Curb grass and strips.

pghcoinhunter

Junior Member
Joined
Dec 26, 2011
Messages
37
Location
Pittsburgh, PA
I'm just curious if you ask permission to dig the curb strips. I was going to go hunt the older part of town here, but the older part is also the bad part. I know the sidewalk is public property, but to avoid getting shot I was considering asking permission even though it is most likely public property.

Just curious on the feed back I'll get on this one.

Thanks.
 
In my area, the curb strip, is still part of the property, and referred to as an 'easement', which basically gives the city the right to use it, if the need to widen the road, traffic signs, street lights, utilities. The property owner still needs to pick up the trash, and mow it occasionally. Some people give it the same care and consideration, as the rest of their yard, even plant trees and flowers. Some even have in-ground sprinklers. The key is respect, there are miles of strips to search, pass up a few well cared for sections isn't going make much difference, may not be anything worth digging, or getting someone upset over. I've been hitting the strips for about a year now, nothing spectacular, but usually some good clad, interesting car parts, bicycle parts, trash... I usually keep it quick and shallow, to avoid drawing much attention, and to beat the heat.
 
I have been thinking about doing curb strip hunting. I think the parks are all hunted out in my area. By me. I thought I would start doing the curb strips in front of businesses, preferably when they are closed. Or churches. I thought I may get less confrontation that way. What do you think? Does anyone do just businesses or churches along the curb strip? Thank you so much for your help
 
There was a long thread titled "Another take on ROWS or curb strips" this week that's woth reading.
 
Thanks for the props, Muddy!:grin:

I won't repeat all the stuff I said in that thread, just a couple key points.

Most areas around me, the ROWS (right-of-way strips) are city-owned. But that's not always true. If you're not sure where you are and you don't want to just assume, check the city website online or ask an experienced realtor in the area. If you ask at city hall, DO NOT mention metal detecting. You are likely to get a "you can't do that" or "we don't want you doing that" from some low level bureaucrat who otherwise wouldn't have given it a thought.

One of the reasons you are likely to get a "we don't want you doing that" is because of buried utility lines. Of course that shouldn't be a concern because they are typically buried several feet deep below the freeze line. But to someone who knows nothing about MDing, visions of you potentially tearing up the ground and haphazardly digging there is going to put up a red flag.

If you are going to detect those ROWS without permission, bring along your thick skin and your big you know whats. Especially if you are going to be doing them in front of occupied houses. Make no mistake, you will be approached with various degrees of suspicion and anger. The higher the traffic time you go, the higher the number of confrontations.

I'll re-emphazize what I said in that other thread. Asking permission to do the ROWS in front of someone's house is an easy permission to get. And will often lead to permission for the rest of the yard. Another advantage of this is it works best at high traffic times when people are already outside of their houses. Asking homeowners who are outside almost always results in a yes for me. The key phrase when asking is referring to it as "the city-owned right-of-way strip".
 
Welcome

and of course, in these areas you risk getting shot just for knocking on a door. :)
First welcome to FMDF. This is the first post of yours I've seen. I have caught a couple of your videos and enjoyed them. Keep up the good work. As far as curbstrips, I agree the good really good ones seem to have some less than stellar residents. I have eyeballed a few over in Carrick that don't seem too bad. Have you ever seen those big old houses way back up on the hill ? Oh man ! Probably wouldn't live to tell the story. Good luck and don't forget to post pics of your finds. HH Mark
 
Nothing wrong with a welcome seven years late:lol:

Don't feel bad, I didn't notice either.
 
