Just a question

Wom 27

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I was reading about Navy Day. A celebration two months after the end of the war oct 27, 1945. Warships including the Missouri,up the Hudson. Hundreds of planes. Millions of people! What a party! Over a million people were in Central Park for speeches.
I was curious. Can you detect the park? There’s old footage of that day and of course when I see all those people lined on the Hudson and in the park, all I see is all the targets that were left behind !
 
I think the real question is, How safe would you be in Central Park sticking out ?

I would MD it with all licences and permits with a signed letters from the Mayor and Gov and bring 50 friends to watch who is watching you.

Please be very careful if you go.

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Yes the police will arrest you, take your stuff and you are sent to Rikers Island to await to appear before a judge and that may take a few days. ...

For detecting in Central park in New York ?

A mere "scram" isn't what happens ? Instead it is imminent jail, court, judges, etc.... ? Ok, I'll bite : Got an example (link) of this befalling an md'r there ? :?:
 
For detecting in Central park in New York ?



A mere "scram" isn't what happens ? Instead it is imminent jail, court, judges, etc.... ? Ok, I'll bite : Got an example (link) of this befalling an md'r there ? :?:
I don't have a link to what I saw.

NYC is crime central. The permit is free to MD NYC but that is open to be interrupted by the parks dept, the Police and the judge you will see a few days later.
Now if you want to mug or sell drugs in the park you can.

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I don't have a link to what I saw.....

You "saw" what ? You saw someone get arrested and go to Riker's Island and stand before a judge , for md'ing ? :?: What did you "see" ?

I'm going to venture a guess that the moment anyone tosses out a fear such-as-this, that the next person picks it up as "imminent and certain" and that "people have been arrested", blah blah blah. Yet whenever we go to look into these claims, no one can ever cite such an incident.

The only times any such stories of "arrest" and "jail" and "judges" are truly occurring (if they ever did), is: Someone night-sneaking obvious historic sensitive monuments. Or someone being obstinate that can't take a warning, etc....

If you can show me an example of these horrors befalling someone for md'ing an innocuous urban turfed park, I'm all ears. But as is usual, we will only hear the sound of crickets. I'm not saying to "throw caution to the wind". And I'm not saying that if you put this "pressing question" in front of enough NYC park workers, that .... sure, you can ALWAYS find someone to tell you and I "no". What I am questioning here is the doom and gloom (jail, arrests, confiscations, etc....) that so-easily get tossed out there.

Believe me, I think the police in NYC have bigger fish to fry :roll:
 
You "saw" what ? You saw someone get arrested and go to Riker's Island and stand before a judge , for md'ing ? :?: What did you "see" ?



I'm going to venture a guess that the moment anyone tosses out a fear such-as-this, that the next person picks it up as "imminent and certain" and that "people have been arrested", blah blah blah. Yet whenever we go to look into these claims, no one can ever cite such an incident.



The only times any such stories of "arrest" and "jail" and "judges" are truly occurring (if they ever did), is: Someone night-sneaking obvious historic sensitive monuments. Or someone being obstinate that can't take a warning, etc....



If you can show me an example of these horrors befalling someone for md'ing an innocuous urban turfed park, I'm all ears. But as is usual, we will only hear the sound of crickets. I'm not saying to "throw caution to the wind". And I'm not saying that if you put this "pressing question" in front of enough NYC park workers, that .... sure, you can ALWAYS find someone to tell you and I "no". What I am questioning here is the doom and gloom (jail, arrests, confiscations, etc....) that so-easily get tossed out there.



Believe me, I think the police in NYC have bigger fish to fry :roll:
Well they go to a holding pen before Rikers or Manhattan.

I agree with you. It's not worth it for me. I got other places more to my MD taste then Central Park.



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For detecting in Central park in New York ?

A mere "scram" isn't what happens ? Instead it is imminent jail, court, judges, etc.... ? Ok, I'll bite : Got an example (link) of this befalling an md'r there ? :?:

Normally I agree with you, but NYC is a different animal (heck, their motto is "You love NY" and they have that big copper statue in the harbor, the Statue of Obedience).

NYC has very specific rules:

https://www.nycgovparks.org/permits/metal-detector


Look specifically at the "Permit Conditions", especially number 9.

In addition, Central Park isn't listed as a "permitted park", which means that it's a prohibited park.
 
.... Look specifically at the "Permit Conditions", especially number 9......

pryan67, I wasn't disputing the "no" that someone could fetch or find, if they dug deep enough into boiler plate minutia . I was questioning the "jail" and "judges" and so-forth , that so easily get tossed out there as "imminent repercussions".

And as far as the NYC central park being the singular muni park there that's "off-limits" : I have a sneaking suspicion of how that boiler plate minutia came to be. Care to take a guess ?
 
pryan67, I wasn't disputing the "no" that someone could fetch or find, if they dug deep enough into boiler plate minutia . I was questioning the "jail" and "judges" and so-forth , that so easily get tossed out there as "imminent repercussions".

