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  #1  
Old 09-26-2007, 06:51 PM
tvic25 tvic25 is offline
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Question Need Help with Ethical Dilemma.....

Hi All!

So....I realize that cemetaries are a no-no to Mders....However, directly across the street from my home is a privately owned cemetary.

As a new member of my city's Historical foundation, I have met the primary owner of this property.

The owner recently sold a large parcel of land on which a shopping center has been built. The dirt removed from her family's farm has been used on the perimeter of the cemetary. (I would only be hunting the perimeter)

The cemetary was established in the early 1800's.
Her family farm in the same era...

Since she has given me permission to hunt the cemetary, (and asked me to be on the board for the cemetary), do you think it is OK?

I explained to her that normally hunting in these areas was verboten, and explained to her that as much as I would love to hunt there, I would run it by you guys first.

So.....Help!! Need input as to whether or not ya'll think this is within the rules...

Thanks!!

Tvic25
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  #2  
Old 09-26-2007, 06:57 PM
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No way would I hunt in any sort of cemetery, even with the permission of whoever owned the land. Just the way I feel I guess. Respect for the dead outweighs my desire for trivial metal trinkets I may or may not find. For all I know items I found might have been left there on purpose by grieving loved ones. I wouldn't want to be the one to disturb something like that. Again, that's just me. I would be okay hunting an area around a cemetary though... just not the cemetary itself.

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  #3  
Old 09-26-2007, 07:11 PM
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Z - Good point.
And how about all the archeologists that have been digging up burial places from Egypt to Timbuktoo ? It is amazing how they can OK that in the name of whatever. What would the relatives of King Tut think about it ?
And is it ok to dig up our bodies after a certain period of time? Steve in so az

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  #4  
Old 09-26-2007, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by steve in so az View post
Z - Good point.
And how about all the archaeologists that have been digging up burial places from Egypt to Timbuktoo ? It is amazing how they can OK that in the name of whatever. What would the relatives of King Tut think about it ?
And is it ok to dig up our bodies after a certain period of time? Steve in so az
To me, the difference would be that archaeologists are digging things up in the name of science, history, and human knowledge. It's probably ignorant for me to think that's what all archaeologists are in it for, but regardless... at least hopefully whatever info could come of their finds would be shared and passed on into the bulk of human knowledge.

A guy with a metal detector, on the other hand, is probably digging things up because he likes old stuff and maybe hopes to make some great find. I'm not saying that he wouldn't have reverence for his finds and the history behind them, but most likely his finds would remain his own and whatever information could be gleaned from them would stay with him or be lost...

And yes, I guess time does come into it... The US is not that old really, not so old that the people buried here are so far removed from us. Their remnants are not far removed time wise as to be part of a distant history, but rather a part an immediate heritage and past. As opposed to the relics of people from 5,000 years ago... it shouldn't make a difference, but I guess to me it does, rational or not.

I don't know if I'm coming across clearly... and then again, maybe I'm all wrong on the topic.

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  #5  
Old 09-26-2007, 08:11 PM
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I say do it as long as you aren't digging the grave areas. I have been asked to detect in a cemetary to help find the corner markers. Then I can detect around as I wish. I go all around but not over the grave areas. For me, I'm not digging more than 4 inches generally so I think it is not a problem. IMHO
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  #6  
Old 09-26-2007, 08:13 PM
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I have the chance to do the same thing. On this private property I have permission to hunt on is a old graveyard. Some idiots destroyed the headstones in the 50s soo bad they couldnt tell who went where. Now theres just one plaque for 20 or so people that are buried. When I asked to hunt the property I didnt know about the cemetary, the person in charge told me about it and said " You can go hunt there to if you want to" I told him I didnt feel right about it. Ive found my best stuff to date on this property, not even getting close to the cemetary. Theres just too many other places to hunt in my opinion.

Ken
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  #7  
Old 09-26-2007, 08:48 PM
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Ok, I'll play the devil's advocate on this.

Assuming that there are no known shallow graves, or if there are, those areas can be identified and kept clear of.

Elsewhere, our dearly departed are normally set down at a 6' depth. Way beyond most metal detector's reach, so you would not be detecting the coffin metal parts.

