Myers Depot Metal Detectors

Just thinking out loud about VDI resolution

tnsharpshooter said:
I read through most of this thread.
Help may be on the way. All I will say.

Next,
Ever listen to an Equinox when sweeping targets?
How does it respond over target tonally?
And listen to DFX sweeping targets?
Fisher F75 series acts more like DFX not Equinox series.

The Equinox is giving more real time of what coil is seeing vs DFX.

Coil is passed over target conductivity level varies as coil is swept.

DFX is more flat looking ID wise and tonal sounding vs Equinox when targets are swept.

Looking at Deus 2, chances are I think it won’t be ( in its current form) the super desirable USA coin detector vs what we could see in the future. This doesn’t imply Deus 2 won’t find coins either. And update though could help tilt scales somewhat. Personally I don’t know if this is possible or if it is what else is compromised overall. This what I am referring to will become more apparent eventually. When actual more Usa detectorist get Deus 2 and one more thing happens.
Click to expand...

So the Equinox 1000 is coming? But Minelab is usually slow to release the product after an announcement...and there's been no announcement.

So we're looking at what...the Equinox 1000 shipping Christmas 2023? :D

Or maybe there's some major software update coming...
 
mh9162013 said:
So the Equinox 1000 is coming? But Minelab is usually slow to release the product after an announcement...and there's been no announcement.

So we're looking at what...the Equinox 1000 shipping Christmas 2023? :D

Or maybe there's some major software update coming...
Click to expand...

I have zero knowledge of a Equinox 1000 coming. Notta. Or even a CTX 4040. Notta
 
tnsharpshooter said:
I read through most of this thread.
Help may be on the way. All I will say.

Next,
Ever listen to an Equinox when sweeping targets?
How does it respond over target tonally?
And listen to DFX sweeping targets?
Fisher F75 series acts more like DFX not Equinox series.

The Equinox is giving more real time of what coil is seeing vs DFX.

Coil is passed over target conductivity level varies as coil is swept.

DFX is more flat looking ID wise and tonal sounding vs Equinox when targets are swept.

Looking at Deus 2, chances are I think it won’t be ( in its current form) the super desirable USA coin detector vs what we could see in the future. This doesn’t imply Deus 2 won’t find coins either. And update though could help tilt scales somewhat. Personally I don’t know if this is possible or if it is what else is compromised overall. This what I am referring to will become more apparent eventually. When actual more Usa detectorist get Deus 2 and one more thing happens.
Click to expand...

Now that makes sense. If I remember right, the DFX, in Best Data, transmits 3 frequencies and then picks the frequency it feels is the best response to be further analyzed by the software, and then passed on to the user through audio & display. I think the 2 frequency concept of the FBS is the same in that while the software may not process all 28 frequencies, the returning signal is processed and converted to 2 frequencies that are then sent to the software for processing. That is where the 2 frequencies of the FBS come from.

The newer technology and faster processors of today's detectors have the power to process true multiple returning signals and send that info to the software to be analyzed. Fewer VDIs are used. I still feel more VDIs would give a more stable & accurate ID, but it may slow the process down too much.
 
Maybe it is Apex 1000.
Or a Racer 3.
Or a F85.
Or an AT super maximum.
Or a Deus 3
Or a Tarsacci MDT 1000
Or a Equinox 900
Or a ORX 2
Or a Super FMF unit.
Or a Ultra Super FMF unit.
Or a Vanquish 840 unit.
 
Detector said:
Now that makes sense. If I remember right, the DFX, in Best Data, transmits 3 frequencies and then picks the frequency it feels is the best response to be further analyzed by the software, and then passed on to the user through audio & display. I think the 2 frequency concept of the FBS is the same in that while the software may not process all 28 frequencies, the returning signal is processed and converted to 2 frequencies that are then sent to the software for processing. That is where the 2 frequencies of the FBS come from.

The newer technology and faster processors of today's detectors have the power to process true multiple returning signals and send that info to the software to be analyzed. Fewer VDIs are used. I still feel more VDIs would give a more stable & accurate ID, but it may slow the process down too much.
Click to expand...

Faster processors aren't enough to dramatically improve performance. You also need the software to best analyze the signals the coil is picking up.

You keep harping on VDIs, but they're just ticks on a ruler. Increasing VDIs doesn't require practically any processing power. You could double the VDIs on the Equinox by simply telling the machine to multiple any current VDI by 2. So the real magic isn't in the VDIs, but the underlying tech that analyzes the information/data obtained from the soil/what's in the ground.
 
tnsharpshooter said:
Maybe it is Apex 1000.
Or a Racer 3.
Or a F85.
Or an AT super maximum.
Or a Deus 3
Or a Tarsacci MDT 1000
Or a Equinox 900
Or a ORX 2
Or a Super FMF unit.
Or a Ultra Super FMF unit.
Click to expand...