Curb Strips

I have been thinking about doing curb strip hunting. I think the parks are all hunted out in my area. By me. I thought I would start doing the curb strips in front of businesses, preferably when they are closed. Or churches. I thought I may get less confrontation that way. What do you think? Does anyone do just businesses or churches along the curb strip? Thank you so much for your help

I,ve been doing curb strips for probably 7 years. I love curb strips. I just do older parts of town. I am old (73), and believe my old age makes me look harmless. I drive along until I see dirt that's below the sidewalk, or dead grass that is not much above the sidewalk, and hit it. If it's well groomed, I stay away. I found my most valueable coin in a curb strip, an 1897s Half Dollar, and plenty other half dollars. People have been pulling keys out of their pockets getting ready to get in their cars for years and gold rings, silver coins, and Indians not to mention wheat pennies, fall out of their pocket, and I come along many years later, and walla, I come with my metal detector and I find them. Some people come out and don't like me there, so I tell them, "If I am bothering you, I will leave right now, and I do. Some people come out and ask what I am doing, and when I tell them I am looking for old coins, and show them what I have found, some find it very interesting, and when I ask to do their yard, I would say 60% say yes. I don't like to knock on doors, but when I hitting the curb strips, and I see someone outside, I walk over and tell them what I am doing, and ask for permission to do their yard. You would be surprised how nice most people are.
I will never quit doing city strips, I love em.
 
Try to detect in front of businesses or churches. Wouldn't hurt to ask, but its not mandatory. This might be the first steps I take at detecting curbs, always wanted too, just have the same fears as you stated( minus getting shot :lol:) Good luck out there!
 
....Wouldn't hurt to ask, but its not mandatory....


"Connotation" issues aside: I agree that it's "not mandatory".

But I do say that it sometimes does "hurt to ask". If you waltz into the business or church and ask "Hi can I detect your curbstrip?", then ... they could say "no". Yet ... in reality, would perhaps never given it a moment's thought, nor cared less. Heck, they're not even there or open "after hours". Yet ... faced with you seeming to need-their-permission, then all-too-often, you can subject yourself to their "safe answer". And to me, that "hurts", haha
 
You can't assume that just because there is a sidewalk and strip of grass between it and the street that the strip of grass is public property.

Ideally, you find out the formal property boundaries. At a minimum, you find out how they're typically drawn in your city and/or whether there are any local regs on the topic.

In some places, the private property lines extend all the way to the street and sometimes even to the middle of the street. An easement might exist across the front of the property to grant access for specific purposes (i.e., city improvements like streets, sidewalks, utility maintenance, etc.). The easement doesn't make it public, nor does it give access for any other purpose than intended.

In other cases, the property lines stop well short of the street whether there is a sidewalk or not. (See the photo below.) There may or may not be an easement recorded on the property plat/deed that extends further into the private property lines. Either way, the property owner is expected to maintain that area next to their property, but it is not their property. The city can build a sidewalk, widen the road, or anything else that doesn't violate property and building codes.

Interestingly, you can seen in the photo below that the city did some sort of work, maybe underground utility work, and improved the driveway aprons, but only up to the property lines. Legally, somebody can set up a lawn chair on that grass between the street and the property line and drink lemonade all day if they want, although the homeowner may not be happy with it.
 

Attachments

  • raw1.jpg
    raw1.jpg
    100.9 KB · Views: 397
Last edited:
You can't assume that just because there is a sidewalk and strip of grass between it and the street that the strip of grass is public property. .....

This has come up MANY times in the past, in the discussions of this topic.

You're right : Some municipalities might have the curb-strip entirely publically owned . Ie.: the homeowner's property ends at the sidewalk. EVEN though the homeowner, no doubt, mows the sidewalk strip. In other municipalities, the homeowners property goes all the way to the street (ie.: he "owns" the parking strip). *HOWEVER*, there is an easement that allows public access. Such that .... if your passenger gets out of the vehicle on the driver side, and (gasp) steps on the sidewalk, he's not trespassing. And yet other places, perhaps they own all the way to the middle of the street.

But in EACH AND EVERY CASE (even if it can be argued that the homeowner "owns" the strip), yet : No one bats an eye if the city is doing public utility work there. Or if a passenger (gasp) get out of the passenger side of the vehicle there. Right ?

...., nor does it give access for any other purpose than intended. .....

