Fisher Impulse AQ detector update

Rick, I am no electronic engineer myself but from my limited understanding that sounds like exactly how the tdi works to me. Now I am sure that there is more to it in the Aq, perhaps using a microcontroller functioning as an oscope to plot the responses? Not sure. If I am not mistaken what you are trying to convey is that the discriminate function is nearly infallible and no small iron will be dug due to its proper functioning? Just trying to understand here.

Like the TDI, the AQ in discriminate is using two samples to determine high or low tone/mute. Unlike the TDI, there is no “hole” where the ground balance breaks. In the TDI, any target whose time constant is near the GB setting has greatly reduced signal strength - leading to complaints of “invisible nuggets” when looking for nuggets and accounting for the mediocre depth when using offset GB to ID high conductors like silver coins while excluding most iron.

I never said the iron ID is infallible. My own limited experience with it at beaches (San Diego and Drøbak in Norway) showed the ID to provide a useful level of discrimination between ferrous and other targets. Infallible - no. Badly rusted hairpins fooled it occasionally as did bits of wire. In those cases, raising the coil to bring the target to the limits of detection caused it to break up convincingly. Steel crown caps are a complex target and many detectors struggle with them - they can fool the AQ also on occasion.

I would only use discrimination on a beach with the AQ if ferrous trash was a major issue on that particular beach. The signal from good targets in all metal is plenty solid and you can often ID iron, especially elongated stuff just fine in AM by “Mapping” the target nd listening to the response in one direction vs the other.

When comparing to the TDI, the AQ runs happily in all metal on almost any beach, no matter the mineralization - The TDI with GB (and therefore some discrimination via two tone) is crippled for depth and I suspect no one runs it GB on at the beach.

Alexandre has “tickled” the system to extend the “first sample” spread so that gold jewelry has a “big window” to come in as a good target. This is unique and even If I understood how he has done it, I wouldn’t be allowed to say.

Here is what he wrote himself on the subject on one of the forums. I will post it now in a separate post.

Here in Alexandre’s own words as posted on one of the forums. Notice that he makes it clear that all of the analysis is analogue not digital. Digital is for the future when the “Revolution” comes.

Foreword:
For reasons of technological confidentiality, it is obvious that I could not discuss certain technical details. I can only share my knowledge in a relative way in order to give a comprehensive understanding satisfactory to the reader. So I'm going to do a little popular science oriented to "PIs".

All metal detectors based on an impulse principle depend mathematically on the ‘exponential decay’. This exponential decay is multiple, it is a series of exponentials nested in each other.(Ground effect + target + etc). Each exponential decay corresponds to a time constant.
Each target has its unique time constant. I mean by target, rings, gold nuggets, ground effect ...

Target size is indeed an issue when looking at this for the first time.
But once the size of the targets is removed from the equation (yes, this is easily doable) the time constants are homogeneous and identifiable without drifts.

Analogue analysis is not enough to deal with this kind of problem, digital processing is essential.
However, analogue analysis can be greatly improved to meet certain research expectations without losing too much sensitivity. This is what is done in the IMPULSE AQ and has never been done before.

The IMPULSE AQ is one of the first models in a range of PIs, these future models will be more and more upscale. I'm not talking about gadgets here, but technology. This detector will however already be classified among the high end of the market for beachcomber. The IMPULSE AQ has a purely analogue analysis.

Although this analysis is analogue, it differs greatly from the other models.
This analysis has been improved and it compensates for the majority of the time constant identification problems of gold jewellery.

The IMPULSE AQ is not a coin shooter, it is only intended to detect gold jewellery and this on all types of sand saturated with sea water.

Although some coins or silver rings have long time constants, not all of them will be rejected in "Mute" mode. But as mentioned above, this is not a coin shooter, so that is not our goal.

People who want to detect coins and objects that are not gold can find on the market a multitude of metal detectors, examples Equinox 800, BBS etc ...

