Tom_in_CA
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So that we can collectively all be aware and stop the vicious circle/cycle from repeating elsewhere.
NYC Metal Detecting Permit
- Thread starter BennyV
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So that we can collectively all be aware and stop the vicious circle/cycle from repeating elsewhere.
I think you should personally contact Governor Cuomo
Its been in a effect for many years... don't bother me any...
HistoryHippy
Senior Member
When Deblatherson turns NYC into a smoking crater how long will you wait to get a permission slip?
Tom_in_CA
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I think you should personally contact Governor Cuomo
haha, right. So that we can draw EVEN MORE attention to ourselves ? Sure
HistoryHippy
Senior Member
Why is it in effect at all?
What I'm asking is what brought about the reason(s) for a permit?
Where there masked metal detecting muggers?
Are there reasons for needing to know a bunch of information about mdrs?
It might not bother you but it bothers me.
I totally understand if theres clear prohibitions on mding. I get it.
What I don't understand is how many mdrs think this is normal and a good idea.
What I'm asking is what brought about the reason(s) for a permit?
Where there masked metal detecting muggers?
Are there reasons for needing to know a bunch of information about mdrs?
It might not bother you but it bothers me.
I totally understand if theres clear prohibitions on mding. I get it.
What I don't understand is how many mdrs think this is normal and a good idea.
The question is irrelevant... no one probably knows... I think it is what it is... these cities can and do what they want.
You can debate all you want. As much as I didn’t want to do it I applied to do things legally. I’m not a politician and I can’t tell you how things work in Frog Balls, Arkansas, etc...All I know is that if you don’t want to get hassled detecting in a NYC park you need the permit.
Tom_in_CA
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Well, yes, it's "irrelevant" as-to-whether or not it currently exists. And is currently required by md'rs in those exact locales. Yes, In that sense it's "irrelevant".
But it *is* relevant for our hobby to understand WHY these things come about in the first place. And I disagree that "no one probably knows". While I agree that there will be disagreements about the various genesis of each exact place , yet it *does* deserve scrutiny . So as to keep it from occurring elsewhere, going forward. In that sense, yes it's a relevant discussion.
And you would be surprised how many newbies do indeed read about these very limited places where it exists (it's actually very rare, but yes, a few cities dreamed it up). And when the newbies hear and read about such things, guess what they're inclined to do ?
And Yes, those cities can "do what they want". But the question is: WHY did they "WANT" to do that in the first place ?
Tom_in_CA
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Nobody is disputing that.
HistoryHippy
Senior Member
Almost to the answer Cmfct.
The powers that be do whatever they want because they use instruments of fear.
Because we the great unwashed are afraid.
Because we the plebs want to please.
Because we the idios want to be obedient.
The powers that be do whatever they want because they use instruments of fear.
Because we the great unwashed are afraid.
Because we the plebs want to please.
Because we the idios want to be obedient.
Tom_in_CA
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Hippy, here's where I think I differ from you : I am not 'dissing govt. as "big and bad". I am not "afraid". I do, in fact, want to please the govt. I do, in fact, feel that people should be obedient to the govt.
So my rant is not about "big bad govt.". They're only doing their job. And we actually live in the greatest free-est most prosperous country on the planet in a lot of ways. So I'm not bashing the govt.
None of them sat in an ivory tower somewhere and thought "Gee, who am I going to bug today, to tamper with their freedoms. HHhhmmm, let's harass md'rs today ". That is not the genesis of a lot of supposed "no's" or "permits", when it comes to our hobby. I have nothing but respect for govt., LEO's, etc.... They're just people like you and me, trying to reign in chaos, live their lives, do their jobs, etc....
Bill_Ace_350
Elite Member
A few scenarios-
Hunt with a permit in jurisdictions requiring permits.
Knowingly hunt in jurisdictions requiring permits without a permit.
Hunt in jurisdictions requiring permits without a permit,! because you weren't aware of the requirement.
Don't hunt in jurisdictions requiring permits without a permit because you feel they are unnecessary/unwarranted,! whatever....