There seems to be a subtly implied notion here. For example : You would probably agree that "getting out of one's car on the passenger side" is on ok "purpose". Right ? Yet I'll bet you dollars to donuts that you can not find that anywhere "spelled out". Ie.: I challenge you to find me an "express allowance" that "allows" someone to get out of the passenger side of a vehicle, and step on the grass. You won't find it. Why ? Because it's utterly silly to even worry or think about such-a-thing. No one has to "make a law allowing it", because .... it's just a "given" that it's harmless.

Ok, then is md'ing necessarily "harmful" :?: If so, then I'd agree that it's therefore "not for the intended purpose". It all depends on how you define md'ing. If we define it as harmful , then sure : Ask permission or don't do it. I, however, do not consider md'ing harmful. I consider it as benign and innocuous as someone simply walking there. :cool3:
 
There seems to be a subtly implied notion here. For example : You would probably agree that "getting out of one's car on the passenger side" is on ok "purpose". Right ? Yet I'll bet you dollars to donuts that you can not find that anywhere "spelled out". Ie.: I challenge you to find me an "express allowance" that "allows" someone to get out of the passenger side of a vehicle, and step on the grass. You won't find it. Why ? Because it's utterly silly to even worry or think about such-a-thing. No one has to "make a law allowing it", because .... it's just a "given" that it's harmless.

Ok, then is md'ing necessarily "harmful" :?: If so, then I'd agree that it's therefore "not for the intended purpose". It all depends on how you define md'ing. If we define it as harmful , then sure : Ask permission or don't do it. I, however, do not consider md'ing harmful. I consider it as benign and innocuous as someone simply walking there. :cool3:

Stepping foot on somebody's property to take a shortcut around a corner, or to get out of a car parked on the street, or to retrieve a wayward football is categorically different than entering someone's property for the unlawful purpose of taking something of value. Specifically, one is not against the law and the other is. (I'm talking about places where the owner does own the curbstrip even if there is an easement on record to allow a sidewalk, etc...)

Now, if I'm tired of so-and-so cutting across my property as a shortcut, and I give them a trespass warning because I feel they are depriving me of the use and enjoyment of my land, then they would be doing something illegal the next time around.

So, stepping foot onto someone's property is not illegal unless you've already received a trespass warning, or if it's posted AND it's a place where signs carry equal weight as a direct verbal warning. On the other hand, entering property for an unlawful purpose is trespassing. An unlawful purpose would include taking things that you should reasonably expect the property owner to have a stronger claim of ownership than you.

You're right about metal detecting not being harmful. It's the metal detecting and then taking stuff part that gets into things you aren't supposed to do, not to mention turf damage if the detectorist is careless.
 
Last edited:
... for the unlawful purpose of taking something of value. ....

Yes. If we define md'ing as the act of "taking things of value", then you're right : That wouldn't be allowed on parking strips. But ... oddly .... if we define md'ing that way, then *so too* could md'ing be said to .... likewise ...... be unlawful at most all places. Eg.: Parks, schools, beaches etc...

Here's what I mean : Go to the administering agency of any park or beach. Even where md'ing is common-place and not specifically disallowed. And ask them: "Can I please take items of value from the park / beach ?". Then sit back and relish in their answer.

Which, of course, would be a silly way of wording the question. But ... it's the definition that you yourself have given md'ing. So why mince words ? Why not be forthcoming with your intentions :?:

I don't disagree with you that, yes, we "take things of value". And heck, we even "dig" (aka: alter and deface). It gets to the point that if we dissect possible definitions of our hobby long enough and hard enough, is the moment we might as well give up :(
 
Yes. If we define md'ing as the act of "taking things of value", then you're right : That wouldn't be allowed on parking strips. But ... oddly .... if we define md'ing that way, then *so too* could md'ing be said to .... likewise ...... be unlawful at most all places. Eg.: Parks, schools, beaches etc...

Here's what I mean : Go to the administering agency of any park or beach. Even where md'ing is common-place and not specifically disallowed. And ask them: "Can I please take items of value from the park / beach ?". Then sit back and relish in their answer.

