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Feds don't own all areas that ban us??

George (MN)

Elite Member
Joined
May 4, 2007
Messages
512
I was shocked to recently read that 30 families own 52% of all land in the US. But in some states, Feds/states claim areas ownership of 95% of land. Seems to indicate more than 100% of area is Fed/state or owned by individuals.

This might possibly indicate that states/Feds are claiming ownership of many areas they really don't own, but might be making deals that they will watch a property for a billionaire, if gov't gets to pretend they are owner, rather than just caretakers, and sets policy. Maximum protection=no trespassing.

If one could get permission from one of these property owners, one could be arrested by a Fed that doesn't own but watches over private property.

Perhaps a good example of this could be Mississippi River National Park. They have painted over the houses, schools, parks & businesses that are within the 1/2 to 1 mile distance each side they want to control near Mississippi River. So far in St. Paul, the Ford plant has been destroyed, also Riverview School. They're saying the new Summit Brewing plant near the Mississippi might have to move. Best wishes, all.
 
They may be basing the 52% on ownership of land not considering that which is owned by the Feds. Or 52% of all privately held lands.
 
A wise man who is the resident FMDF expert on permissions who I'm sure will chime in shortly offers good advice in these situations. Go at night :laughing:
 
George, Re.: what you've written on "ownership" versus "oversight". Like Doug & duggap say: It's confusing. Why can't someone just look on assessor's parcel maps (or the newfangled oNx-hunt type app) , and simply see who owns the land ?

But cutting to the chase, and getting beyond this conspiratorial ownership vs oversight thing: What does it matter ? :?: The underlying notion of your post is this:

" .... one could be arrested by a Fed that doesn't own but watches over private property..."

Do you *really* think that any Fed. dude is waiting our in a trenchcoat, hiding behind trees, waiting to come out and bust the chops of md'rs ? NO MATTER THE ACTUAL LEGAL STATUS OF ownership vs oversight issues ?

Or put it this way: Can you cite any examples of Fed's arresting a guy for md'ing ? If you can , I bet it will for someone snooping around obvious off-limits historic sensitive monuments. Or someone who can't take a warning. Heck, I bet any passing fed. guy would say " Cool. What's the best thing you've ever found ? How deep does it go ?", etc....

Me thinks you're over-thinking the fears of this. And triggered by the incident in "Public School Ballfields...." Post #71. I notice you never answered the followup I posted to you there. If an isolated scram (heck, that wasn't even a scram), sends you into this much of a tizzy, then I think you just need to grow a thicker skin. And recognize a fluke for what it is: A fluke. Just like driving: Someone might flip you off because they didn't like your lane change. Ok, so what ? You ignore them and move on, eh ?
 
Wiki

Federal owned land.

iu
 
Wiki

Federal owned land.

iu

This map is not totally correct. The big red spot in Oklahoma was at one time owned by the Osage tribe, now a lot of it is own by non tribal members. The tribe still have all the minerals rights on all the old reservation. The Feds never did own the land the Osages bought it from the Cherokees when they move to Oklahoma.
Here in Oklahoma a lot of the land is own by different tribes and there members.
Members who own land can give you permission to hunt it, tribal land you have to go through the tribes government.
 
Wiki

Federal owned land.

iu

Ok, and what's the point ? Not all fed. land is off-limits to md'ing. Some (like BLM for instance) have express allowance. And as for the ARPA stipulation, .... fine then, don't find coins over 50 yrs. old. How good is your math ? When's the last time you got carded by a guy in a trench coat, who was armed with a calculator, riffling through the contents of your apron.

No need to overthink this. Just go. :roll:
 
BLM, states, and other designations.

You can hunt on certain types of designated land. But some areas have been held for the highest bidder. Your analogy of the Mississippi River is more a Archeological area. Those areas and preserves are protected for good reason. I have one simple rule, if it doesnt support my detecting hobby, I dont support it. Again a good club, can get you access to a lot of property. Owners permission is best, I dont like feeling like a criminal every time I pull out my detector.
 
You can hunt on certain types of designated land...

Or , in context of various types/levels of public land: It need not be "designated" (if, by that , you meant specifically allowed). If it is simply silent on the subject, mentioning it neither way, then presto: Not dis-allowed.

.... Those areas and preserves are protected for good reason.....

Historical preserves ? Maybe. Because, sure if it's an obvious off-limits sensitive historical monument (Shiloh, Ghettysburg, etc...), then sure, who can argue with that. But if it's a nature preserve, then no: I do not see how md'ing harms spotted owls, 3-toed salamanders, swamp grass, etc...

.... Again a good club, can get you access to a lot of property. ....

