Nox 800 50 tones

bunkeru2k

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So I have spent the better part of 2 days trying to find this info specifically before I go and start blowing up settings and needing to reset. I have been using Park 1 and 2 with both set to 50 tones as I like hearing the tone change on a target which has helped me pinpoint and figure out what targets are ones I want to dig. What has been killing me is that across the entire range of non-ferrous is that it all sounds too similar to me on the lower end....say from 2 through 20 it kind of sounds similar. So my questions I guess are as follows:

1) Can you set a custom tone for each segment? Say I want to set 14 and 15 to a tone 1 and set 11, 17, 18 to tone 2, etc. I believe the answer to this is no....so to question 2

2) When you set tone breaks for something like all the coin shooting videos would do, does that tone range also affect the ranges for 50 tones? (I believe this is also no so on to 3

3) If I am reading everything right and you have only 1 tone break in the 50 tone, does it widen the tone range in each of those segments? Like if I set the first range to be say -9 all the way up to 20, would it make the tones much more distinct in that range?
 
You can't do that in 50 tones to my knowledge. Only in 5 tones can you make such adjustments. I have my pitch and pitch volumes set a certain way in 5 tones on my 800.
 
You can only set specific tone bins in 5 tones.

#3 is a good question. I've noticed you can adjust the tone break between t1 and t2 in 50 tones, but i have never messed with it to see what it does. I usually discriminate numbers under 10 out. If you are a beach hunter you probably wouldn't want to do that though.
 
3) If I am reading everything right and you have only 1 tone break in the 50 tone, does it widen the tone range in each of those segments? Like if I set the first range to be say -9 all the way up to 20, would it make the tones much more distinct in that range?

Yes, you’ve correctly self-answered your first two questions, so I’ll do my best at tackling #3. I do a lot of hunting in 50 tones, and did a good amount of experimentation with the settings to understand what they do and fill in the gaps where the manual was lacking:

Remember that you technically have two main adjustments you can make with 50 tones. Not only can you set the tone break between ferrous and non-ferrous, but you can also set the tone pitch gap.

Keep in mind that for 50 tones, the T1 range has a narrow 50 Hz low tone range, while T2 has a wider 500 Hz high tone range (page 48 of the manual). So the thing to realize is that however you set your tone break, you will be “smearing” the target tones across those set ranges. For example, lets say you stay “traditional” and set the tone break at 0 and below for ferrous low tones, while 1 through 40 are high tones. What you have in this case is 10 numbers across the 50 Hz low tone range (5 Hz difference between each “ferrous” tone) and 40 numbers across the 500 Hz high tone range (12.5 Hz between each “non-ferrous” tone). In other words, this set up creates greater differentiation between each number in the high tone range compared to low tone.

The next example is what you mentioned: setting the top of T1 much higher, such that 20 and below are ferrous low tones and 21 through 40 are high tones. Now you’ve got 30 numbers spread across the 50 Hz low tone range (1.7 Hz difference between each low tone number) and only 20 numbers across the 500 Hz high tone range (25 Hz difference between each high tone number). So, as you can see, this set up creates even greater differentiation between individual high tone numbers, while sacrificing tonal difference in the low tone range.

But something else is also happening as you change the tone break in 50 tones - you will be changing the actual tones you hear for a given target....drastically, with very high T1 tone breaks. If you compare a US silver dime using the settings outlined above, you will get a much higher tone using the lower T1 tone break, than with the high tone break. That’s because with the tone break set at 20, the US dime is now closer to the bottom of the high tone range instead of near the top, which generates a lower tone. The downside to that is the highest tones that really grab your attention are then only assigned to really high numbers like 36-40, which are usually junk numbers. And by default, you’re obviously also limiting the types of targets that generate a high tone when you shift T1 all the way up to 20, which may be fine if all you’re interested in is most US coins.

I have less experience playing around with the tone pitch gap - I set mine at the maximum because I like having a large difference between ferrous and non-ferrous tones with my set up. However, you could use a minimum tone pitch gap along with a high tone break, which might help make mid-range non-ferrous items like US nickels and gold still sound off with higher pitched tones. Just keep in mind, iron will sound relatively high pitched as well with a low pitch gap, and there will be little differentiation between iron and mid-conductors because of the narrow 50 Hz tone range being assigned to a wide target range.

Clear as mud?? ;)
 
Yes, you’ve correctly self-answered your first two questions, so I’ll do my best at tackling #3. I do a lot of hunting in 50 tones, and did a good amount of experimentation with the settings to understand what they do and fill in the gaps where the manual was lacking:

Remember that you technically have two main adjustments you can make with 50 tones. Not only can you set the tone break between ferrous and non-ferrous, but you can also set the tone pitch gap.