These prospectors will then be confronted with prospectors who will have the IMPULSE AQ and will lose 20 to 30 cm on a 2 gr ring in 18K gold in the best case.
In the worst case, they will not even be able to detect a large gold ring on volcanic sand.
This is another of the characteristics of the IMPULSE AQ, this model is provided with a specific mode which makes it possible to detect in volcanic sand saturated with sea water with a reduced loss of sensitivity.

The IMPULSE AQ cannot however be used to search for gold nuggets, other models are provided for this, they are more sensitive and do not need to compensate for the conductivity of seawater.
These systems are designed differently…
I cannot say more about the various technologies under development at this time.

The IMPULSE AQ has the following modes:

ALL METAL
TONE
MUTE
VOLCANIC SAND


The discrimination by analogue analysis of the time constants of the IMPULSE AQ allows it to place almost all of the gold jewellery in "high pitch"

Here is an example of a time constant from smallest to largest:
10k  14K  18K  22K  24K
0.3 gr -> 30 gr

All jewellery below 22K whatever the weight will be detected with a minimum loss of sensitivity (10%)
22K jewellery will have a greater loss of sensitivity depending on their weight (20%).
For 24K jewellery, some will be detected in low pitch depending on their weight.

But in all circumstances, the sensitivity in MUTE / TONE / or VOLCANIC SAND mode is extremely superior to all VLF, and BBS on the market. (from simple to double)

In ALL METAL mode, there is of course no analysis of time constants so, no loss of any kind.

Iron is detected in all-metal mode by its characteristic double beep (provided the sound is at the limit of detection). This double beep is also present in Tone mode.

The IMPULSE AQ has many other advantages that competitors do not have.

It was once said in the forums that it was impossible to descend below 10µs of pulse delay on the sand saturated with sea water. This figure is of course to be taken lightly, because It is not difficult to design a PI with a short pulse delay but it is difficult to design it with a strong coil current!

The IMPULSE AQ has a powerful coil current and it is now placed at 7µs of pulse delay, which gives it a increased sensitivity on all types of jewellery sizes.

There has been a lot of work at this level to decrease the influence of the conductivity of the salt, maintain a very high stability and a small pulse delay.

For all these years of research, the IMPULSE AQ has been a tremendous development platform for my future technologies, already completed for the gold nuggets market.

IF you want the best single source of PI operation explanation with specific reference to the TDI, this is the best I have found, it’s by Reg Sniff and is a few years old

http://web.archive.org/web/20090201...ter.com/articles/UnderstandingPIdetector.html

Neat article, I have not seen that one yet but I have read inside the metal detector and have built a few pi machines. My understanding is still of a very limited nature.

lytle78 said:

The IMPULSE AQ is not a coin shooter, it is only intended to detect gold jewellery and this on all types of sand saturated with sea water.

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Why would you post this? I saw the pictures of that special beach and all the coins it found... ridiculous

I have watched the video's... it finds all the things other detectors find... enough...


That video of the Nox and AQ first target looked like small iron, second target was a coin can't remember the 3rd, 4th was a gold ring...

I could teach that guy how to recover a target because he needs it... was painful to watch.

Cfmct said:

Why would you post this? I saw the pictures of that special beach and all the coins it found... ridiculous

I have watched the video's... it finds all the things other detectors find... enough...

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See, I was thinking this same thing, the videos that I have seen show it finding small bits of iron, it was posted previously that bottle tops can give it issue ect. Sounds more and more like the tdi to me. It is also no secret that the designer borrowed heavily from Eric fosters designs. It was noted that the machine eliminates the pi hole. Is it anything more than an Eric foster machine with more than two ground balance channels?

beachrumbum said:

See, I was thinking this same thing, the videos that I have seen show it finding small bits of iron, it was posted previously that bottle tops can give it issue ect. Sounds more and more like the tdi to me. It is also no secret that the designer borrowed heavily from Eric fosters designs. It was noted that the machine eliminates the pi hole. Is it anything more than an Eric foster machine with more than two ground balance channels?