And as far as the NYC central park being the singular muni park there that's "off-limits" : I have a sneaking suspicion of how that boiler plate minutia came to be. Care to take a guess ?

It's not the ONLY park forbidden I'm sure...but then again I don't know all the park names in NYC.

As for how it came to be, I'm sure that it's due to safety...or not interfering with the drug dealing that goes on there (after all, unlicensed pharmacists have rights too) or the murders (I mean retro-active family planning), or muggings (err...I meant to say freelance socialists). It certainly had nothing to do with people asking permission :)


Officially it's because they don't allow any "invasive techniques" due to the "delicate and extensive irrigation system".
 
It's not the ONLY park forbidden I'm sure...but then again I don't know all the park names in NYC.

As for how it came to be, I'm sure that it's due to safety...or not interfering with the drug dealing that goes on there (after all, unlicensed pharmacists have rights too) or the murders (I mean retro-active family planning), or muggings (err...I meant to say freelance socialists). It certainly had nothing to do with people asking permission :)


Officially it's because they don't allow any "invasive techniques" due to the "delicate and extensive irrigation system".

thanx for taking a stab at my question.

So do tell : Since when are laws/rules enacted to "keep the drug dealers safe" ? Are you serious that md'ing was made off limits, so as to "not interfere with the illegal drug sales and muggings", etc.... ? Seriously ? Then why not make jogging and bird-watching off-limits there too ? Wouldn't they be at risk of interrupting drug sales, or getting mugged as well ? :?:

Thus ...seriously .... I assume you're joking , right ?

As for "delicate and invasive", I challenge you or anyone here to do this : Waltz into any city hall, in any city, across the entire USA : And ask the person at the parks dept desk : "Hi. Can I disturb the delicate/extensive irrigation system with invasive techniques ? " Then sit back and bask in their answer.

I believe you will find that it's not simply NYC's central park that can attribute such a "no" to that answer the "pressing question". There's not a single park in the entire USA that doesn't have boiler plate verbiage that disallows "disturb" and "alter" and "deface". Yet as you can see, there's no shortage of md'rs who (gasp) md in public parks.

Thus yes, I have a sneaking suspicion that people there went "swatting hornet's nests" at some time in the past decades. Someone fetches a "no" (or a "scram") and promptly puts out the word on social media. Before long, ... yup ... you can never put it to rest. And the moment anyone ever TRIES to put it to rest, guess what tactic they will use ? Yup : Ask a desk-bound bureaucrat, and presto, it just feeds on itself. A sort of "self-fulfilling vicious loop". Eh ? :mad:
 
For example, if "invasive techniques" is the "go-to answer" to justify a "no" you (or some law justification) received, then try this : Pick ANY park in NYC that DOESN'T have a 'no md'ing' rule, like Central park supposedly does. Ok, now go into city hall park's dept and ask the clerk : "Hi, can I please employ invasive techniques and 'dig' in such & such park ?". I'll bet you dollars to donuts you'll get a "no". Yet .... oddly ... you can md there, and no one cares. Right ?

So what is the moral of the story ? Simple : Sometimes : "No one cares UNTIL you ask" :roll:
 
thanx for taking a stab at my question.

So do tell : Since when are laws/rules enacted to "keep the drug dealers safe" ? Are you serious that md'ing was made off limits, so as to "not interfere with the illegal drug sales and muggings", etc.... ? Seriously ? Then why not make jogging and bird-watching off-limits there too ? Wouldn't they be at risk of interrupting drug sales, or getting mugged as well ? :?:

Thus ...seriously .... I assume you're joking , right ?

As for "delicate and invasive", I challenge you or anyone here to do this : Waltz into any city hall, in any city, across the entire USA : And ask the person at the parks dept desk : "Hi. Can I disturb the delicate/extensive irrigation system with invasive techniques ? " Then sit back and bask in their answer.

I believe you will find that it's not simply NYC's central park that can attribute such a "no" to that answer the "pressing question". There's not a single park in the entire USA that doesn't have boiler plate verbiage that disallows "disturb" and "alter" and "deface". Yet as you can see, there's no shortage of md'rs who (gasp) md in public parks.

Thus yes, I have a sneaking suspicion that people there went "swatting hornet's nests" at some time in the past decades. Someone fetches a "no" (or a "scram") and promptly puts out the word on social media. Before long, ... yup ... you can never put it to rest. And the moment anyone ever TRIES to put it to rest, guess what tactic they will use ? Yup : Ask a desk-bound bureaucrat, and presto, it just feeds on itself. A sort of "self-fulfilling vicious loop". Eh ? :mad:


Do you believe that a city or town has the authority to prohibit metal detecting in specific areas such as Central Park (and in the past, Prospect Park, although now it looks like it's permitted 2 specific days a week)? If not, then it's a moot point.

