metal detecting, you have to get the coil over the target you seek. But I also know what it's like when you have so many newer and more advanced detectors to choose from. Like Mark said, I'll be following on your quest. GL&HH

My buddy that I gave my old Whites XLT to a couple of years ago has moved to another state and we don't detect together anymore. But he called me yesterday to ask about upgrading from the XLT I gave him. He had his eyes on a 900. I told him he'd be better off spending less on a Legend.

He covets my Manticore though and said he's going to save up a bit more and go that way instead. Wasn't my advice. As he's a beep and dig it all kind of guy not into learning settings or anything. He's never taken one word of advice I've given him on using the XLT. He'd been using it more than a year and I found out he didn't even know how to adjust sensitivity. And he gets out a lot, more than I do. But all he'll ever do with any machine is turn it on and go. But he sees how much park silver I pull with the Manticore and thinks he has to have it. Hopefully he'll listen when I tell him to learn how to turn down the sensitivity and turn up the recovery speed. But I doubt it...

- Dave

The Legend is just as good as those expensive machines. Don't blow your money.

Steve

SDA67 said:

So, given that the Legend is such a solid machine, what would be the next level detector to look at? Would it be going on to “all in” with the XP Deus 2 or the Manticore, or something just below like the Equinox 900?

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Despite the hype, there is no significant "next level" performance on the current market. The last level was achieved with the Original Nox and its Multi-IQ. The Legend, D2, and Manticore are just very slight modifications of Multi-IQ.

The "next level" would be discrimination ability. More specifically, something like the ability to distinguish between aluminum trash and gold jewelry. The D2 or Manticore can't do those things any better than a Nox or Legend.

Unless you have a specific need to spend more on a detector (like the light weight of a D2), then don't waste your money. Detectors like the Nox and Legend, are already at, or very, very near, the highest level.

The Manticore is a solid upgrade from the 800 in just about every way. It's deeper, faster, better built, way better ergos, much nicer display, much better UI for settings, handles EMI significantly better and so on. To me it is a next level compared to the 800. It does get me more finds. Whether the difference in cost is worth it or not, debatable. Yes to me, I have zero regret on buying it and wouldn't want to go back to the 800. No to others. Which is fine. And for that matter, I know of at least two people who have owned both the 900 and the Manticore and got rid of their 900's but still have their Manticores. They both have D2's as well.

Legend is the bang for the buck champion right now though. I wouldn't buy a 900 if I had a Legend and if I had neither I'd buy the Legend instead of a 900. From there, if the money isn't a deal breaker, D2 or Manticore. Each has some slight advantage over the other in certain situations, so personal preference between them if you're only going to have one of them.

Interested to see what Garrett brings with their new machine and where it falls in the current order of price/performance in the VLF market.

- Dave

Diga said:

From a performance perspective, the detectors you mentioned all use Multi-IQ technology. How much of a performance advantage the more expensive Multi-IQ detectors achieve, is a major point of contention and debate. For example, a 50% increase in transmit power, only results in a mere 7% depth increase (under perfect conditions), yet some Manticore owners will say it detects "way deeper" than their 800 / 900 or Legend, while others will say "it hits a little bit deeper", or "about the same".

Bottom line:

Take two experienced and knowledgeable hunters, that know how to get the best out of a detector. One hunter uses a full featured lower cost Multi-IQ detector, and the other hunter

Click to expand...

Diga said:

uses a full featured high cost Multi-IQ detector. Each hunter sets up the detectors in a similar manner. Put those hunters on the same site, and after the hunt, they will walk out with the same amount of trash and treasure.

Click to expand...

Multi iq must be patented so no other detector can be using it. Legend is most likely just multifrequency, Xp also with super fast recovery speed?

metaladdict said:

Multi iq must be patented so no other detector can be using it. Legend is most likely just multifrequency, Xp also with super fast recovery speed?

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Yes, Minelab has a patent on Multi-IQ.

Minelab sued Nokta over it. The patent infringement lawsuit has been in the court system for about 3 years now. Nokta vehemently denies the patent infringement. So far, nothing has come out of the lawsuit.