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Its a selling point... it justifies their asking price.. my opinion of course.. its why I haven't swallowed the koolaid some have... it looks no deeper than PI's I have ran and it finds the same type of targets..

You are a tough audience - I predict you will avoid the premiere - At your cost.

Or not - crow will be on the menu - just whose menu will feature it is not yet decided.

Patience, Butterfly.

Alexandre is no fool - if he had labored for years to bring forth a warmed over TDI - Tom Walsh, big boss at FTP would have never opened his notoriously tight purse to pay the Euroteam big bucks for this project..

But again - crow will be eaten - the only question is by you or me. I’m good with that proposition.

If you win, I’m a pretty good cook - if you loose - I look forward to your version of Corvus a la American.

One more thing. Folks ask questions others try to answer them, then on some forums, like this one it becomes like too many hens in one small henhouse - peck, peck, peck.

Folks refer to videos where they saw something they didn’t like. No link to where the video is, no time stamp as to what point in the video they saw what they didn’t like or believe’

Horse pucky. If you have a reference, cite it properly, otherwise it is just fluff,

If you saw something, tell us where - exactly where or I will assume it is just BS.

You are the moderator - in PM’s you come across all reasonable - is all this public challenge just to drive traffic to your forum? If so.....I am not at all sure I want to play.

I have worked hours to post the most carefully thought out ideas about the AQ and how it works. The reception - “well i saw something on some video somewhere that I think says it ain’t so.”

Is that all you’ve got???? Rubbish

lytle78 said:

One more thing. Folks ask questions others try to answer them, then on some forums, like this one it becomes like too many hens in one small henhouse - peck, peck, peck.

Folks refer to videos where they saw something they didn’t like. No link to where the video is, no time stamp as to what point in the video they saw what they didn’t like or believe’

Horse pucky. If you have a reference, cite it properly, otherwise it is just fluff,

If you saw something, tell us where - exactly where or I will assume it is just BS.

You are the moderator - in PM’s you come across all reasonable - is all this public challenge just to drive traffic to your forum? If so.....I am not at all sure I want to play.

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Rick... I am a beach hunter... when I post here I don't post with my title in mind... it has nothing to do with my opinions...

I posted about that AQ vs Nox video...

I question 1 part of that long cut and paste job you put up where its been posted on multiple forums that the AQ is not a coin machine... I see a pulse machine that finds all the stuff other pulse machines find... I don't see a depth advantage these are all my opinions...

For a year now... there has been this push to get the info out there to sell it to the masses on the net... where is it? What are they still trying to work out?


Until beach guys can get their hands on it... its just words on a screen that have been plastered all over these forums.

Yes and you have plastered at least as many words about it as I have.

When it is released, I may have more to say, but for now, you have effectively shut me up.

Congratulations and you may now return to your regularly scheduled program.

If folks want any more information or discussion from me about this pre-release, they will have to go elsewhere.

After it is released there will be a flood of comment and I will have little to contribute then pro or con.

lytle78 said:

Yes and you have plastered at least as many words about it as I have.

When it is released, I may have more to say, but for now, you have effectively shut me up.

Congratulations and you may now return to your regularly scheduled program.

If folks want any more information or discussion from me about this pre-release, they will have to go elsewhere.

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Rick, I hope you see our concern here.

1. This machine has been discussed for WAY too long, years in the making with no release date
2. The advertising of it has been terrible, any smartphone could have taken a better video and the results were questionable
3. You have the machine in your possession but where are the videos or reports from your use of it?

I plan on buying this machine, all I need is one or two experienced hunters (unbiased) give it a thumbs up. You are the BEST advocate for the machine, show us some results! Also, If there is no product release date, I think your response of "not posting" may be sound. We dont need to be dragged along unless there is a real report or release date of the product.

RRF, my thought exactly.

See you folks after product launch.

My work, pre-launch is done - love it or lump it, I did my best

lytle78 said:

RRF, my thought exactly.

See you folks after product launch.