I don't need to explain the difference between private property and public property. Instead, I'll point out that the likelihood of returning a random unmarked coin or ring lost on a beach, school yard, or park (i.e., public places) to someone with a better claim of ownership than you have is near zero. We can also assume going into the hunt that the items we uncover truly are lost. People generally don't put a random coin or piece of jewelry on the ground in a public place with the intent of returning to it. If there are no laws against metal detecting in those public places, then metal detecting with the intent of recovering lost items is perfectly fine.

So, we can reasonably expect 99.9% of the items ever recovered from those public places to fall under "finder's keepers". Yes, in some states or cities, finds should be turned into the police, but in all places reasonable steps should be made to return lost items to the rightful owner. For the random coin or unmarked jewelry, the police or school or park administrator have no more chance of doing this than we do. There are no reasonable steps to be taken because there are no reasonable steps that could lead to their return, including handing them over to authorities. For that reason, "finder's keepers" has proven in courts to be a strong claim of ownership for unmarked items clearly lost on public property.

But, what about private property? It is quite a leap to assume the items you find do not belong to the homeowner. Even if they didn't personally lose them they have a stronger claim of ownership than you do. But, you go ahead and detect anyway and find a silver dollar. Unlike a public place, a reasonable step is now available: ask the property owner that is a door knock away. If you were going to do that, then you would have asked permission from the start.

Entering somebody's property without permission to recover and remove items that the homeowner almost certainly has a better claim of ownership over is unethical at best and theft by finding at worst. The sensible and lawful thing to do is ask them in advance for permission to find and keep some or all of the items. In doing so, the property owner is relinquishing their claim of ownership over the lost items. At that point, the "finder" has the better claim of ownership and can keep the items if no further reasonable steps can be taken.
 
Last edited:
It gets to the point that if we dissect possible definitions of our hobby long enough and hard enough, is the moment we might as well give up :(

No, not really. We can recover lost items from public places unless doing so by metal detection or probing/digging is not allowed. We can take it from the property with the intent of returning it, but keep it if there's no reasonable way to find a person with a better claim of ownership. Or, your reasonable steps are unsuccessful. You can do the same on private property if you get permission.
 
Last edited:
.... I don't need to explain the difference between private property and public property......

The way I see it, the age-old "curb-strip" question is NOT a question of "public vs private". It's a question of public eavesment usage allowance. Because, we both agree, the public is not disallowed from stepping there. So the issue is not "public vs private". It's what constitutes improper harmful use, verus innocuous harmless use. At this location where you are not disallowed to be at.

I don't disagree that md'ing could be construed as "outside the pale". But then again ..... so too could the same thing be said of parks, beaches, etc... For example: I had a lady on the beach gripe at me one time, because she thought my detector was bothering her dog. I think she thought it emitted some frequency or sound that only dogs heard ? :?:

... If there are no laws against metal detecting in those public places, then metal detecting with the intent of recovering lost items is perfectly fine. .....

Sounds good to me ! :cool3:

.... For that reason, "finder's keepers" has proven in courts to be a strong claim of ownership for unmarked items clearly lost on public property. .....

If you look up Kentucky's Lost & Found laws, You would find a threshold value criteria by-which .... any item over that value, is supposed to be turned in to the police. These laws were born out of wandering cattle laws. All 50 states have the laws. And the values are typically $100-ish. Thus ... yes ... random coins or lower value rings would be outside of those laws. There has been stories of persons who assumed "finders keepers", who did-indeed get into legal hassles d/t L&F laws.

.... We can recover lost items from public places unless doing so by metal detection or probing/digging is not allowed.....

To be utterly technical, I agree. But : How far would you be willing stand besides this statement ? How strongly do you affirm this ? Because the fact is, there is *NO* park, across the entire USA, where . .... If you looked long enough and hard enough, that you can't find something that prohibits digging. Oh sure, it might not use the word "dig". Perhaps it will use the word "deface". Or "alter". Or "vandalize". Or "molest". Or "disturb", etc..... So to take what you're saying to it's logical conclusion : We can't detect any park in the USA. Yet... Oddly .... as you can see, no shortage of md'rs posting their show & tell made from parks.
 
Back
Top Bottom