One could safely assume that targets down to 10" or so are recent drops that occurred long after the interrment. If the target is deeper than 12", the understanding is that you would immediately cease and desist target retrieval.

So, having the owner's explicit permission; excercising extreme care so as not to cause damage to the grave markers or offerings placed there; and conducting yourself in a quiet and respectful manner and demeanor appropriate to the surroundings; I don't see an ethical problem.

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  #8  
Old 09-26-2007, 09:17 PM
tvic25 tvic25 is offline
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Red face cemetary hunting...

I guess I didn't state the hunting area accurately...It is the perimeter by the outside fence and at least 100' away from the graves....


By the way....After one week of hunting 2-3 hrs a day, I'm beginning to hate the Cortes...I think the ease of use of the Ace 250 has ruined me for anything other than a Garrett...I cannot understand the tones or pinpoint accurately...In the last week I have dug a gagillion holes and retrieved 2 pennies, three pulltabs, and 2 bottle caps. With the Ace I would have dug hundreds of pieces of junk and some decent clad....


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  #9  
Old 09-26-2007, 09:21 PM
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plenty other places to hunt man. do what you feel comfortable doing tho,if you feel now it might be a bit unethical and need to ask for our advise you probably wont feel rite when you get there and start huntin. but like i said do what ever you feel comfortable doing as long as its within the laws.

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  #10  
Old 09-26-2007, 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by tvic25 View post
I guess I didn't state the hunting area accurately...It is the perimeter by the outside fence and at least 100' away from the graves....


By the way....After one week of hunting 2-3 hrs a day, I'm beginning to hate the Cortes...I think the ease of use of the Ace 250 has ruined me for anything other than a Garrett...I cannot understand the tones or pinpoint accurately...In the last week I have dug a gagillion holes and retrieved 2 pennies, three pulltabs, and 2 bottle caps. With the Ace I would have dug hundreds of pieces of junk and some decent clad....


tvic25
Tesoro Cortes (may be for sale soon)
Garrett Ace250
Lesche Digger
I never had a Cortes but it seems funny to me about the pinpointing trouble you are having. Any Tesoro I ever had the pinpoint is dead on. Maybe something wrong with your detector? Nothing against the Ace 250 but the Cortes is at least 10 steps up the ladder I would think. This is a great forum but you might want to check out the Tesoro forum also and might get some other pointers on your Cortes. http://www.tesoro.com/ubbthreads/ Hope I am not breaking any rules here by posting a link to the Tesoro forum, if I am I am sorry & feel free to delete my post. Just trying to help. Steve.
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  #11  
Old 09-27-2007, 01:03 AM
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RedSeaBohemian RedSeaBohemian is offline
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Default Yes, dig

tvic25:
"The owner recently sold a large parcel of land on which a shopping center has been built. The dirt removed from her family's farm has been used on the perimeter of the cemetary. (I would only be hunting the perimeter)
The cemetary was established in the early 1800's.
Her family farm in the same era...
Since she has given me permission to hunt the cemetary, (and asked me to be on the board for the cemetary), do you think it is OK?"

tvic25: Personally, I see nothing wrong with md'ing an area that is private property, particularly in that YOU HAVE BEEN GIVEN permission by the owner. As you mentioned, the area you will md is the perimeter, which, imho, is clearly not in any way interferring with an actual gravesite.

In fact, I plan to md at my own family cemetary in the next few weeks, it is on our own property, not a very large cemetary with only about 20 graves and monuments. My personal feeling is that should I find any small relics or mementos they will remain with me, as a part of my collected family history, will remain with me or be given to other family members.

I might suggest that if you should find relics, etc. perhaps you should return them to the property owner, as a gesture of good faith. You have no reason to feel any angst nor guilt over this; it's obviously something you would enjoy and it sure doesn't seem to be an issue with the owner, go for it.