My work, pre-launch is done - love it or lump it, I did my best

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Rick : I read your long post about the AQ a few times trying to understand it. For me it was tough to put a grasp on some of it. I just have a few things here :
1. It's not a coin shooter , but will pick up coins. Well , sometimes I don't mind getting a lot of coins if there is no gold to be found.
2. You say it gets pretty much all karats of gold based on size , depth , etc. BUT ! Worst case is it won't hit a BIG ring on top of black sand ? What is up with that ? That's my main objective. My confidence level will be crushed if I can eyeball a monster gold ring on the surface and my new detector won't see it.
3. Kinda seems like some contradictory statements you made explaining the features of this machine and what it can /cannot do.

Again , I mean no disrespect to you. But maybe it's me and I just don't quite understand it.
Thank you.

KOB said:

Rick : I read your long post about the AQ a few times trying to understand it. For me it was tough to put a grasp on some of it. I just have a few things here :
1. It's not a coin shooter , but will pick up coins. Well , sometimes I don't mind getting a lot of coins if there is no gold to be found.
2. You say it gets pretty much all karats of gold based on size , depth , etc. BUT ! Worst case is it won't hit a BIG ring on top of black sand ? What is up with that ? That's my main objective. My confidence level will be crushed if I can eyeball a monster gold ring on the surface and my new detector won't see it.
3. Kinda seems like some contradictory statements you made explaining the features of this machine and what it can /cannot do.

Again , I mean no disrespect to you. But maybe it's me and I just don't quite understand it.
Thank you.

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Many have forgot we are dealing with a French hunter on this detector, between translations, and being we don't hear it from the horses mouth things can get confused. One note LE JAG uses All Metal only so he is going to dig lots of trash and coins.

KOB, just to help you out...it will pick up coins..nickels..and hunting in a foreign county who knows what there coins are made besides LE JAG hunts in AM only from what I have heard. I could be wrong so don't come back on me on this.
The Big ring he was talking of a VLF not being able to hear a big gold ring on the black sand surface. I do dispute this, but I was not there and do not know the circumstances.

I too think this detector has been discuses to much here...So best maybe to close all right here and those that want information can go to the other forums. And ask if they need. Until we have this machine no one is going to know for sure because every beach is different. Carl Moreland said the machine is coming...that's enough for me. I'm not waiting or wishing..xxxxxx xxx xxx..Good Luck to all of the Pirates here on Surf and Sand.

As Toby Keith would say...... I'm Shutting her down ...

because of this statement thou im wondering .... just how fast the next machine will be out.... "Analogue analysis is not enough to deal with this kind of problem, digital processing is essential". Its kind of why i keep asking just how fast with this analogue machine be here to obsolete my may machine.... hopefully not 6 mos down the road... heck they keep going they might just want to hold off again and give us the digital.

Also we continue to talk about depth loss on 22k and above being more significant it appears... to the point of maybe NOT seeing it in disc. Isnt higher K gold a higher conductor reading? So its going out the coin end?

This statement is what i mean when i say there isnt enough testing being done IN the water. The seems to be far more concentration of minerals and added trash deterioration in settled hard pan .... than in wet sand and most of us know how unsettling the splash zone can be..... to the point of targets disappearing or the need to turn down the sensitivity on most machines. THEN..... things really change the more salt water you have below and ABOVE that coil out there. I also assume when he says SEA water he is talking Ocean?

"The IMPULSE AQ is not a coin shooter, it is only intended to detect gold jewellery and this on all types of SAND SATURATED WITH SEA WATER".

But then maybe we assume there are few that can and do get in the water? But i wouldnt assume because it works in the wet sand it will works just as well in the water. How much might that make a difference in those AM to disc depth differences? Trash or no trash i highly doubt most of the skilled hunters that get these machine will be doing anything other that REVERSE disc hunting. MOST hardly ever find any 22k or above gold...... but for those of us who do on that rare occassion..... we'd kind of like to know someone with a VLF wont be showing us their 22K find at the end of our hunt that they picked up behind us.

