Fisher Impulse AQ detector update

Many have forgot we are dealing with a French hunter on this detector, between translations, and being we don't hear it from the horses mouth things can get confused. One note LE JAG uses All Metal only so he is going to dig lots of trash and coins.

KOB, just to help you out...it will pick up coins..nickels..and hunting in a foreign county who knows what there coins are made besides LE JAG hunts in AM only from what I have heard. I could be wrong so don't come back on me on this.
The Big ring he was talking of a VLF not being able to hear a big gold ring on the black sand surface. I do dispute this, but I was not there and do not know the circumstances.

I too think this detector has been discuses to much here...So best maybe to close all right here and those that want information can go to the other forums. And ask if they need. Until we have this machine no one is going to know for sure because every beach is different. Carl Moreland said the machine is coming...that's enough for me. I'm not waiting or wishing..xxxxxx xxx xxx..Good Luck to all of the Pirates here on Surf and Sand.

As Toby Keith would say...... I'm Shutting her down ...

:popcorn:



Joe... I started hunting with a pulse.. I may not be as sharp on the technical aspects of the PI like some but based on me hunting with a pulse for years at the beach this detector looks no different in depth as what is available today based on their own video's... personally... a pulse is about getting as deep as possible to get what VLF hunters can't reach the fact after watching these video's I would never employ the disc option as it loses at least 10% depth and could be more... we don't know for sure because non one I know has tested it we have had to reply on cut and paste posts on our forum because we have not been graced with the builders coming here...

I appreciate Rick coming here but he needs to realize its not going to be all wine and roses posting on the forums...especially when for months and months we have been told its right around the corner.... its like the little boy who cried wolf... my motto is post and be damned...
 
I really wish Sandcrab would post on this thread... He is a beach hunter and he knows his stuff...

How are you Craig... I decided to take one person out of my sights. You can tell him if you choose...

The one side hates PI, they go run to a cut like the circus is in town, get 100's of coins but all the pulse guys run away... The other side say this thing is going to make them like Moses with his staff, just tap the sand and the gold will just come to the surface... They are already modifying it, really??? It gets better by the minute… But from both camps, how many have used a pulse on the beach in the past year? Even own a pulse, but all are saying what it can do… Yea compare it to an Excal or Equinox, sure. On even medium mineralized ground… You know exactly what I think about the Excal and I have done everything to it and then some, still is lacking.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_5JWM-9n5E&feature=emb_logo

The video, this is what I was talking about… Watch when he swings the nail, that to me sounds like the machine is giving an overload signal. It goes to a tone to overload at about the 1:10 mark forward. A tone but then overload drowns out the tone. Oh but it is sooooo smooth. Maybe just maybe the threshold is turned down. But no already have some saying what it can do with that video… Change this, change that. Yea the headphones will do it. Really??? Always thought the coil could change the whole dynamic of a pulse machine.

Now at 2:27 watch that real close, that is when the ring is introduced to the coil. As it goes perpendicular to the coil look when it detects it… It happens really fast but approaching the coil listen. Don’t care about the speed swing, that is a joke… Now I know PI’s are not the best at air testing, but not getting into that discussion. For reference the end of the screen to the left to where the coil is would be about 12” approx… Come to your own conclusions.

It has a ceiling for the power going to the coil, but what is the floor? Oh but its volts vs current… If it is taking dual samples would it not have two blind spots… If it is optimized for salt, what happens to the small items? Would that be another blind spot. But is it sensitive or deep? Keep seeing these two statements intermingled, because it is sensitive it is deep. Really? So a machine running higher power with a coil that can handle the power and hopefully the ground can take the added power would that make it more sensitive or deeper? Now add pulse delay, pulse delay then does what? I don’t need any of them answered, I already know. For example if a PI detector on the receiver used a voltage regulator, but the transmit signal is current driven, then would higher battery voltage mean a stronger pulse into the ground? But if the power is limited to the coil???… How much of that power which is already limited gets to the coil… Something else to consider.





Like the TDI, the AQ in discriminate is using two samples to determine high or low tone/mute. Unlike the TDI, there is no “hole” where the ground balance breaks. In the TDI, any target whose time constant is near the GB setting has greatly reduced signal strength - leading to complaints of “invisible nuggets” when looking for nuggets and accounting for the mediocre depth when using offset GB to ID high conductors like silver coins while excluding most iron.

