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going from the E-trac to the Nox 800...

jmaclen, thanks for the discussion. I'm not wanting to argue, I'm more interested in clarifying. It's interesting how 2 people can read the same thing and draw different conclusions. For example,

1. "The Equinox was intended to directly compete with the Garrett AT Series and the XP Deus. That was Minelab's intention. Their R&D department came up with a brand new technology from scratch. It was so good that it had unintended consequences especially when Minelab marketing flatly stated "Equinox obsoletes all single frequency VLF detectors" That statement included several of Minelab's own currently produced single frequency detectors in 2018, which they were still marketing as viable detectors and which cost around the same price as the Equinox."

I read that as,
Minelab already had BBS, FBS and FBS2 so their goal was to "obsolete" single freq. at a much lower price point than FBS, not necessarily better. As Minelab states, "Multi-IQ copes with saltwater and beach conditions almost as well as BBS/FBS, however BBS/FBS still have an advantage for finding high conductive silver coins in all conditions."

2. "When Minelab started developing our EQUINOX detector, we looked very closely at all of the current market offerings (including our own) to reassess what detectorists were really after in a new coin & treasure detector. A clear short list of desirable features quickly emerged – and no real surprises here – waterproof, lightweight, low-cost, wireless audio, and of course, improved performance from new technology. This came from not only our own observations, but also customers, field testers, dealers and the metal detecting forums that many detectorists contribute to."

What stands out to me is,
waterproof, lightweight, low cost (that really catches my eye), wireless audio and "improved performance". The latter could mean just about anything you wanted it to mean, and they don't specify. I suppose they are referring to what I just quoted and the faster processor, which do have "performance" advantages, but what it DOESN"T say is that it out performs FBS in raw depth, target ID and other filtering. If it did I would think they should would say that.....

Instead what we get from Minelabs website is,
"By developing a new technology, as well as a new detector ‘from scratch’, we will be providing both multi-frequency and selectable single frequencies in a lightweight platform, at a low cost, with a significantly faster recovery speed that is comparable to or better than competing products."

Also from Minelab,
" Another option would have been to create a lower cost waterproof FBS detector, but that also had its challenges with FBS being ‘power hungry’, needing heavier batteries, heavier coils, etc., and relatively high cost compared to the more recent advances..."

When my mind combines the above quote with this one.....

"Multi-IQ copes with saltwater and beach conditions almost as well as BBS/FBS, however BBS/FBS still have an advantage for finding high conductive silver coins in all conditions."

....the conclusion I reach is Minelab's design goal for Multi-IQ was to meet certain "marketing" desires such as, multi freq., lightweight, faster processor(better separation etc.), wireless audio at a LOWER PRICE POINT(they emphasize that a lot) than FBS. And again by adding the two quotes above, it appears to me that Multi-IQ doesn't have the raw depth/filtering and target ID of FBS. And that has also been my observation in the field.

I guess you buy what suits your needs.
 
I would say that if a person had as many hours on an Equinox as an E-trac they might feel different. Personally if I ever come across an E-Trac at the right price I will buy one BUT I like the idea that someone mention here someplace about marrying both Technologies to get the best of both worlds. Then again if Minelab has better ideas like a golf cart sized machine that will detect, pinpoint, dig and put in my pouch all silver and gold items along with any cool relics I think I could be happy with that too. Just kidding That would be just way too easy. Kinda like using an Apex in the water Huh?:yes:
 
You seemed to overlook the last part of this sentence


2. "When Minelab started developing our EQUINOX detector, we looked very closely at all of the current market offerings (including our own) to reassess what detectorists were really after in a new coin & treasure detector. A clear short list of desirable features quickly emerged – and no real surprises here – waterproof, lightweight, low-cost, wireless audio, and of course, improved performance from new technology. This came from not only our own observations, but also customers, field testers, dealers and the metal detecting forums that many detectorists contribute to."