Also did i miss read it or is weight a factor? Is it only a factor..... say vs size because the heavier a target is the deeper it gets thus making it less detectable?

Most of us arent all hens..... and most of what we ask comes from our experience/results from various kinds of detectors so we try our best to comprehend whats being said and thus discussing it based on that. We arent trying to pick.... we are trying to analyze what to expect or NOT expect... or just how much this tech changes things. AND no one is calling Alexandre a foolish. Hes obviously very talented or Fisher wouldnt be working with him.

I have to ask, are you going to be the only source of this fist batch of detectors? Are any getting out to the dealers as well? Is it going to be that limited of a first run? Any insight into this?

lytle78 said:

Yes and you have plastered at least as many words about it as I have.

When it is released, I may have more to say, but for now, you have effectively shut me up.

Congratulations and you may now return to your regularly scheduled program.

If folks want any more information or discussion from me about this pre-release, they will have to go elsewhere.

After it is released there will be a flood of comment and I will have little to contribute then pro or con.

Click to expand...

Ok... you only have you and your cronies here to blame... you all talked up this next great PI that would make all other detectors for beach hunter obsolete..

Then the bugs started to rear their heads.... Now the latest delay is supposedly that to bring this detector here the electronics have to be changed for American standards....

When you got push back at Dankowski's you did the same thing you left for friendlier forums where the mods shut their members down from having an opinion... we don't do that here...

One final thought... why is it the powers that be did not go to someone like Nasa Tom to test it instead it was tested by the makers and unknowns... ?

dewcon said:

because of this statement thou im wondering .... just how fast the next machine will be out.... "Analogue analysis is not enough to deal with this kind of problem, digital processing is essential". Its kind of why i keep asking just how fast with this analogue machine be here to obsolete my may machine.... hopefully not 6 mos down the road... heck they keep going they might just want to hold off again and give us the digital.

Also we continue to talk about depth loss on 22k and above being more significant it appears... to the point of maybe NOT seeing it in disc. Isnt higher K gold a higher conductor reading? So its going out the coin end?

This statement is what i mean when i say there isnt enough testing being done IN the water. The seems to be far more concentration of minerals and added trash deterioration in settled hard pan .... than in wet sand and most of us know how unsettling the splash zone can be..... to the point of targets disappearing or the need to turn down the sensitivity on most machines. THEN..... things really change the more salt water you have below and ABOVE that coil out there. I also assume when he says SEA water he is talking Ocean?

"The IMPULSE AQ is not a coin shooter, it is only intended to detect gold jewellery and this on all types of SAND SATURATED WITH SEA WATER".

But then maybe we assume there are few that can and do get in the water? But i wouldnt assume because it works in the wet sand it will works just as well in the water. How much might that make a difference in those AM to disc depth differences? Trash or no trash i highly doubt most of the skilled hunters that get these machine will be doing anything other that REVERSE disc hunting. MOST hardly ever find any 22k or above gold...... but for those of us who do on that rare occassion..... we'd kind of like to know someone with a VLF wont be showing us their 22K find at the end of our hunt that they picked up behind us.

Also did i miss read it or is weight a factor? Is it only a factor..... say vs size because the heavier a target is the deeper it gets thus making it less detectable?

Most of us arent all hens..... and most of what we ask comes from our experience/results from various kinds of detectors so we try our best to comprehend whats being said and thus discussing it based on that. We arent trying to pick.... we are trying to analyze what to expect or NOT expect... or just how much this tech changes things. AND no one is calling Alexandre a foolish. Hes obviously very talented or Fisher wouldnt be working with him.

I have to ask, are you going to be the only source of this fist batch of detectors? Are any getting out to the dealers as well? Is it going to be that limited of a first run? Any insight into this?

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I gave up waiting when I read about the 22k and higher. I would be digging only 24k and iron. But I'm sure 24k gold will fall into different "areas" depending on size and shape. I bought another tdi