I never said the iron ID is infallible. My own limited experience with it at beaches (San Diego and Drøbak in Norway) showed the ID to provide a useful level of discrimination between ferrous and other targets. Infallible - no. Badly rusted hairpins fooled it occasionally as did bits of wire. In those cases, raising the coil to bring the target to the limits of detection caused it to break up convincingly. Steel crown caps are a complex target and many detectors struggle with them - they can fool the AQ also on occasion.

I would only use discrimination on a beach with the AQ if ferrous trash was a major issue on that particular beach. The signal from good targets in all metal is plenty solid and you can often ID iron, especially elongated stuff just fine in AM by “Mapping” the target nd listening to the response in one direction vs the other.

When comparing to the TDI, the AQ runs happily in all metal on almost any beach, no matter the mineralization - The TDI with GB (and therefore some discrimination via two tone) is crippled for depth and I suspect no one runs it GB on at the beach.

Alexandre has “tickled” the system to extend the “first sample” spread so that gold jewelry has a “big window” to come in as a good target. This is unique and even If I understood how he has done it, I wouldn’t be allowed to say.

Here is what he wrote himself on the subject on one of the forums. I will post it now in a separate post.

You sure about that one? The TDI uses two samples. But there is no blind spot with the Fisher, but where are you getting the 10% loss in your next post. 10% of what, good way to not nail down an actual number… Why compare gold nuggets and mediocre depth, nice use of words. So the Fisher machine would be mediocre as well? You have posted ad nauseum that this is not a gold nugget machine. Odd you would compare the TDI to nuggets. I really liked that the TDI is crippled in GB, but the Fisher “runs happily” with what kind of loss? In fact tell me the loss in inches on the Fisher? On a TDI what is the exact loss, percentages do nothing. You posted it, owned one, care to share that number?

I will make it easier, my TDI Pro is that in name only from everything I have done to it. I can run it at 19.5v if I so choose, built a few coils to match the power, can run 8ms, for the type of hunting I am going to do. That was tested in a lab more than once on my dime. If I adjust it specifically for low conductors, and the ground will allow the power, water temp, air temp, water depth, current, uneven sand layer or anything else will not come into play at 8ms, how much depth am I losing in GB? You have stated you used and know the TDI… Somewhat difficult for you to say, now you can see how others see some of your posts. How about the Beach Hunter, how is the threshold on that machine? Just curious...

“Alexandre has “tickled” the system to extend the “first sample” spread so that gold jewelry has a “big window” to come in as a good target.” But there is no hole/blind spot? Then what is a “big window”? How about the edges of the window, one side and the other?

“So, in practical terms, the iron ID function works to the full depth of detection, but that depth is somewhat less than in all metal - although jewelry below 22k is not severely affected.”

This has to be without a doubt my favorite post you have ever written, bar none!!! So would that be considered double talk? “Full depth of detection, but that depth is less… but under 22k is not severely affected…” Hmmm that is an interesting view… So in practical terms “I got you a full tank of gas but the gauge is only reading one half… So when it explodes there will be less gas to burn…” Am I reading this correctly???

But above you stated the Fisher “runs happily…” in ground balance…
What the Devil is runs happily??? Is that some technical term? If you are writing the manual I have to get my hands on one.


You know I really don’t care… At one time I did, all I have ever used is a pulse. Heck I answered I believe Jag years back when he wanted info on the Gold Scan. Long before you started your quest and then you would pop up in every thread regarding a pulse machine to somehow bring up what Fisher was doing. I have read info you have posted that is false, watch some question you lately but others come to your defense saying that was a year ago.

Other than the million posts about the Nox, this comes as a solid second. I know I am not alone in saying that. I seriously don’t want the machine after reading all of your posts, if Fisher thought it was a good idea that is on them. Would have been better not saying a word, bring it to market and buy it to find out if it is better than what I am using. Then again forums are a niche, metal detecting a smaller niche and water hunting is even smaller. There are few out there that really know/use a pulse machine for the beach. Yea I have an Aqua-Star that runs at 8ms as well, and a Barracuda, a modified TDI Beach Hunter, the lower power Aqua-sound and a couple others. The Aqua-Star I would rank third of all my pulse machines. Something to consider.