Nice try...

The cat's already outta the bag.
 
I think we're talking more about coin machines when we're looking for the very best information on a target, not relic machines. I see alot if posts about the deus 2 and I'm sure it's a great relic machine. But I highly doubt it's on the same level as a etrac when it comes to coin shooting deep old coins. Sure,you could take a deus 2 or a Deus 1 and chase all kinds of junk and eventually come up with a coin now and again. If that's your style of hunting more power to you, but don't try to convince anyone who knows the difference in real coin machines and try to put any XP machine on the same level as a etrac, it's not. Man, I keep reading the same misinformation from the same people.
 
mh9162013 said:
Faster processors aren't enough to dramatically improve performance. You also need the software to best analyze the signals the coil is picking up.

You keep harping on VDIs, but they're just ticks on a ruler. Increasing VDIs doesn't require practically any processing power. You could double the VDIs on the Equinox by simply telling the machine to multiple any current VDI by 2. So the real magic isn't in the VDIs, but the underlying tech that analyzes the information/data obtained from the soil/what's in the ground.
Click to expand...

Well.
Is the above true or false?
Both.

Getting the data to the user might be challenging. At least semi reliable to more reliable information. Then there is the question of what information exactly.
Maybe it ain’t the coil is not picking it up info or maybe it is.
So lots of places where improvements can be had.
Some manufacturers may not of even thought of what’s possible.
Or they have but can’t figure out how to extract.

Exciting times ahead.
 
tnsharpshooter said:
Well.
Is the above true or false?
Both.

Getting the data to the user might be challenging. At least semi reliable to more reliable information. Then there is the question of what information exactly.
Maybe it ain’t the coil is not picking it up info or maybe it is.
So lots of places where improvements can be had.
Some manufacturers may not of even thought of what’s possible.
Or they have but can’t figure out how to extract.

Exciting times ahead.
Click to expand...

Sounds like that's something for software to handle.
 
mh9162013 said:
Faster processors aren't enough to dramatically improve performance. You also need the software to best analyze the signals the coil is picking up.

You keep harping on VDIs, but they're just ticks on a ruler. Increasing VDIs doesn't require practically any processing power. You could double the VDIs on the Equinox by simply telling the machine to multiple any current VDI by 2. So the real magic isn't in the VDIs, but the underlying tech that analyzes the information/data obtained from the soil/what's in the ground.
Click to expand...

Common you know better than that. More ticks on a ruler equal a more accurate measurement. What is more accurate, a rule with 12 1" increments or a ruler with 192 1/64 increments?

What has improved? depth? NO. The new machines get no more depth than 20 year old detector technology. Target ID? NO, fewer VDIs mean more targets in the same VDI zones. Unmasking ability? YES. Faster processing power has increased recovery speed by a huge jump. So far all the videos I have seen have been about better target unmasking and nothing else. Prove me wrong!
 
You know what I think.
And the detector manufacturers won’t go here likely.
One might though.

What if a control head was built with extreme future capabilities built in.

Yeah a new coil might have to be bought in the future.
But where a person would buy software only.
And platform could withstand decades of use with software updates.

I wonder how far reaching (time wise) Xp has made inside design of Deus 2?
Right now Xp would be where I would put money in this dept.

Yeah small things like keypads could always be replaced. Lot cheaper than ponying up for whole new detector.

Think about this.
Xp got where they did really with 2 platforms. Deus and Xp goldmaxx. Shocking!!!
ORX May have contributed but it Deus platform really. Poorer person’s Deus.

There is no doubt a lot of brain storming has been done by Xp last 15 years.

And when Deus debuted and was talked about on this forum and others. Funny what folks were saying. Lot of them based their comments on a pic alone. Shame, shame!!
Cute little French thing said by one. Lol

I started preaching more and more about updatable detectors back when on detecting forums and the knives came out. Lol
Look around now.
Seems these folks had poor vision.
 
mh9162013 said:
Sounds like that's something for software to handle.
Click to expand...

Agreed. I believe with today's more powerful and faster processors, far more complex software can be used. Like how Bill Gates handled Windows. For us old timers, remember when Dosshell was the Windows of the 70's? As processors became more powerful and faster, a more robust and complex software was created. Windows 1.0


That has been my point. We have far more computing power and speed now than ever before, it is time it started getting used to our benefits for more than just uncovering masked targets. It won't happen until the consumer asks for it. So far the manufacturers get that consumers don't care so much about a great VDI system, but think of the possibilities. Finally the ability for a detector that can tell the difference between gold and aluminum. Tone is not going to do that.
 
