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  #81  
Old 08-21-2019, 09:07 AM
CarsonChris CarsonChris is online now
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I hunt with permission every day i always ask the old lady if she minds if I go. When she gives me permission thatís good enough for me!
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  #82  
Old 08-21-2019, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by CarsonChris View post
.... When she gives me permission ...
The word "whipped" comes to mind
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  #83  
Old 08-21-2019, 07:58 PM
RichieSoprano RichieSoprano is offline
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Read some of the above posts. Missed others. Upshot is I ALWAYS ask nicely. 99% are glad I am there AND treat me like a human. By simply asking, and showing an interest in the PEOPLE and their home I am often INVITED to hunt and more often than not I am asked to come baco as often as I like. I think also that because I ALWAYS offer the landowners any antiques/relics and I make clear that I just get a hoot out of old coins even if they are corroded, they know the parameters. And I SHOW them everything I find. By the time I am done they are as excited by their haul as I am by mine. And we part friend's. God am I blessed. Heck yeah I ask. I even get permission to hunt the totlots at a local municipal building....which nobody hunts because they are simply too afraid to ask. Of course it helps that I show the head honchos all the metal fragments and broken glass I cleaned up too. This hobby isn't just about me. It's about them too. At least that's how I want to be treated.

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  #84  
Old 08-21-2019, 10:38 PM
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Originally Posted by RichieSoprano View post
.... I even get permission to hunt the totlots at a local municipal building.....
You ask permission to hunt municipal tot-lots ? Wow
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  #85  
Old 08-22-2019, 06:34 AM
RichieSoprano RichieSoprano is offline
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Yup. And I get them with NO problem. I always ask to see who's in charge, that I found something they need to see. I am carrying a small paper bag. When I see them I introduce myself and I say, this is what I found at xyz kids playground (and I make certain that's exactly what's in the bag)and I want you to see it. I show them the sharp metal glass and maybe a needle if I found one. Their eyes usually bug out. I tell them I am a metal detector hobbyist(and I mention that I am former LEO), that I don't charge anything to remove the material and that I know how to safely handle sharps. That I don't want the kids to be subjected to that....and that I enjoy detecting for the odd coin here or there. I then ASK would it be alright if I did that for you folks? I have had NO refusals from towns yet. I also explain that I leave NO damage or holes but would report if I saw anyone doing so. I usually get a Thank you and a handshake, with the usual(for me)...you come hunt the lot anytime. Like I said...it's not just about me.

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  #86  
Old 08-22-2019, 01:23 PM
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Richie-Soprano, thanx for taking a stab at that question. Let me respond :

Originally Posted by RichieSoprano View post
Yup. And I get them with NO problem.....
In the discussion of whether-or-not permission is required (or "noble to get", etc...) for public places (with no express prohibitions on md'ing), your type of answer is very common-place :

Someone (like you did here) will often point out places where they got permission successfully (totlots, parks, schools, beaches, etc...). And point to that permission (even "gleeful" permission, as you got) as a type of proof/evidence that : "Therefore, it was a good thing I asked" . Or "... Therefore, it's proper and noble to ask", etc...

I guess the underlying implied notion is: The *mere fact* that someone there said "yes", or that someone there was happy that you asked (and showed them sharp trash, etc...) is proof-positive that : Therefore it was necessary or noble or beneficial to ask. Right ? Am I getting the implied notions of the "yes" they gave you, correctly ?

As if to imply : If their permission HADN'T been necessary, then perhaps they would have answered something like this :

"Gee, that's a funny question. Why are you asking me ? You don't need my permission, if no rules or laws forbid it". Right ? But as you can see: Authority never answers like that. Instead, they will bestow on you their princely "yes" or "no". After all, you're standing there asking them. And after all, the mere fact that you're asking, implies that their say-so is necessary. Otherwise, why else would you be asking ?

Thus no, I do not construe a "yes" or a "no" as implying that: "... Therefore, it was necessary that I had asked" (after all, no one asks to do benign/harmless/inncouous things, right ?)