Keep in mind that for 50 tones, the T1 range has a narrow 50 Hz low tone range, while T2 has a wider 500 Hz high tone range (page 48 of the manual). So the thing to realize is that however you set your tone break, you will be “smearing” the target tones across those set ranges. For example, lets say you stay “traditional” and set the tone break at 0 and below for ferrous low tones, while 1 through 40 are high tones. What you have in this case is 10 numbers across the 50 Hz low tone range (5 Hz difference between each “ferrous” tone) and 40 numbers across the 500 Hz high tone range (12.5 Hz between each “non-ferrous” tone). In other words, this set up creates greater differentiation between each number in the high tone range compared to low tone.

The next example is what you mentioned: setting the top of T1 much higher, such that 20 and below are ferrous low tones and 21 through 40 are high tones. Now you’ve got 30 numbers spread across the 50 Hz low tone range (1.7 Hz difference between each low tone number) and only 20 numbers across the 500 Hz high tone range (25 Hz difference between each high tone number). So, as you can see, this set up creates even greater differentiation between individual high tone numbers, while sacrificing tonal difference in the low tone range.

But something else is also happening as you change the tone break in 50 tones - you will be changing the actual tones you hear for a given target....drastically, with very high T1 tone breaks. If you compare a US silver dime using the settings outlined above, you will get a much higher tone using the lower T1 tone break, than with the high tone break. That’s because with the tone break set at 20, the US dime is now closer to the bottom of the high tone range instead of near the top, which generates a lower tone. The downside to that is the highest tones that really grab your attention are then only assigned to really high numbers like 36-40, which are usually junk numbers. And by default, you’re obviously also limiting the types of targets that generate a high tone when you shift T1 all the way up to 20, which may be fine if all you’re interested in is most US coins.

I have less experience playing around with the tone pitch gap - I set mine at the maximum because I like having a large difference between ferrous and non-ferrous tones with my set up. However, you could use a minimum tone pitch gap along with a high tone break, which might help make mid-range non-ferrous items like US nickels and gold still sound off with higher pitched tones. Just keep in mind, iron will sound relatively high pitched as well with a low pitch gap, and there will be little differentiation between iron and mid-conductors because of the narrow 50 Hz tone range being assigned to a wide target range.

Clear as mud?? ;)

Thanks for your comments Ben, it gives me something else to try/think about. I have not played with 50 tones yet but will be trying in my test garden soon.
 
So I have spent the better part of 2 days trying to find this info specifically before I go and start blowing up settings and needing to reset. I have been using Park 1 and 2 with both set to 50 tones as I like hearing the tone change on a target which has helped me pinpoint and figure out what targets are ones I want to dig. What has been killing me is that across ........

What AirmetTango said is right on. Read page 48 and 50 of your manual. More importantly, get a range of test objects out and play with the 50 tone tone break and pitch settings and eventually you'll have an a-ha moment.
 
Fantastic info and exactly what I was looking for! I read that darn manual section at least 20 times and it just never made sense in my head until spelled out here. Ended up making a 5 tone setup like some of the coinshooter setups people have had listed out there which seemed to work fairly well. With the 50 tones I almost have to watch the numbers constantly, but now may experiment a bit with it to see if I can find a sweet spot for me with those 2 tone settings.
 
To get used to 50 tones you can also make a trashy park program with for instance, a little iron accepted like -3,-2, accept +8 to +14, accept +18 to +21 and accept +24 to +40 and then turn on 50 tones and get used to only half of the numbers or so and especially those numbers that you really need to dig for modern and older US coins and most 10K to 18K rings and silver jewelry and coins.
 
What AirmetTango said is right on. Read page 48 and 50 of your manual. More importantly, get a range of test objects out and play with the 50 tone tone break and pitch settings and eventually you'll have an a-ha moment.

I've gotten used to the standard set of 50 tones in Park2, mostly. The settings explained here are something I haven't messed with yet. Airmet's explanation gave me some understanding, but right now, I'm having an uh-huh moment. The a-ha will surely come another day. Thanks guys!
 
Fantastic info and exactly what I was looking for! I read that darn manual section at least 20 times and it just never made sense in my head until spelled out here. Ended up making a 5 tone setup like some of the coinshooter setups people have had listed out there which seemed to work fairly well. With the 50 tones I almost have to watch the numbers constantly, but now may experiment a bit with it to see if I can find a sweet spot for me with those 2 tone settings.