Especially the improved performance part. Not my words .... Minelabs

But then again I would use and e-trac too
 
Just because a brand comes out with a new release doesn't mean they're prior machines wont still work. And it doesn't mean it's superior to anything they took off the market. Explorer vs etrac is a good example, explorer SE was phased out for marketing reasons,imo the explorer is still better than the etrac.
Xp came out with the x35 coil, and to be honest I think the lf coils are still as good.At least for a coin hunter like myself.
What minelab says doesn't account for the whole detecting world, just the opinion of a few r&d guys and a few testers that are average Joe's ,nothing more.
Guys look to hard into this, try to find a reasons why yours is better than mine. Goes the whole way back to grade school.:laughing:
 
Minelab's own marketing statements are based on how they can keep from competing with their own detector sales and from trying to keep their older technology viable.

Minelab recently released their consumer division metal detector sales results for the last 6 months (July 1, 2020 to February 1, 2021) which continues a trend from the year before. These sales results do not include specific gold prospecting detector sales for consumer and commercial use. They reported record sales and sold between 8 and 12 million US dollars worth of consumer detectors per month which is up from 2 to 3 million US dollars per month in previous years 2017 to July, 2019. That record increase is coming from the sale of Equinox and Vanquish detectors according to Minelab.

The reason for the sales being high on the Equinox and Vanquish is not because they are so much better than other detectors, they cost less than better detectors. FBS detectors are still being used by lots of people.
 
Just one more wrote:
"jmaclen, thanks for the discussion. I'm not wanting to argue, I'm more interested in clarifying. It's interesting how 2 people can read the same thing and draw different conclusions."

_______________________________________________________

I know that I see what I want to see even when I think I am being objective.

Detecting is really important to me and my level of sanity and quality of life. I just love to go out and spend 2 to 4 hours coin and jewelry hunting or spend a couple of 8 hour or more days gold prospecting with a detector in beautiful, rugged country that is at altitudes of 6,000 to 12,000 ft. That is what I call living.

I need a detector that is lightweight, extremely sensitive to small targets whether they are small gold nuggets or partially masked targets or targets on edge, very fast target recovery speed and target separation, very good in moderate to high mineralization since it was optimized to handle that kind of ground with multi frequencies, wireless, easy to operate and adjust on the fly, has excellent target ID throughout its depth of detection, and lets me know very quickly (when I have it setup right) whether I have a ferrous or non-ferrous target under my coil.

So, swinging 5 to 7 pounds of detector for more than an hour at high altitudes, no matter who makes it or how much it costs, is no fun in my detecting world.

The Equinox is the detector I have been waiting for during most of my detecting life. I am totally okay with it just being as you put it, a Malibu.
I am also totally okay with you swinging a Cadillac detector.

I am not here to judge what you are using or you for using it. I was just trying to help and support a new Equinox owner adjust to a detector that is very different from the one they are used to. This Friendly Forum can get very territorial really fast. It is still a good place to have a discussion.

I hope Max gets back on here and gives us a report in the future when he will have had plenty of time on the E-Trac and Equinox and can give us his first-hand opinions of both.
 
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ran the Nox in factory preset park1 today instaed of the A.Sabish coin program to see if that is my issue... I went low and slow the same speed I always detect at...we were doing a few older Mill houses. I walked a straight line with no good repeatable tones, my hunting partner swept the same area with his CTX a while later and BAM! a large silver ring at 6", then a few feet later BAM a III cent nickel...I missed both these targets while listening to 5 different tones none of them in the "HIGH" range... I miss that silver scream the E-trac gave me when over silver. I got a lot of learning to do with this machine.
 
ran the Nox in factory preset park1 today instaed of the A.Sabish coin program to see if that is my issue... I went low and slow the same speed I always detect at...we were doing a few older Mill houses. I walked a straight line with no good repeatable tones, my hunting partner swept the same area with his CTX a while later and BAM! a large silver ring at 6", then a few feet later BAM a III cent nickel...I missed both these targets while listening to 5 different tones none of them in the "HIGH" range... I miss that silver scream the E-trac gave me when over silver. I got a lot of learning to do with this machine.