With that said : I'm glad you got resounding yes in your tot-lot case. But just be aware: There's been forum post stories of persons who fetched a "no", where there was no-such rule or law that forbade md'ing. And places where .... quite frankly .... it had never been an issue before. So as you can see .... it can be a risk that a "pressing question" is met with "images of geeks with shovels".
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  #87  
Old 08-22-2019, 01:51 PM
RichieSoprano RichieSoprano is offline
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I agree that overreach NY authoritarians is always a concern. Sadly, those on bureaucracy most often feel their perceived need to feel in control. While I am feeding them that on their end of the transaction, on my end it is about MY ethical choice. Yeah, I could just go detect...but it could end badly and the hobby could get a black eye. In the general long game, I want to know I did the right thing. As far as authoritarianistically inclined tyrants are concerned: as a Patriotic American...I have an answer for them. Same one our founding fathers gave the tyrants of their day. In other words, my actions reflect the type of language directed at me. It is equally true that I am interested in gaining access, and I don't want my grandkids playing in a totlots of sharps. Killin' 2 birds with one stone. And I am making the hobby look good. I hope that helps.

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  #88  
Old 08-22-2019, 01:53 PM
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P.S. I also show my technique and even offer to let the person look over my machine. They seem to get a kick out of it.

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  #89  
Old 08-22-2019, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by RichieSoprano View post
.... I hope that helps.
Yes, thanx for further extrapolating. But :

Originally Posted by RichieSoprano View post
.... it is about MY ethical choice. .... I want to know I did the right thing.....
Here is what I don't understand : What is not "ethical" or not "right", about doing things which are not illegal ? If there is no law or rule that prevents something, then how is it "unethical" or not "right", to do that thing ?
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  #90  
Old 08-22-2019, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom_in_CA View post
Here is what I don't understand : What is not "ethical" or not "right", about doing things which are not illegal ? If there is no law or rule that prevents something, then how is it "unethical" or not "right", to do that thing ?
Aren't there a laws against trespassing and theft?
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  #91  
Old 08-22-2019, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by FliesOnly View post
Aren't there a laws against trespassing and theft?
flies-only, apparently you missed the context of that post that that comment was referring to. That person/post was talking about municipal tot lots.

Ok, is muni tot lots "trespassing" and "theft" ? I don't think so. Thus I think you missed the context there (post #83 and 84).
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  #92  
Old 08-22-2019, 07:41 PM
RichieSoprano RichieSoprano is offline
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What I am attempting to say(albeit not very eloquently)is that maybe there is/are no written rules or laws...but what about the UNWRITTEN law...the perception we produce? I like the idea of promoting the hobby in a positive light. And that's what I think I am doing. Maybe when someone stops at that beautiful house built in 1830 and the municipal councilman answers the door and you ask permission to hunt his lawn...maybe, just maybe...he'll remember me...and you just might get your permission too. There is one other thing, tho it might not be for everyone...I don't want to ever besmirch the Person to whom I owe everything. For years I did tho I used to claim His name. Gave a real BAD reputation and connotation to the title Christian. So yeah, I am probably going a little overkill, but I am not the only person in this. There's the owner/custodian of a property, and there is MY owner who paid a Very high price for me, not to mention my wife...wanna keep her proud of me, and I used to give her reasons for not being so proud, plus I owe it to every single person on this site who detects...what I do reflects on you. I suppose I could just hunt the mini lots....but what if that sets an official "off?" They might not say anything...but maybe next time one of us drives up....Will there be a spanky new sign posted prohibiting what was once unspoken? What I am trying real hard to say is I want to make it SO positive they look forward to seeing.....YOU!

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  #93  
Old 08-22-2019, 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by RichieSoprano View post
... maybe there is/are no written rules or laws...but what about the UNWRITTEN law...the perception we produce?...