When it comes to the D2, I suspect XP modified Multi-IQ just enough that Codan's lawyers didn't think they would win a patent infringement lawsuit --OR-- XP has a royalty / licensing deal with Minelab. I think it's the latter.

I like reading about the Legend, if I got out more, that would be my choice, from my AT Pro. ! Hope you find what, works for you.
too_

Diga said:

Despite the hype, there is no significant "next level" performance on the current market. The last level was achieved with the Original Nox and its Multi-IQ. The Legend, D2, and Manticore are just very slight modifications of Multi-IQ.

The "next level" would be discrimination ability. More specifically, something like the ability to distinguish between aluminum trash and gold jewelry. The D2 or Manticore can't do those things any better than a Nox or Legend.

Unless you have a specific need to spend more on a detector (like the light weight of a D2), then don't waste your money. Detectors like the Nox and Legend, are already at, or very, very near, the highest level.

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Depends on what significant means.
Salt beach performance.
Try that Manticore with M8 coil on the small stuff. And compare with Legend with small coil..see what happens. Hmm

Any advantage is just that. An advantage. It may not be witnessed on every detecting scenario either.
Also.
I have already talked about Manticore’s ability to alert on some lower conductors sweeping down nail barrel (via using custom user ferrous limits settings). Try this with a Nox. Hmmm

I don’t make blanket statements.
Just share info.

You could go to a Minelab Equinox 900 (which I use) but I’m not really sure it’s an upgrade from the Legend. My buddy swings a Legend and he finds great stuff. I personally would get the kid a Simplex or an Xterra and keep the Legend for myself. The other two machines are good back up units for you if he doesn’t get in to it, or loaners if someone wants to join you.

tnsharpshooter said:

Depends on what significant means.
Salt beach performance.
Try that Manticore with M8 coil on the small stuff. And compare with Legend with small coil..see what happens. Hmm

Any advantage is just that. An advantage. It may not be witnessed on every detecting scenario either.
Also.
I have already talked about Manticore’s ability to alert on some lower conductors sweeping down nail barrel (via using custom user ferrous limits settings). Try this with a Nox. Hmmm

I don’t make blanket statements.
Just share info.

Click to expand...

Whether it be the Legend on the beach, or the Nox down the barrel, the big question will be iron falsing and salt falsing. For example, it's not that the Nox isn't seeing that lower conductor down the barrel. Rather, it's just that the engineers didn't make the Nox's iron bias go that low to give a nonferrous signal in that scenario. Granted, Minelab did indeed open up the iron bias / ferrous limits on the Manticore, but at what falsing cost? Is that the reason so many Manticore users reported significant iron falsing compared to their 800?

metaladdict said:

Xp also with super fast recovery speed?

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The recovery speed is the interval between each "cycle". Each cycle is "Transmit>Receive>Process".

That cycle moves at almost the speed of light, and that speed isn't limited by the hardware. In other words, any detector can be made to have "unlimited" speed, by just changing one parameter in one line of code of the recovery speed program. So why don't they make detectors cycle even faster than they do now? Because if they did so, depth loss would be too high, audio clipping would occur, and target identification accuracy would suffer greatly due to insufficient information from the target.

SDA67 said:

Good morning, new member here and I need some insight on the next level of progression from the Nokta Legend.
I have only been detecting for about 4 months. My son is showing some interest in metal detecting with me and instead of of buying him a starter machine, one that he may not end up using as much as he thinks, I think I want to keep the Legend for him to learn on and buy myself a more advanced machine. Then, if he doesn’t end up liking the hobby, I have a solid back up machine.
So, given that the Legend is such a solid machine, what would be the next level detector to look at? Would it be going on to “all in” with the XP Deus 2 or the Manticore, or something just below like the Equinox 900?

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Some posters are saying things in this topic as if they are absolute facts when they don't own and have never used an Equinox model, Deus 2 or Manticore. Take what they say for what it is, which is pure speculation based on second or third hand information.

What level of mineralization does the ground you hunt on have? The Legend can tell you.
What targets are you hunting or would like to hunt?
Are you mostly wanting, more depth or better performance in thick iron or both?