You look at all the threads, but nothing you could take to the bank, mostly percentages and hedging your bets. Nothing solid, even the power is a question? Then you go out and say once people use it then… Yea but the people using it will be comparing it to VLF machines they use. What will that prove? Even the tests that are shown, against a Nox? Seriously… In a way you and Fisher have created this buffer zone, few own the rigs I have. For most it will be a step up in some ways, any good pulse machine would be. But for the guys that do have very capable machines? Most of the reports to me will amount to nothing, going from a weak machine to a stronger one. Yea I can already hear the answer, well you are going to have to buy it and try it out. In fact your most recent post is below, like you read my mind...

Now I have seen all the offers of people saying to help you, test it out, ploys to get the machine early. Even posting finds to maybe be one of the first… (That ring a bell with anyone reading???) If you do ever get one, I will send you a map of an area. It is near impossible for most, watched many go over it and maybe get a light find or two. If the machine is good enough, there is old big gold there. The picture I posted from last year with the 30gram gold ring and the 3 others at about 10g each were from that spot in one day. That area always produces something but is fickle. You go have fun, I don’t want to be there, test it, see it, get it early or anything. Freely given no strings attached... You go back home and then tell me how you did on one of “my beaches.” Maybe you could back up “your conclusion” below…

You did write this… “Now that I have inundated all of you with text, here is my conclusion.

This thing will kick you know what. Early users will explore their own “turf” and develop approaches and techniques which yield extraordinary results. Just hope it’s not on you beaches!!

Or maybe it will prove to be a “damp squib” much like the TDI.”
 
Who let the dogs out :laughing::laughing::laughing: Looks like the big dog got off the porch.

I guess my concerns were ....... the window at the beginning and end, how small of gold and how high of a K. Then..... is there going to be a limited number produced. At that point will fisher set back and watch and possibly introduce a digital version before dealers get their hands on any of them. We are here to discuss whats been posted and alledged by fisher/JAG/Alexandre i believe. No one calls anyone a lier...... but what if they are just wrong?

Steve out of most of us on here you are more likely to grab some of that 24k stuff. Bottle caps....... where will bottle caps fall? Got to be right in the middle of all that gold id assume.
 
Sand Crab

Thank's, My Whites Surf Pi DF is working fine, that video on mostly nail's air tested , did less than than the DF would do, maybe because of the 12 with 6 inch in the middle , who know's, but i dug nail's close to the 2 foot mark in Ocean City Md . , after the peer came down , as far as buying another PI at my age digging 2 foot hole's, than having to fill them back up :shock:, with nothing to show for it :roll:, so the machine loses depth -with disc , :no:, just like anything else that does, no secret, i would rather use a VLF because if i do use a PI to reach under the replentishment sand , im not looking for nail's, if this machine loses depth in disc like Rick stated at 10% , it's not worth paying anymore than any other PI , at under 1200.00 buck's , the AQ had my hope's up, finally something to reach under the replentishment sand , and with a chance to find something good, however now , my money stay's in the bank , OBN keep a freeze on my headphones , until you test it 6 month's , ill take your word on the result's, if it turn's out, this machine is NO BIG DEAL, the skullies will be for the next ML generation , Im sure they are cooking something up wright now, another thing, as far as a superior nugget machine goes :shock: , i can't see them even matching ML in the future , or even NOW, i like Fisher , liked the F75 , however it's been in the closet , since the CTX3030, and the French machine- Deus , running Michelin tire's on my truck now, i like them , except they pick up the stone in my driveway:roll: , that being said , i will now PASS- on this machine , this thread will go down as one of the longest thread's , with everyone still shaking there head's , a machine that has , after all this time , never made it to any potential customer's hand's , good luck to all that choose to pull the trigger , Joe i look forward to your review's buddy , happy hunting everyone , Earl :thumbsup: PS DEW Shogun sniffed out something , something fishy :shock: :frustrated:
 

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19 June 2018, in post #19 to this thread (which has now reached #944), I wrote...

“ Time will tell. The discussion has reached a point where waiting for the results to reach the market is probably the best thing.”