If SO, then the fact of the matter is that NYC has prohibited it in Central Park, and as such, if someone WERE to do so, they'd likely be told to leave, and potentially given a ticket or potentially get arrested, just like with any other activity that someone participates in that is illegal.
 
Do you believe that a city or town has the authority to prohibit metal detecting in specific areas such as Central Park ...

Yes. I totally agree that any city can create any law or rule for their parks, as they-see-fit. That's not what's in question here. The question is:

1) Are people being arrested, and going to Rikers Island, for md'ing there ? and

2) How did such rules come into being, in the first place ?

As for #2 : Oh sure, the "obligatory" answer will be "no d/t holes". Or "no d/t "invasive techniques" and "delicate engineering" . Sure. :roll: But the BIGGER question is: What put it on their plate, as a pressing matter, in the first place, for a decision such as those ? And why not simply ALL the parks then ? (they all have "extensive irrigation" after all, right ? blah blah)

.... and potentially given a ticket or potentially get arrested, ...

Which brings me back to my original question : Does anyone know of someone/anyone being given a ticket or "arrested", for md'ing in Central Park NY ? :?:
 
These guys are trying


I've seen that video before. A Couple of things to say about that :

1) Once there is truly (the operative word is "truly") a rule, then sure, you/I have no choice but to fight it , like they were.

2) But ironically, it's pressure like that, to get an express "yes", that probably brought about the very "no" they are fighting in the first place :roll: . Ie.: I'll bet you that well-meaning sincere md'rs, well-before these guys, went asking "Can I?" type questions in the distant past. Or perhaps someone got a stink-eye or a scram, so he went "seeking clarification", thus leading to an answer to this 'pressing question'

3) And I must note the use of the operative word "truly" . Because, let's face it : There are parks where perhaps some minutia existed (that was dreamed up so-long ago that you'd be hard-pressed to find any park worker that even knows about it). And parks where someone fetched a "no" in the past. Yet truth be told, md'ing is common place and you don't find anyone to care-less or say "boo" to you. In THOSE cases, then ironically, it's pressure like this , that simply does the following :

4) To bring yourself front & center of attention to every cotton-picking park worker and cop, who is now appraised of this "pressing situation". Then sure as heck, guess what happens when that city person passes the park and sees an md'r ? He remembers the earlier fuss and thinks "aha ! There's one of *them* !". And starts booting people.

So it can be a vicious circle of self-fulfillment. See ? But sure, I don't doubt that if it's truly (there's that operative word) a rule and truly enforced (ie.: anyone cares), then sure, perhaps you have no choice. But since we admittedly "dig", I think those persons will have an uphill battle. Because let's face it, what is the immediate knee-jerk connotation of md'ing ? HOLES, of course. So perhaps the city people being petitioned might wise up, after a demonstration like this, and think "Gee, do we really want these yahoos in our other parks either ??". And this could come back to bite them in-the-b#tt. I've seen this happen before, where the only outcome is to make it all-the-more-extensive, and all the more front and center, and sometimes guys end up wishing they simply left good enough alone :(
 
Yes. I totally agree that any city can create any law or rule for their parks, as they-see-fit. That's not what's in question here. The question is:

1) Are people being arrested, and going to Rikers Island, for md'ing there ? and

I'm not sure. Are you going to be in NYC any time soon? You could give it a shot :)

2) How did such rules come into being, in the first place ?

As for #2 : Oh sure, the "obligatory" answer will be "no d/t holes". Or "no d/t "invasive techniques" and "delicate engineering" . Sure. :roll: But the BIGGER question is: What put it on their plate, as a pressing matter, in the first place, for a decision such as those ? And why not simply ALL the parks then ? (they all have "extensive irrigation" after all, right ? blah blah)

It's NYC...that's all the "reason" needed.

If someone asked about detecting in parks in NYC, then why did the overlords there choose ONLY to ban it in certain parks? Surely they'd have extended that ban to everywhere, right?
Which brings me back to my original question : Does anyone know of someone/anyone being given a ticket or "arrested", for md'ing in Central Park NY ? :?:
 
... If someone asked about detecting in parks in NYC, then why did the overlords there choose ONLY to ban it in certain parks? Surely they'd have extended that ban to everywhere, right?

I'll bet you that if you gave me a few hours there in NYC city hall park's dept, that I could single-handedly get all the other parks put off limits as well . You just have to ask with the right combination of wording ... "Lest you be mincing words, and not forthcoming with the full implications of your question".

I could go ask "Hello, can I please dig holes in the park ?". And when they say "no", I say "Gee, that's funny, I saw so & so digging in the park the other day. Tsk Tsk , durned those md'rs". Or I could say "Gee, I see, this verbiage that forbids harvest and removal of park features. So is it ok if I take cultural heritage objects please ?" And then sit back and bask in their answer. Then alert all the other md'rs that "such & such parks are off-limits", so we can all start a petition drive to get this clarified some more, eh ?
 
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