It takes a little while to get the hang of the Equinox. Its a totally different animal than the Etrac so if you're expecting it to act like an Etrac, you'll be disappointed. As you've figured out by now, you're not going to get the same high pitched silver warble tones, even if running in 50 tones. The Nox speaks its own language. Still easy to spot good high tones once you start to get the hang of it, but nothing like the sounds you're used to hearing from your Etrac. I don't know what Andy's coin program is, but I'd try setting up some targets in a test garden and figure out what works best for you. Someone else's settings might work great for them in their soil, but that never carries over to be universal for everyone. It may be a good starting point, but thats about it. I like to run Park 2 in 5 tones, even for coin hunting. Seems to give me a little better separation than Park 1 and really tags deep nickels loud and clear. You might find that something completely different works better for you. Do you have your tone pitch maxed out for targets in the silver range? What do you have your recovery speed set at? I've found that setting RS too high really clips the tones and makes it more difficult to spot good targets. The Equinox is still plenty fast with a medium recovery speed setting of 4 or 5... and you'll get more pronounced tones with a little more depth.
 
ran the Nox in factory preset park1 today instaed of the A.Sabish coin program to see if that is my issue... I went low and slow the same speed I always detect at...we were doing a few older Mill houses. I walked a straight line with no good repeatable tones, my hunting partner swept the same area with his CTX a while later and BAM! a large silver ring at 6", then a few feet later BAM a III cent nickel...I missed both these targets while listening to 5 different tones none of them in the "HIGH" range... I miss that silver scream the E-trac gave me when over silver. I got a lot of learning to do with this machine.

Multi or single freq? Ground balanced? Iron bias setting? Recovery speed?

I run a custom 5 tones bin. I set up to sounds as close to my etrac and ctx as possible. One key thing about the NOX is some of the best targets i have recovered were not rock solid repeatable tones. But if you ever get a high tone glimpse work that spot hard and if you can see occasional ID's and tones you like and your in multi,,,, always dig! Rattle is right the NOX is a total different animal than the fbs machines but if and when it clicks for you, look out! I only pull out my etrac and ctx if i am in a area where i am digging things like electronic components or once i got into a spot were there were shaved piston heads that were solid 26-28 on nox, but were 9 and 10-46-47 on my etrac and ctx. That is the only reason i have not sold my fbs machines ,,, i do find spots that i need them to get around digging some specific trash.. But if you get into an older spots where mostly iron is the problem, then in my areas i won't pick up anything but my nox.
 
ran the Nox in factory preset park1 today instaed of the A.Sabish coin program to see if that is my issue... I went low and slow the same speed I always detect at...we were doing a few older Mill houses. I walked a straight line with no good repeatable tones, my hunting partner swept the same area with his CTX a while later and BAM! a large silver ring at 6", then a few feet later BAM a III cent nickel...I missed both these targets while listening to 5 different tones none of them in the "HIGH" range... I miss that silver scream the E-trac gave me when over silver. I got a lot of learning to do with this machine.

Rattlehead and Trashfinder are very experienced Equinox users so try to listen to what they say.

The only things I noticed in your short experience above are your mention of no repeatable signals, your slow swing rate and just a check to make sure you were in default Park 1 with no other adjustments.

Even in Park 1 default with 5 tones, recovery speed=5, F2 iron bias=6, sensitivity on 20 and the iron range -9 to 0 rejected, you may still hear a ton of short signals that you may not have noticed before with your other detectors. The Equinox is a very high gain detector even when its in its most basic default mode=Park 1. If you go to Park 2 and use 5 tones you will hear even more short signals. If you press the horseshoe button and accept the iron range of targets you may hear a lot more signals. The Equinox will really detect more targets in the ground than most people expect, even experienced detector users. It takes some getting used to. There is no way your Equinox should have missed a 6" silver ring. It should have given a target ID in the mid 20s to low 30s and had a medium high to very high pitched repeatable tone if you were in default Park 1 and you got your coil over it. When I am cherry picking for silver in trash, I check every medium high to high pitched tone and any target that gives a target ID of 24 and above no matter how short its tone is. If I can get it to become a repeatable signal in two swing directions, I am digging. Sometimes that means my actual swing length is 2 to 3 inches and pretty fast.

On page 51 of the online manual which is actually really good, Minelab recommends a swing rate of 2 to 3 seconds for a complete swing to the right and back to the left with recovery speed on 4 or 5. Compared to a CTX 3030 swing or some of my pulse induction detectors, that is pretty fast. Running the recovery speed any higher may abbreviate the tones on coin sized objects.

Conversely, swinging too slow and/or lowering the recovery speed down to 1 or 2 may cause masking of targets on coin sized objects especially in moderate levels of trash.