If you answered moderate to high iron mineralization, deep coin sized targets and also "yes I need better performance distinguishing non-ferrous from ferrous targets in thick iron trash", then the Manticore or Deus 2 would be an upgrade.

If you answered "the ground I hunt in has mild mineralization, there is not a lot of iron trash in my area and I really am just learning how to detect in general" I would say, learn the Legend and I mean all of it, every land based search mode using the M1, M2 and M3 settings and also the prospecting mode and vary your sensitivity, recovery speed, tones and iron filter settings and especially your discrimination patterns with some exploration into hunting with iron accepted and see what the Legend does and teaches you. I am still in the middle of that process myself.

Like others, I don't see the Equinox 600/800/700 or 900 being an upgrade compared to the Legend.

Also like some others, I don't know if a Manticore or Deus 2 is really around $700 more detector than the Legend.

Personally, I think the Legend is the best deal out there for a high quality, high performing detector with a mid range price. I own two and often loan one to family members and new detector users so I can hunt beside them for a while until they get a handle on what the Legend is like.

I own and regularly use a Legend, Manticore and Deus 2. I owned a 900 for a while but sold it since I did not see any even minor performance improvements between it and the Legend. The Legend, Equinox 900, Manticore and Deus 2 are very different performing detectors from my experience. In the dirt I most often hunt in, with the Legend, Manticore and Deus 2 using 11" DD coils, the Manticore and Deus 2 are noticeably deeper than the Legend both for raw depth and for being able to identify those deeper targets. It's not a big difference but that 1 to 2" could make all the difference between hearing nothing, hearing iron (when the target is non-ferrous) or actually correctly identifying the deep target.

From knowing the history of the parks I hunt and from the targets I was hearing and actually digging with the Equinox 800, 900 and Legend, I had a suspicion that there might be some quality targets that I was missing because those detectors were calling them iron or just not hitting them. After getting the Manticore and Deus 2, my suspicions were verified.

Also, Garrett is about to release the Garrett Storm. I wouldn't make any decisions until the Storm is vetted by the public. It might be the next top of the heap simultaneous multi frequency detector and it might not be.

jmaclen said:

Some posters are saying things in this topic as if they are absolute facts when they don't own and have never used an Equinox model, Deus 2 or Manticore. Take what they say for what it is, which is pure speculation based on second or third hand information.

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Does someone have to own a 1971 Ford Pinto to know how fast it will go, how it handles, or its exploding gas tank issue? Simply because someone doesn't use a particular thing, doesn't mean they can't have knowledge about that thing.

I presented many points in this thread. Go ahead and list them all, while posting why you agree, or disagree to them. That would be helpful, instead of posting a blanketed and weak "Appeal to ownership" fallacy.

Diga said:

Does someone have to own a 1971 Ford Pinto to know how fast it will go, how it handles, or its exploding gas tank issue? Simply because someone doesn't use a particular thing, doesn't mean they can't have knowledge about that thing.

I presented many points in this thread. Go ahead and list them all, while posting why you agree, or disagree to them. That would be helpful, instead of posting a blanketed and weak "Appeal to ownership" fallacy.

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I only really know what I know (and don't know) about higher end VLF SMF detectors when I regularly use them. That's just me.

If you believe that what you are posting about detectors you have no experience with is the absolute truth go right ahead and post it.

Others that actually use the detectors may disagree with you.

jmaclen said:

I only really know what I know (and don't know) about higher end VLF SMF detectors when I regularly use them. That's just me.

If you believe that what you are posting about detectors you have no experience with is the absolute truth go right ahead and post it.

Others that actually use the detectors may disagree with you.

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I see.

So not only did you just double down on your appeal to ownership logical fallacy, but you won't even refute all those alleged "wrong" things I said.

Diga said:

I see.

So not only did you just double down on your appeal to ownership logical fallacy, but you won't even refute all those alleged "wrong" things I said.

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In post#17 you quoted from my first post in this topic. Anything that I disagree with you about is in that post. There is plenty that I agree with you about concerning the Legend included in that post also.