Detector said:
Common you know better than that. More ticks on a ruler equal a more accurate measurement. What is more accurate, a rule with 12 1" increments or a ruler with 192 1/64 increments?

What has improved? depth? NO. The new machines get no more depth than 20 year old detector technology. Target ID? NO, fewer VDIs mean more targets in the same VDI zones. Unmasking ability? YES. Faster processing power has increased recovery speed by a huge jump. So far all the videos I have seen have been about better target unmasking and nothing else. Prove me wrong!
Click to expand...

The biggest improvements have been the development of simultaneous multi frequency technology in the Equinox, and it appears the Deus 2 and Legend that do a much better job of making more of the iron/salt responses coming from the ground itself less of a factor when detecting a target. Take as much of the ground as possible out of the processing of the return signal and the VDIs will be more accurate even on deeper non-ferrous targets of ALL conductivities and of varying sizes. The Deus 2 running at a high of 40kHz in wet salt sand and surf........and it is quiet......that is something that hasn't been done before and it is because of making the salt signal almost virtually non existent. Same for iron mineralization using these detectors. Making the ground more invisible also improves target separation and allows for faster recovery speed.

So, for me it is not about having 40, 50, 200 or 1000 VDI segments. The big improvement is about being able to assign the correct level of conductivity to the target no matter how deep it is according to the detector's setting and the coil's capabilities and in all soil/beach conditions. Hopefully, Deus 2 and the Legend will do better at more easily handling ferrous/non ferrous identification than the Equinox.
 
Last edited:
Detector said:
Agreed. I believe with today's more powerful and faster processors, far more complex software can be used. Like how Bill Gates handled Windows. For us old timers, remember when Dosshell was the Windows of the 70's? As processors became more powerful and faster, a more robust and complex software was created. Windows 1.0


That has been my point. We have far more computing power and speed now than ever before, it is time it started getting used to our benefits for more than just uncovering masked targets. It won't happen until the consumer asks for it. So far the manufacturers get that consumers don't care so much about a great VDI system, but think of the possibilities. Finally the ability for a detector that can tell the difference between gold and aluminum. Tone is not going to do that.
Click to expand...

The trick is developing the software. I'm willing to bet the bulk of Minelab's IP for their metal detectors is locked into their software, not hardware.

You keep acting like all a company needs to do is upgrade their hardware to give us a "great VDI system." But I'm 99% sure it's not that easy.
 
We don’t know what is possible in the future as far what a detector can discern.

And this discerning may only be say half right. In some circumstances this would be real good vs yesteryear models.

Find target and alert on target one challenge.
Then give info.
What info exactly.

We could see VLF detectors or some other tech move more in direction of shape of target and or size of target.

EMI challenges are being worked too.

Can you hear the wheels turning at XP, Minelab, Nokta Makro, etc ??

Wonder how many dead ends have been reached whereas if few more steps backwards would have been taken and then this new forward movement would have allowed even more forward progress?

I think Xp really right now haven’t even discovered full Deus 2 potential. But they have discovered enough to market.

Minelab likely did same thing with EQX, backtracking got us a few updates.
 
Detector said:
Common you know better than that. More ticks on a ruler equal a more accurate measurement. What is more accurate, a rule with 12 1" increments or a ruler with 192 1/64 increments?

What has improved? depth? NO. The new machines get no more depth than 20 year old detector technology. Target ID? NO, fewer VDIs mean more targets in the same VDI zones. Unmasking ability? YES. Faster processing power has increased recovery speed by a huge jump. So far all the videos I have seen have been about better target unmasking and nothing else. Prove me wrong!
Click to expand...

It depends on what your ruler is made out of.

And you're wrong about target ID not having improved over the years.

Myself and many others have experienced more accurate and stabe VDIs (especially at depth) with the help of newer technologies, such as SMF.
 
Does anyone here think EQX release help create Deus 2 as far as salt water/ beach capabilities? Or even release of Tarsacci MDT-8000?

I think I know the answer. Won’t say though. Got little inside info.

Think about this.
When Xp hatched Xp good max and Deus platforms. What VLF detectors back when using did coils ranked supreme in iron?
Imo there was nothing even close to to goldmaxx and deus coil size for coil size in ferrous ridden areas.
So Xp went it alone.

I think they did the same with Deus 2.
Yeah word has it Deus 2 was compared head to head on salt beach to other released VLF units.
I’ll let folks guess the outcome.
 
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