In my opinion, 50 tones is less about specific numbers/tone pairs and more about listening for good tonal characteristics based on what you're after.

This is from a previous post I wrote on the subject:

With 3 to 5 tones the ear can quickly learn to associate a specific pitch to a RANGE of conductivity. That doesn't mean the goal of 50 tones is to memorize even more, and more specific, conductivity-pitch pairs. Instead, it's a different way of listening. The general low-medium-high relationship between conductivity and pitch is still true, but the point of more audio information is to hear more audio characteristics. Ascending, descending, stable,narrow, round, long, tight, loose edges, quiet, loud, solid, separation, etc...

Trying to internalize dozens of pitches would be frustrating, and we all know that the same targets vary with any detector. Such a skill wouldn't transfer to other detectors, or even the same detector with different audio settings. A skill that IS transferable is the ability to assess signals based on RELATIVE changes in conductivity.
 
Fantastic info and exactly what I was looking for! I read that darn manual section at least 20 times and it just never made sense in my head until spelled out here. Ended up making a 5 tone setup like some of the coinshooter setups people have had listed out there which seemed to work fairly well. With the 50 tones I almost have to watch the numbers constantly, but now may experiment a bit with it to see if I can find a sweet spot for me with those 2 tone settings.

I use 5 tones in my trashed out parks and I found this setting to be very helpful.
I set 11-13 as a high tone and loud, I love to find nickels, (and nickel area gold), of any kind and they usually come in pretty solid as a 12 or 13 on my Nox in my soil and I also have a million hours on an F70 which can change the nickel section to high tones like dimes.
I have found a ton of nickels using this and some nickel area gold, too, using this handy feature so I use the Nox in a similar manner.
Not always but most of the time nickels are a 12-13, 13 mostly and solid...I have dug a few at 11, too, and very deep ones in mineralized dirt or near iron have the possibility to up-average right out of this range.
What I also deal with are about a million tabs of all kinds where they usually start coming in at 14-15, the bane of my existence.
At 14 I keep the volume high but lower the tone way down, 14-17 range or so, maybe 18 but much higher you could be into Indian territory and I would hate to miss those.
Luckily, in my red clay mineralized SE. dirt Indians usually up-average to 21-23 but still...

With the very noticeable tone break between 13 and 14 I still find plenty of nickels but almost every signal that jumps from 13-14 or to 15 to higher have mostly been tabs for me since I bought this thing and avoiding them is my goal.
Some tabs come in solid in the nickel range and don't jump at all but most do, luckily.
When scanning I listen for that tone jump from high to low as it goes from 13 to the next few numbers, easy peasy and no need to even look at the screen I just dismiss them and move on fast and efficient like.
I used to dig tons of these signals making sure at first, now I have the confidence if I get a 12 or 13 and it jumps higher to 14 or more of it I hear that tone jump up and down it ain't a nickel.
Other junk can jump from 12-13 to even higher.

Of course you never know, good targets can jump like this under some circumstances too but so far for me nothing good has ever come up that did.
This helps me avoid a ton of time of useless digging and let's me concentrate on looking for better, more stable signals that actually could be good targets.
This works, for me, anyway.

Recently I was hunting my local trashed out park in an area I had searched a million times for years, using the standard coil and this 5 tone setup.
I hit a spot with lots of jumping, trash all around like can slaw or foil in the lower numbers and if I remember at least one of those 13 to higher jumps which I assume was a tab.
Despite all that I noticed a solid high tone and a 12 that stayed in the screen if I moved the coil slightly side to side in very short movements.
Turned 90 degrees and did it again, jumping all around but in one tiny spot with short side to side sweeps I got that solid high tone and that 12 number to stay.
Dug the thing, got happy....the solid 12 was a small 14k gold ring.
At least 5 pieces of trash surrounded this thing close but the Nox, even with the standard coil, saw it and my high tone nickel setting made me notice it.
I don't watch the screen as I hunt, I listen first and if I hear something interesting, solid and repeating then I look so the short solid high tone worked.
Below the ring is all the other mostly solid nickel area targets I dug on this same hunt.
Notice there are 4 actual nickels in there, also.

Ya gotta sift through the trash to find the treasure and you need to set your detector to let you know in the most efficient way possible that you found some.
 

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I settled on a very very similar setup to yours with 5 tones and based on Park 2. The only thing I typically will change on it is recovery speed if I hit a really ugly section.

So one more question since everyone gave me some seriously good info....

On occasion I will get a fairly repeatable faint tone that displays no VDI. Would very deep or small signals do this or is this more likely to just be iron?
 
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