Hunt with a permit in jurisdictions requiring permits.
Knowingly hunt in jurisdictions requiring permits without a permit.
Hunt in jurisdictions requiring permits without a permit,! because you weren't aware of the requirement.
Don't hunt in jurisdictions requiring permits without a permit because you feel they are unnecessary/unwarranted,! whatever....
HistoryHippy
Senior Member
I get what you're saying Tom. I have respect for people doing their jobs. Be it LEOs or whatever job they do.
What I'm getting at is how they use that power.
LEOs have way bigger fish to fry other than mdrs. Yet someone somehow sends them. Permit or not the mdr is faced with fear of arrest, fear of confiscation of their metal detector, or the worst a "scram". My point is not who's afraid of the big bad wolf? But... Who made the wolf so big and bad?
Like you said if researched hard enough you can find mdr horror stories.
I think more often than not we the mding community scares itself to permits and all out prohibitions.
For one we ask someone who has the " power" and get a no even with nothing in writing. The no one cared until asked. Then came a prohibition.
Second some self appointed public property guard called in sending a cop. Everyone flips out.
No mding.
Then nobody mds. So the bottle caps, tin foil, and pull tabs are piling up. The powers that be need a solution.... "Ya know Marty the parks weren't waist deep in junk when we had mdrs. But we had to ban them because crazy Lois kept calling. Then those persistent emails and phone calls we kept getting from those guys about can we pleeeaaase blah blah stopped. We can't keep hiring and paying benefits to the litter getters. Hmmmm Marty I've got it permits! City issued permits. Get city council on the phone! We'll dream up some sort of scary penalties harras a few of them. They'll all come running giving us all kinds of information about themselves."
No thanks.
What I'm getting at is how they use that power.
LEOs have way bigger fish to fry other than mdrs. Yet someone somehow sends them. Permit or not the mdr is faced with fear of arrest, fear of confiscation of their metal detector, or the worst a "scram". My point is not who's afraid of the big bad wolf? But... Who made the wolf so big and bad?
Like you said if researched hard enough you can find mdr horror stories.
I think more often than not we the mding community scares itself to permits and all out prohibitions.
For one we ask someone who has the " power" and get a no even with nothing in writing. The no one cared until asked. Then came a prohibition.
Second some self appointed public property guard called in sending a cop. Everyone flips out.
No mding.
Then nobody mds. So the bottle caps, tin foil, and pull tabs are piling up. The powers that be need a solution.... "Ya know Marty the parks weren't waist deep in junk when we had mdrs. But we had to ban them because crazy Lois kept calling. Then those persistent emails and phone calls we kept getting from those guys about can we pleeeaaase blah blah stopped. We can't keep hiring and paying benefits to the litter getters. Hmmmm Marty I've got it permits! City issued permits. Get city council on the phone! We'll dream up some sort of scary penalties harras a few of them. They'll all come running giving us all kinds of information about themselves."
No thanks.
Well, yes, it's "irrelevant" as-to-whether or not it currently exists. And is currently required by md'rs in those exact locales. Yes, In that sense it's "irrelevant".
But it *is* relevant for our hobby to understand WHY these things come about in the first place. And I disagree that "no one probably knows". While I agree that there will be disagreements about the various genesis of each exact place , yet it *does* deserve scrutiny . So as to keep it from occurring elsewhere, going forward. In that sense, yes it's a relevant discussion.
And you would be surprised how many newbies do indeed read about these very limited places where it exists (it's actually very rare, but yes, a few cities dreamed it up). And when the newbies hear and read about such things, guess what they're inclined to do ?
And Yes, those cities can "do what they want". But the question is: WHY did they "WANT" to do that in the first place ?
You think it may not be true the website is clearly put out by the city of New York...
You just love doing what you questioning everything it cracks me up...
Do you dream about permissions laws or rules or have mind chatter trying to fall asleep?
Tom_in_CA
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Cfmct, why do you keep thinking that I'm disputing that it exists ? No one is disputing the various (rare) places where such a thing exists. We all agree it exists, and that md'rs in those specific locales now need them. So why do you keep thinking I'm disputing that ?