Be aware: There's a lot of well-meaning clubs that have mistaken notions. About on-limits vs off-limits. I can think of some humorous examples :wow:

.... I dont like feeling like a criminal every time I pull out my detector.

Nor do I. Well, it depends on how you define md'ing. If you agree with some interpretations of laws (standing on one foot and squinting real hard), and asking enough archies for their feelings, then sure: I might feel like a criminal. But since I do not define md'ing in that fashion, and since I do not ask archies silly questions, then no: I don't feel like a criminal .
 
Archys are pretty cool guys.

My first thought was they were jerks cause there was places I couldn't hunt. Once you understand why some of these places are off limits it make perfect sense.

Also I communicate with several Archys and they are very nice and share information freely. They can give you a view of a area that you never knew existed.

Archys are not a problem, but some how they get painted that way. I get butthurt cause I can not hunt the local college. It was a land grant to begin with. But my lil probe and me are not going to hurt the oldest dirt in town.

There has been some pretty old and neat finds along the Mississippi River. I can see why they may not want you to dig there and I am not from Mississippi. But real archeology starts at 3 feet. You have to get rid of all the green waste and trash. Not that there isnt not stuff exposed on or near the surface.

But as more and more people get into this wonderful past time there will be more and more rules and restrictions. Seems like it comes and goes.
 
My first thought was they were jerks cause there was places I couldn't hunt. Once you understand why some of these places are off limits it make perfect sense......

Ha, well yes and no. Yes in that ....... Yes, you can hardly blame them for saying "no". Even when the blanket "no" extends to places that are NOT sensitive historical monuments. I mean, none of us would object to forbidding yahoos from digging up Shiloh, Bodie, etc.... right ?

And so some of us md'rs might ask: "What does that have to do with a cellar hole in the middle of nowhere ?" :?: Or "angling for modern fumble fingers losses @ a beach", etc... Right ? But in their mind's eyes: Once they start splitting hairs and saying "yes here , but no there", it becomes a giant baby-sitting game. :crybaby: Hence much easier to say "no to all". Can you blame them ?

But that being the case, then it's pretty hard to "feel bad" as an md'r, if I'm hitting that cellar hole in the "middle of nowhere" . Or that beach for coins/jewelry that no artifact value (in-so-far as their objectives go).

.... Also I communicate with several Archys and they are very nice and share information freely. They can give you a view of a area that you never knew existed. ....

I too pump information out of archies, for my own agendas. BUT BE CAREFUL : Perhaps you've found a cool archie. Perhaps yours isn't the "purist" mindset. But there are many in their ranks, that the moment they find out that you're into md'ing, they will bristle. :nono: They will clam up, and you will be labeled a pot-hunter and looter. EVEN WHEN YOU"RE NOT HUNTING OFF-LIMITS SITES ! So be very careful . When I talk to them, I approach them as a fellow historian (I docent at several museums). And I don't mention my md'ing pursuits. Yeah, yeah, fox-guarding the hen-house :pirate2:

..... I get butthurt cause I can not hunt the local college.....

Curious where you got the information that those college ground were a no-go . Is that a rule somewhere there, that says "no md'ing" ?

.... But as more and more people get into this wonderful past time there will be more and more rules and restrictions.....

Only in-so-far as those "more and more people" make themselves a giant bullseye, in need of "more and more rules and restrictions". If they stay off those very very few people's radars-of-attention, then presto, not as much rules and restrictions.
 
Where did you read the 52% number? I'm skeptical of that.


Yes, I'm skeptical, too. I don't think the news source was trying to lie, could have just been a typo. It was a fairly lengthy article on msn.com/ Can't recall who they got it from. It was about forest service roads going on private land and if the private owners had a right to restrict access.
 
Ok, and what's the point ? Not all fed. land is off-limits to md'ing. Some (like BLM for instance) have express allowance. And as for the ARPA stipulation, .... fine then, don't find coins over 50 yrs. old. How good is your math ? When's the last time you got carded by a guy in a trench coat, who was armed with a calculator, riffling through the contents of your apron.

No need to overthink this. Just go. :roll:


Detectorist was on BLM land in Nevada and dug up a silver dime. He got something like a $700-$800 fine & and was told he should not even dig up a pull tab as it night be of interest to archaeologists in the future.

The detectorist said where he was people had dumped off fridges and washers, and believed they were not fined. I joked maybe they're trying to set up Fridges and Washers National Park.
 
Since I have a big picture of me holding my F75 is a dead givaway.

The reason a beach or some place like a park is off limits could be due to a night hawker who leaves holes and trash. I doubt archys have any interest in most places that are off limits. I would say its your city council that really rules the roost. Still plenty of land out there if you can get permission.

Why the local college fields are off limits is beyond me. I do know ball fields are off limits by the parks department, and they do maintain the college ball fields.