In a sparse target area with deep targets, lowering the recovery speed, raising sensitivity above 20 and swinging normally is totally fine if your Equinox remains stable.

The Equinox can be swung pretty fast, similar to a Deus. The only time I really slow down is when I am gold prospecting or working an area with tons of iron trash with the 6" coil. I either have to really slow down for tiny gold or shorten my swing length for extreme trash.

Resetting individual search profile modes is easy. Just go to the search profile mode you want to hunt in like Park 1, hold down the detect mode button for 5 seconds and wait until you see SP (search profile) on the screen then release the button and Park 1 is completely reset to factory defaults.

good luck
 
Thanks everyone for the honest feedback on the detectors. I have the Nox 800 but if I ever come across an E-Trac or Safari at a good price and I am not tapped out at the time, I will buy one. I think there will always be a use for a machine like that. BUT in the few short hunts I have had with the Nox I really like it. And that is coming from someone who hasn't touched a detector in almost 10 years and those were White's machines. Besides.....For me if I have two machines and one works better in my hands it doesn't mean that one detector is better than the other, it just means one is better for ME than the other.
 
thanks for all the help and replies guys... in the past two days now I have tried just about everything... even my hunting partner took my nox today in park 1 and picked out about 5 coins I missed. I tried slow swing speed , normal swing speed... factory settings and a few different custom settings... the one that worked the best basically ran the volume on 0 for anything that wasn't a coin... even with a recovery of 6-8 it was hard to get a good repeatable singnal on anything deeper than 4 ". all the targets I dug today that were keepers (wheats and clad) were under 4"...all the good repeatable tones I got deeper were trash (bottle tops, pull tabs, and other brass/copper junk)
I may just sell or trade this one off and call it a day... I'm just a coinshooter, this machine is so much more and that's whats killing me. my brain doesnt work that fast.
 
If you want deeper coins then set your recovery to 3 or less. Slow your swing down and you should be in business. But it could be that your site doesn't have deeper coins. LOWER RECOVERY SPEED = DEPTH. I would guess faster is better for shallow and trashy areas. I am sure others can explain it better than I can
 
If you want deeper coins then set your recovery to 3 or less. Slow your swing down and you should be in business. But it could be that your site doesn't have deeper coins. LOWER RECOVERY SPEED = DEPTH. I would guess faster is better for shallow and trashy areas. I am sure others can explain it better than I can

Exactly.
 
You seemed to overlook the last part of this sentence


2. "When Minelab started developing our EQUINOX detector, we looked very closely at all of the current market offerings (including our own) to reassess what detectorists were really after in a new coin & treasure detector. A clear short list of desirable features quickly emerged – and no real surprises here – waterproof, lightweight, low-cost, wireless audio, and of course, improved performance from new technology. This came from not only our own observations, but also customers, field testers, dealers and the metal detecting forums that many detectorists contribute to."

Especially the improved performance part. Not my words .... Minelabs

But then again I would use and e-trac too

Just for fun, write down what your idea of "improved performance" means, exactly as it relates to the Nox. Then find what statements Minelab has issued that agree with your thoughts. Please let us know the results.
 
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Just one more wrote:
"jmaclen, thanks for the discussion. I'm not wanting to argue, I'm more interested in clarifying. It's interesting how 2 people can read the same thing and draw different conclusions."

_______________________________________________________

I know that I see what I want to see even when I think I am being objective.

Detecting is really important to me and my level of sanity and quality of life. I just love to go out and spend 2 to 4 hours coin and jewelry hunting or spend a couple of 8 hour or more days gold prospecting with a detector in beautiful, rugged country that is at altitudes of 6,000 to 12,000 ft. That is what I call living.

I need a detector that is lightweight, extremely sensitive to small targets whether they are small gold nuggets or partially masked targets or targets on edge, very fast target recovery speed and target separation, very good in moderate to high mineralization since it was optimized to handle that kind of ground with multi frequencies, wireless, easy to operate and adjust on the fly, has excellent target ID throughout its depth of detection, and lets me know very quickly (when I have it setup right) whether I have a ferrous or non-ferrous target under my coil.