I kind of get what you are saying. But ... don't think that permission-asking "solves that". What I mean is that : YES... Sure.... Sometimes md'ing carries ... uh .... "connotations". Right ? Ie.: that you might be about to leave a hole or "take" something, etc... Right ?

But I don't believe that permission solves that. If it were true, that someone's perceptions of a "man with a metal detector " is holes, damage, and taking things, then ..... gee ..... that person might just say "no". Even though we agree that there's no rule or law that forbids.

And this is what I have seen happen: Sometimes (fortunately not in your tot-lot case), persons have received "no's", where it's never been an issue ever before. Hmmm, does this mean md'ing is no longer allowed ? See how the devil is in the details ?

And actually .... 99% of the time, passerbys do NOT see our hobby in a "bad light" (especially if you're talking about something as innocuous as a tot-lot sand-box type thing). I'm willing to bet that most people could/would care less. In fact, I find passerbys to actually be intrigued and curious. Asking things like "how deep does it go?" and "what's the best thing you've ever found?" etc.... Thus I don't agree with the premise that md'ing is somehow an eyesore ... or disliked or whatever, such that we should all get permission first.

The exception, I admit, is nicely manicured turf But again, I don't think permission is the solution (because you can bump into the no-one-cared-till-you-asked phenomenon). Instead, my solution for nice-manicured turf is to simply go at low traffic times (even at night, if need be). Because, sure, you're never going to please every last person on earth. Kind of like nose-picking: Not illegal, nor do we ask permission, but .... we all use discretion of timing so as not to offend people, right ?
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  #94  
Old 08-23-2019, 07:22 AM
RichieSoprano RichieSoprano is offline
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I see what you are saying. In some cases it might be wise "to practice your rights when no one is looking." I can see that. I have received one "no" from a friend, because his wife probably had some ideas about it when he must have mentioned it to her(she wasn't present when I did my pitch). But her husband, in relaying the "no" added Very Quickly..."but I'll let you know if that changes 'cause I'd love to see what's down there.

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  #95  
Old 08-23-2019, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Tom_in_CA View post
flies-only, apparently you missed the context of that post that that comment was referring to. That person/post was talking about municipal tot lots.

Ok, is muni tot lots "trespassing" and "theft" ? I don't think so. Thus I think you missed the context there (post #83 and 84).
Bwa ha ha ha...you bringing up context is hilarious. The name of the thread is "Places I've hunted without permission" and we both know the notion of venturing onto private property has come up more than once.
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  #96  
Old 08-25-2019, 12:54 PM
CarsonChris CarsonChris is online now
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Bank foreclosures, empty lots with no fencing, lots with fencing and no signs, parks, forest land, beaches, and curb strips. Did I leave off places, probably! Been kicked off 2 properties this year.
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  #97  
Old 08-25-2019, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by CarsonChris View post
Bank foreclosures, empty lots with no fencing, lots with fencing and no signs, parks, forest land, beaches, and curb strips. Did I leave off places, probably! Been kicked off 2 properties this year.
Parks, forest land, beaches and curb strips. Usually not private property.

Bank foreclosures, empty lots with no fencing, lots with fencing and no signs... those usually are private property. Regardless of whether you think anybody cares about you being there.

If you think private property is ok to detect without permission, so be it.

But for the sake of the hobby, please don't brag about it on a public forum where people who are not friendly to our hobby may lurk.

Simple common sense, Chris.
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  #98  
Old 08-25-2019, 03:12 PM
CarsonChris CarsonChris is online now
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The hardest part is elbowing the homeless out of the way! If property is maintained or in use I ask. If itís not I donít.
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  #99  
Old 08-25-2019, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by CarsonChris View post
The hardest part is elbowing the homeless out of the way! ....
Durned those homeless people who didn't ask permission to put up their tents and shopping carts there, eh ?
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  #100  
Old 08-25-2019, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom_in_CA View post
Durned those homeless people who didn't ask permission to put up their tents and shopping carts there, eh ?
Exactly, or the kids that turned the abandoned house into a party spot or a BMX track.
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