HistoryHippy
Senior Member
They exist. For what reason? Other than tracking and keeping LEOs and such at bay. I want to get at how this all started.
We as a community don't want this spreading like a governmental disease. Next it will be pay to play. A metal detecting tax if you will.
Now some will say what about hunting and fishing licenses. Well that money goes to wildlife management. I understand that so we all can enjoy those sports.
Mdrs I have honestly never even paid attention or seen one until I started the hobby.
How far will we fall. Taxing zincolns? Where will the money go. Definitely not in restocking the parks like fish.
We as a community don't want this spreading like a governmental disease. Next it will be pay to play. A metal detecting tax if you will.
Now some will say what about hunting and fishing licenses. Well that money goes to wildlife management. I understand that so we all can enjoy those sports.
Mdrs I have honestly never even paid attention or seen one until I started the hobby.
How far will we fall. Taxing zincolns? Where will the money go. Definitely not in restocking the parks like fish.
Absolutely , without question would pass it up. Permits always come with a catch . And these days everyone should be concerned about giving any information to anyone unless absolutely necessary. But that’s just me ....
Usually I can accept what you say and not to get philosophical but government’s method of controlling people is through things like permits . And once government takes things away they are never returned . And people in government do sit in Ivory Towers every day to think of ways to control freedoms and these controls are called “Regulations “ and a permit is just another regulation. Just watch the next couple of years if you want to see how the Ivory Tower types tamper with your freedoms.The “permit” officials will be tracking your finds so they can value them and tax them to pay for more entitlements ; only kidding , I think
Tom_in_CA
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Usually I can accept what you say and not to get philosophical but government’s method of controlling people is through things like permits . And once government takes things away they are never returned . And people in government do sit in Ivory Towers every day to think of ways to control freedoms and these controls are called “Regulations “ and a permit is just another regulation. Just watch the next couple of years if you want to see how the Ivory Tower types tamper with your freedoms.The “permit” officials will be tracking your finds so they can value them and tax them to pay for more entitlements ; only kidding , I think
Hey there gas-pipe, I enjoyed your post. I won't delve into politics and power and greed, and all the stuff you've said, AS FAR AS IT RELATES TO OTHER ACTIVITIES. Except to say that in the case of THIS discussion (md'ing, and permits in some rare places that ever dreamed them up), is NOT a "power grab". Trust me, they're not making any money off whatever minuscule fee these particular "permits" cost. And trust me : No one is out there enforcing (or cares) about the fine -print on the back of the card (eg.: turn in all objects of value to the park office, blah blah, digger tool shall not exceed 3" in length, blah blah).
So for at least md'ing, no, the reason was not someone's sinister desire to "control our lives".
randy
Forum Supporter
I'll try to stay out of the philosophy, and just tell a boring story.
I played it by the book and got a permit to detect a very large park in Brooklyn. I forget the name, but I imagine people who live there know the park.
I started early, and the park was quite crowded. I had no less than 10 civilians come up to me and ask if I had a permit. So, if you do not have a permit, you will deal with that hassle. In those days, cell phones were less common; in these days, I guarantee someone sends a text to law enforcement. People are busybodies, at least at this park.
As for the detecting, I found only 2 oldies, a shield nickel and a two center in the same hole. Not even a wheatie. I did find a mountain of clad; by far a daily record, over $26, and I try not to dig clad. No silver, but a friend did find a walker.
I played it by the book and got a permit to detect a very large park in Brooklyn. I forget the name, but I imagine people who live there know the park.
I started early, and the park was quite crowded. I had no less than 10 civilians come up to me and ask if I had a permit. So, if you do not have a permit, you will deal with that hassle. In those days, cell phones were less common; in these days, I guarantee someone sends a text to law enforcement. People are busybodies, at least at this park.
As for the detecting, I found only 2 oldies, a shield nickel and a two center in the same hole. Not even a wheatie. I did find a mountain of clad; by far a daily record, over $26, and I try not to dig clad. No silver, but a friend did find a walker.