So, swinging 5 to 7 pounds of detector for more than an hour at high altitudes, no matter who makes it or how much it costs, is no fun in my detecting world.

The Equinox is the detector I have been waiting for during most of my detecting life. I am totally okay with it just being as you put it, a Malibu.
I am also totally okay with you swinging a Cadillac detector.

I am not here to judge what you are using or you for using it. I was just trying to help and support a new Equinox owner adjust to a detector that is very different from the one they are used to. This Friendly Forum can get very territorial really fast. It is still a good place to have a discussion.

I hope Max gets back on here and gives us a report in the future when he will have had plenty of time on the E-Trac and Equinox and can give us his first-hand opinions of both.


I'm 58 and the Etrac will be getting too heavy at some point. There is always a harness I guess. I was born and raised in a small farm town in Kansas. I moved to the city decades ago(maybe not a good thing). I agree that those hours spent outdoors detecting, getting some dirt on you, will easily replace MANY hours of potential psychotherapy.

Multi-IQ or a variant will eventually surpass FBS. Hopefully soon. I would love a lightweight, waterproof Etrac.
 
There is no doubt in my mind that the E-trac is and will be for a very long time a great machine. I also realize that Minelab took some shortcuts to cut costs on the Equinox. Some I wish they would have just did right and charged more but I also understand that cost is a big deal. My whole point isn't so much that the E-trac isn't comparable. That being said, To get a machine for THAT price that will even come close to rivaling the E-Trac and according to Minelab's own website Will ....."Detect targets in iron trash better" and detect low conductors better. Plus it is waterproof. Does that mean it's deeper than the E-Trac? I doubt it. I think they will both do well in the right hands.

Their site also says that the MULTI IQ is more of a fusion between FBS and VFLEX technologies. Something NEW that has the potential to grow into something even bigger in the future. Obviously from their own website they indicate their old technologies are at their limits and the Multi IQ gives them a new platform to build on.

The thing I liked about how they did all of it was by not only looking at other companies detectors but their own. If they had only looked at other companies then they would have cheated us all even more than the cheap shaft and thin coil ears that come with the Equinox.

BUT by looking at their own technology and seeing it was a time for a change was great for anyone of us that can buy one of their machines now or in the future. I will go out on a limb and say that from what I have read (I know that is very subjective). Multi IQ will bring us machines in the future that will leave both the E-Trac AND the Equinox in the dust.

That's what I got from the website.

But with all that being said. If you can't get a coil over a target. The machine you have won't make much difference
 
I'm 58 and the Etrac will be getting too heavy at some point. There is always a harness I guess. I was born and raised in a small farm town in Kansas. I moved to the city decades ago(maybe not a good thing). I agree that those hours spent outdoors detecting, getting some dirt on you, will easily replace MANY hours of potential psychotherapy.

Multi-IQ or a variant will eventually surpass FBS. Hopefully soon. I would love a lightweight, waterproof Etrac.

I'm 55 and I used to swing a V3i and MXT so I understand about the weight. I was hoping for something with 3-D imaging at a good price so us old guys don't have to dig so much junk.. :lol:
 
Also from Minelab,
" Another option would have been to create a lower cost waterproof FBS detector, but that also had its challenges with FBS being ‘power hungry’, needing heavier batteries, heavier coils, etc., and relatively high cost compared to the more recent advances..."

When my mind combines the above quote with this one.....

"Multi-IQ copes with saltwater and beach conditions almost as well as BBS/FBS, however BBS/FBS still have an advantage for finding high conductive silver coins in all conditions."

....the conclusion I reach is Minelab's design goal for Multi-IQ was to meet certain "marketing" desires such as, multi freq., lightweight, faster processor(better separation etc.), wireless audio at a LOWER PRICE POINT(they emphasize that a lot) than FBS. And again by adding the two quotes above, it appears to me that Multi-IQ doesn't have the raw depth/filtering and target ID of FBS. And that has also been my observation in the field.

Multi-IQ or a variant will eventually surpass FBS. Hopefully soon. I would love a lightweight, waterproof Etrac.

In your detecting area your experience bears out what you continue to repeat and experience and believe: FBS and the E-Trac in particular have better raw depth/filtering, target ID and the ability to detect silver/high conductors than Multi-IQ.