I dont pump archys for info. I have my own research I do. But yes I enjoy their finds. I dont own a backhoe or a screen. They get it all and you can even see a map of what was found where. GPR also shows old foundations and filled in cellar holes.

I dont fault anyone who gets a permission I dont have. Too much ground for one person to hunt period. If a man just did curbs he would do well. For every no I see, I see a 100 or more yes's.

How many folks have looked at a historical geological survey, or a list of mines for their state? Each state has its own rules and so does each city.

We are not criminals. Have fun, find stuff. If I can help I will. I love going to a park full of people with my detector over my shoulder. I get to find stuff for folks, and play with all the kids.

I find cell phones and knives and a lot of jewelry. I goto the desert and find a lot of beer cans and bullets lol. But I have a spot where I found a bunch of insulators Im going to go hunt when I finish the head job on my truck.
 
Detectorist was on BLM land in Nevada and dug up a silver dime. He got something like a $700-$800 fine & and was told he should not even dig up a pull tab ....

George, a story like this , is akin to a story that , yes, you might read about a motorist getting pulled over by an over zealous cop. Roughed up, fined, jailed, confiscated ,and ticketed, for nothing but a tail light out. I even had a newspaper clipping of a guy who got a ticket for eating a hamburger while driving ! (cop called it "distracted driving" or some such nonsense).

Ok, when you read such stories, do you now cease to drive ? Of course not. Because you recognize them for what they are: Flukes.


I grant you that a silver dime (which, of necessity, is over 50 yrs. old) would fall afoul of ARPA. But in the entire state of Nevada (where your example is from), how many people do you think care less or know about such minutia ? How many purist archies or purist rangers are there "milling about" that would throw-the-book at the (gasp) guy who found a silver dime ? 1 in 100,000 ? 1 in 500,000 ? And what's your odds of bumping into him ?

As long as you're not wearing neon yellow and waltzing over beach blankets at an archie convention, I think your odds of having such a ticket are slim to none.

The "ticket" incident you cite, is akin to shark-attack story mentality: If you read of a single shark attack on the entire continent, guess what you're fear is the next time you swim @ the beach ? Never mind that 100,000 people swam that year w/o incident.
 
.....Why the local college fields are off limits is beyond me......

But still waiting to know: Why do you think they are off-limits , in the first place ? :?: Is there a rule or law you've seen that says "no md'ing" ? :?:
 
I'm wondering how the guy got nabbed with a dime. Strip search, grabbed by the ankles and shaken upside down, run thru a metal detector. A dime :laughing:, maybe he had it taped to his forehead.
 
George, a story like this , is akin to a story that , yes, you might read about a motorist getting pulled over by an over zealous cop. Roughed up, fined, jailed, confiscated ,and ticketed, for nothing but a tail light out. I even had a newspaper clipping of a guy who got a ticket for eating a hamburger while driving ! (cop called it "distracted driving" or some such nonsense).

Ok, when you read such stories, do you now cease to drive ? Of course not. Because you recognize them for what they are: Flukes.


I grant you that a silver dime (which, of necessity, is over 50 yrs. old) would fall afoul of ARPA. But in the entire state of Nevada (where your example is from), how many people do you think care less or know about such minutia ? How many purist archies or purist rangers are there "milling about" that would throw-the-book at the (gasp) guy who found a silver dime ? 1 in 100,000 ? 1 in 500,000 ? And what's your odds of bumping into him ?

As long as you're not wearing neon yellow and waltzing over beach blankets at an archie convention, I think your odds of having such a ticket are slim to none.

The "ticket" incident you cite, is akin to shark-attack story mentality: If you read of a single shark attack on the entire continent, guess what you're fear is the next time you swim @ the beach ? Never mind that 100,000 people swam that year w/o incident.

I only detect on land because I'm afraid of fish that bite or jab people with their fins, slippery rocks, rusty metal and poor visibility in water. Our lake winds are not enough to make old coins possible, they get deep fast. Any city of size has park boards urging more renovation. My suburb has over 50,000 people and over 50 parks. Oldest 1963. No swimming at lake parks, but I don't swim. Best wishes, all.
 
I only detect on land because I'm afraid of fish that bite or jab people with their fins, slippery rocks, rusty metal and poor visibility in water. Our lake winds are not enough to make old coins possible, they get deep fast. Any city of size has park boards urging more renovation. My suburb has over 50,000 people and over 50 parks. Oldest 1963. No swimming at lake parks, but I don't swim. Best wishes, all.



I only hunt land too...but I'm looking forward to beach and water hunting this summer....especially at a virgin resort (I know it's virgin because it's been in the family for a long time, and was a resort for many, many years before then)
 
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