I should have taken my own advice!! At that time I expected the AQ to reach the market in the following spring - 2019. It didn’t and isn’t here yet.

My latest punishment for not taking my own advice has now been that I had to read the nearly 2000 words which Sandcrab posted above. He raised a lot of questions but it was pretty hard to figure what some of them really were.

The bottom line seems to be that he is sure that the AQ will be no better than what he already has. He may be right, but since he has decided that he isn’t getting one, he will have to rely on reports on this forum of folks like OBN who have indicated that they will be getting one.
 
Lytle78

OBN has changed his mind in the past , no deal is done till the cash hit's your account , good's recieved , OBN - Ring Daddy , is up 21 gold this year, with his modified Excalibur's , 125 gold 2019 , Sand Crab doesn't post much , but these guy's are considered pros, in my opinion, i also don't think Joe's going to STOP swinging an Excalibur- finding gold just about everytime he goes out , just to test- this machine :lol: , I know Joe, even if he get's a >freebee ,from Fisher , doesn't matter , what matter's to Joe is GOLD , we will see, this year, next year , guess it doesn't matter much anymore , since Fisher -didn't bring it, they have plenty time for improvement's , how about 0 depth loss in disc, with a lighted ID screen, a coil switch out option, with a 10 hour battery life , 2 foot plus depth , cause i get 20 inches on nail's -with my DF :shock: , happy nugget hunting , i was alway's interested in nugget hunting, just don't live in the wright part of the US , take care , Earl
 
It’s still will it or won’t it at this point.... until someone proves it’s worth with a machine that all bless for us to get and use. It in fact may not be as capable as tested... we have seen that happen as well. Dumb it down so the average user can handle it. Final product will tell. I noticed you over looked my question about distribution.

I suspect me and Joe could have different outcomes just because of conditions and gold weight/size/K.
 
Way too many conflicting and contradictory statements here from what I've read. It's just not clear to me. It allegedly picks up gold. But it's not for nugget hunting. It may not pickup big gold rings on the surface of black sand. Bottlecaps and bobby pins will still be an issue. What about other aluminum bits ? Yeah right.
Maybe a good machine for the Backstreet Backeast Boys who hunt in primitive gold fish bowls. But here in So.Cal , we rely on heavy surf and erosion. The bulk of old heavy deep gold is gone except maybe some pockets in the protected bays. Occasionally pieces are found but not consistently.
And finally , you go buy an analog machine only to find 1 year later after you've settled in , here comes the digital version. Kinda hard to get any straight forward answers. Gives the impression of being shifty. People who can't look you in the eye and give a firm handshake are suspect to me. After reading my own comment before I hit post , it is now clear to me.Been using a PI forever and will stick with it.
 
Until Fisher (FTP) marketing decide on and publicize how it will be distributed, we will know nothing concrete.

In the US, would be very surprised if they didn’t offer it by direct purchase on their online store. Beyond that, there are various alternatives. Have a look at FTP detectors at Amazon. Amazon sells these directly - which means FTP is selling to Amazon. Right now the F75 on Amazon Prime says 19 in stock and more on the way.

As far as dealers, I’m not sure that that model would be the first choice for early production. The price and newness to market might make them cautious and not product very large numbers - certainly not in the thousands a month range that their other products get.

I have told them that I want to be a dealer for the Impulse line of machines - starting with the AQ. They haven’t told me to forget about it, so I have hope that this will happen.

As far as Fisher promoting their machine, I expect that they will have videos, a revamped webpage etc. What else they have planned I know not. I also expect it to be heavily promoted in Europe.

In most places outside the US, they would likely go with their established distribution channels via authorized distributors and dealers.
 