RSB

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  #12  
Old 09-27-2007, 01:24 AM
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Originally Posted by tvic25 View post
I guess I didn't state the hunting area accurately...After one week of hunting 2-3 hrs a day, I'm beginning to hate the Cortes...I think the ease of use of the Ace 250 has ruined me for anything other than a Garrett...I cannot understand the tones or pinpoint accurately...In the last week I have dug a gagillion holes and retrieved 2 pennies, three pulltabs, and 2 bottle caps.
I'm just guessing, but you might try lowering the sensitivity - a lot. Could be your just chasing false signals. Or maybe you need to ground balance more often. Maybe Tony can help you.

Good Luck

Rich

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  #13  
Old 09-27-2007, 03:13 AM
tvic25 tvic25 is offline
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Talking Thanks BilliardRich!

I felt that because the distance from the actual graves was pretty far away that it shouldn't raise too much concern.

Also, I have promised any relics, etc that I find will be given to the historical society. I have only asked to keep any coins...

They had no problem with that...

PS... Have tried EVERY setting....Am going to call Tony tomorrow because the machine makes the most godawful noise when set on all metal. No matter what I do, the all-metal mode is impossible to use....The machine literally never stops making that weird, squealing sound in all metal mode.
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  #14  
Old 09-27-2007, 03:23 AM
tvic25 tvic25 is offline
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Smile Thanks Red Sea Bohemian and everyone else who responded!

Thanks everyone for your responses. Since I will be a member of the board for the Cemetary committee, I feel kind of honored that they would entrust me to search for relics.

The woman who gave me permission is from a very old family here, and has also given me permission to hunt her family properties as well.

Now if I could just get the hang of this Cortes!!! LOL!!!!!!

Tvic25
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Garrett Ace250 ( determined to NOT use until I beat the Cortes)
Lesche Digger ( the only thing I know how to use EVERY time!) LOL!!!
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  #15  
Old 09-29-2007, 08:06 PM
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[QUOTE=z118;111079]To me, the difference would be that archaeologists are digging things up in the name of science, history, and human knowledge. It's probably ignorant for me to think that's what all archaeologists are in it for,but regardless...at least hopefully whatever info could come of their finds would be shared and passed on into the bulk of human knowledge.


the main thing there tryna do is save everything from being pilagged and disapearing who knows where,be only a few hundred years and all our stuff and remains will intreag the old human beans tenfold,
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  #16  
Old 01-15-2010, 02:31 PM
themartaman themartaman is offline
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Digging the first 6 inches is not desecrating a grave. If the person that owns propert gives you permission I would do it. After all a lot of them cut grass, plant flowers and do other surface work. Do what ever you think is ok. My opinion.
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  #17  
Old 01-15-2010, 03:01 PM
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[QUOTE=Rudy;111089]Ok, I'll play the devil's advocate on this.

Elsewhere, our dearly departed are normally set down at a 6' depth. Way beyond most metal detector's reach, so you would not be detecting the coffin metal parts.
QUOTE]

I would have to disagree. I worked many years for a burial vault company and can tell you that most graves today are not 6' deep.

In fact I have buried steel burial vaults that were less that 12" deep (well within reach of our MD's).

With that said, most older graves were 6' deep because they didn't have the means/equipment to properly prepare the bodies for burial. Nor the types of burial container that are out there today.

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  #18  
Old 01-15-2010, 03:25 PM
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If anybody sees you hunting a cemetary , all they know is you look like a grave robber , regardless of how careful you are. Things like this make detectorists look bad and further sets it in the minds of the public that we are all a bunch of nuts. Its best to avoid cemetaries and the areas nearby for that reason , plus it is the final resting place and I dont think it should be disturbed for the promise of personal gain.

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  #19  
Old 01-15-2010, 03:48 PM
xlt in MD xlt in MD is offline
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I would hit it. I have had permission to hunt them before and done so.It's not grave robbing. (not even close)the deepest you will dig would be maybe 12 to 14 inches and if you come across a body at that depth I would call the police.Even in the the 1800's they knew they had to bury their dead at a good depth.They didn't want the wild animals to get grandmom now did they.I would go for it , but I would show and let the owmer have anything I found as it might pretain to thier family.I have found some very nice coins in grave yard (old coopers)Some the onwers wanted and some just said keep'em.I would not hunt with out permission. Goodluck and HH
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  #20  
Old 01-15-2010, 04:37 PM
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I'd say go for it... Good luck!
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