One of the above quotes clearly stated that trying to lighten up FBS/FBS2 detectors both in weight and in price was considered as an option but was ultimately rejected............. I really believe that Minelab marketing was telling the truth with that statement. Why didn't they want to pursue this option?

Minelab receive reports from all over the detecting world including from areas with disgusting amounts of magnetite and maghemite mineralization.

In my world FBS and the E-Trac along with the CTX 3030 and FBS2 do not have better raw depth/filtering, target ID and the ability to detect silver/high conductors than Multi-IQ throughout their depth of detection. I don't expect you to believe that fact or me since that is not your experience.

However, the marketing blurb we have been quoting from was written during the release of the Equinox in late 2017. I wonder if Minelab Marketing would stick by those words today or if they might change some of their late 2017 pre-release statements. There have been several software updates and improvements since then along with many reports from Equinox/CTX/Etrac joint owners that do not alway support your assumptions that what you are experiencing is the absolute truth. You are by no means the only person who believes as you do, by the way so I am not doubting you or them for one moment. That is your reality.

I am a long-time member of a metal detecting club here in Denver that has 97 members. I know of only two that still own a CTX 3030 and they have been trying to sell them for awhile. No one still owns their E-Tracs, Safaris or Explorers and there were several members who at one time did. This is not an indication of FBS/FBS2 not being suitable for our mineralized soil conditions out here. They did better for depth than any other detector besides a pulse induction detector and their IDs were very good down to 6" or so. All single frequency detectors out here start losing any form of accuracy at 4" or less. However, FBS/FBS2 recovery speed, target separation and sensitivity to shallow, very small targets of any conductivity were not nearly as good as several single frequency detectors prior to the release of the Equinox. Plus, the ergonomics of the E-Trac and CTX3030 could not compete with some of the lighter/faster but admittedly shallower detecting detectors. The Equinox offered these FBS/FBS2 owners a viable alternative. Most of those former FBS/FBS2 owners moved on to the Equinox. A few had some major issues getting used to the Nox but most managed to get through those adjustments. Two who were also Deus users just stuck with the Deus as their main detector and sold their Minelab VLFs including their Equinox. They kept their Minelab pulse induction detectors for raw depth.

Why did this FBS/FBS2 sell-off happen out here? It wasn't hype or misguided "got to have the newest technology".......This club has plenty of excellent detectorists along with two world class relic hunters who are also representatives for multi-line dealers. One has their own longstanding weekly radio/internet podcast show and both now use the Equinox and Deus for their primary land and freshwater detectors. They were former CTX owners. Multi-IQ simply outperformed FBS/FBS2 detectors in the soil conditions out here and it was not even close. I personally helped most of the other new Equinox users make the transition and they have never looked back.

Having forum members from all over North America on Friendly is what makes it a great forum. However, our detecting targets, ground conditions and terrain make offering definitive statements about which detector or detector technology is better than another, very subjective at best.

I do enjoy hearing about everyone's experiences and getting to share mine.
 
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@jmaclen

Yes, soil condition vary greatly around the country and a detector that works wonders in Arizona, may seem sub par in Iowa. We need to keep that in mind.

CTX3030 is FBS2. I don't believe it's as good on silver coins as the Etrac(FBS1). I have seen too many silver hound Etrac users "upgrade" to the CTX only to have their silver coin count drop to a point that they wanted their Etrac back.

I have no idea how FBS 1 or 2 would compare to Multi-IQ on anything other than coins, as that's what my friends and I almost always hunt. Would the Etrac make a good relic hunter? My guess would be the Nox would win that.

I think FBS has the edge on coins and silver(especially deep silver) in somewhat clean ground, and Multi-IQ has the edge for relics and coins in heavy trash and/or iron. Probably wouldn't hurt to have both machines.

Here's an interesting side note that just came to mind. I have one of the older Etrac's that was made in Ireland, before Minelab moved production to Malaysia several years ago. Some of the Nox guys I hunt with, "SWEAR" my Etrac is super hot. They think it has better electronics and higher quality control tolerances than Malaysia made Etracs. I have no idea if that is true or not, but if true, maybe I'm experiencing a different level of performance than many other FBS/FBS2 users, potentially skewing my viewpoint.
 
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