My understanding is most pi detectors have two samples sequentially at a start time set by the pulse delay control . These are followed by a final sample for a ground balance comparison level. If you move the delay out you lose differentiation between target sample average and the GB sample. So is that the loss spoken of here with the AQ when in discriminate mode? If you turn off GB you are left with the two sample pulses that are normally averaged through an integrator circuit. You then compare this average with a threshold setting level for the detect audio. Now to discriminate, looking at typical target decay times/profiles, from the end of transmit ferrous targets decay longer. The key thing appears to be that a small gold target and a large gold target both decay the same - but their average amplitude differ according to size. So you need higher gain for smaller gold but if you go over ferrous targets, larger gold target, or sand, the input will saturate. All this the TDI and perhaps others solve these hazards. The thing that puzzles me is the gold ring on top of nails test. I’d think the nails signal would swamp the gold signal. I asked for scope photos of gold on top of nails on Geotech and really hardly anyone had anything but eventually there were a few. It seems when the two are combined the start of the target profile is delayed a bit. That’s the only thing I see to go with and it would take a lot of experimentation to come up with a circuit to achieve reliable target discrimination for this scenario....
 
It’s still will it or won’t it at this point.... until someone proves it’s worth with a machine that all bless for us to get and use. It in fact may not be as capable as tested... we have seen that happen as well. Dumb it down so the average user can handle it. Final product will tell. I noticed you over looked my question about distribution.

I suspect me and Joe could have different outcomes just because of conditions and gold weight/size/K.

It's going to be interesting when the time comes.

:popcorn:
 
Here we set.......:waiting: I guess the reality is ...... Marketing hasnt even confirmed this machine is coming have they? Not a thing on the website...... yet we have beat this around with those IN THE KNOW and the designer. Were we all having a brain storm moment? Nearly 2 1/2 years ..... and then ... its in production.... oh wait.... maybe not... Houston we have a problem. So is it or isnt it in production? Is the world situation going to cause more delays? Im NOT skeptical of the machine...... but boy who ever the engineer of this train is needs to come back and let us passengers know something. Since no one is taking credit for being a spokes person... then i guess Fisher itsself isnt giving us any information. This isn’t the first machine Fisher has ever produced.... as a niche machine it sure seems to be a serious challenge to get out.
 
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Here we set.......:waiting: I guess the reality is ...... Marketing hasnt even confirmed this machine is coming have they? Not a thing on the website...... yet we have beat this around with those IN THE KNOW and the designer. Were we all having a brain storm moment? Nearly 2 1/2 years ..... and then ... its in production.... oh wait.... maybe not... Houston we have a problem. So is it or isnt it in production? Is the world situation going to cause more delays? Im NOT skeptical of the machine...... but boy who ever the engineer of this train is needs to come back and let us passengers know something. Since no one is taking credit for being a spokes person... then i guess Fisher itsself isnt giving us any information. This isn’t the first machine Fisher has ever produced.... as a niche machine it sure seems to be a serious challenge to get out.

I think they missed their window... with the markets they way they are and this virus plus the panic surrounding both I don't see it coming out until after both are resolved... you have good detectors use them... stop worrying about whether this thing comes out.
 
F Dutchman

Never pulled the trigger on a ATX , herd it was a good machine, if only they could down size the land mine tank look, something like Fisher did with this AQ whenever we see it , Noone wants to swing a bulky , heavy machine all day digging 2 foot hole's , not to mention the ATX tones that I've herd, a bit annoying , but yes being Fisher didn't break this machine out when promised , I see ML breaking a PI machine out before the AQ hits the market , plenty windows of opportunity here , as Fisher left the door open :shock::shock::shock::jawdrop: , if ML breaks out a new pi , or Whites minus the 1970s box with knob's sticking out -style , I might jump on them next , as this waiting, not breaking out this machine - I was waiting for SO LONG- evolved into a huge disapointment . :facepalm:
 
By reading around on some other forums, unit appears release wise not to be imminent. Even read 6 more months could pass and still no release.
 
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Dave -your thread

Congrat's on probably the longest thread in the history of the forum , leaving us all scratching our head's :lol: :friends::shrug::hmmm::scared::crazy::clap::confused::gaah::stormy::surrender: It was a dream that didn't come true :no::laughing:
 
The 6 months item was posted by Carl Moreland on the “H” forum. He is right - it might be 6 months, it also might be 1 month (I’m not betting on the latter). At this point Nobody knows and they won’t until the go-ahead with full-scale production is given by Tom Walsh - the CEO. Tom is a careful and meticulous guy and it’s his company - no shareholders breathing down his neck or analysts commenting on the stock price or P/E ratio.

If he had already done that, a planned release date would be out.
 
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