Myers Depot Metal Detectors

Living in a "No Dig" town

TroJanClan

TroJanClan

New Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2017
Messages
11
Location
Mankato, Mn
Does anybody else live in a town with ordinances like this and how do you deal with it. So far I have stuck to my backyard, permissions, and public property with beaches and sand like volley ball courts, but haven't found much.

Sec. 14.03. - Prohibited Conduct Generally.
It shall be unlawful for any person in a public park or recreation area to:

Subd. 2. Dig or remove any soil, rock, sand, stones, trees, shrubs or plants or other wood or materials, or make any excavation by tool, equipment, blasting or other means or agency.

Subd. 4. Damage, cut, carve, mark, transplant or remove any plant, or injure the bark, or pick flowers or seed of any tree or plant, dig in or otherwise disturb grass areas, or in any other way injure the natural beauty or usefulness of any area.


The town I work in is even worse:

Sec. 32-23. - Unlawful acts.
It is unlawful for any person in any park to engage in any of the following prohibited conduct:

(3)
Dig, or remove any sand, whether submerged or not, or any soil or other materials, or make any excavation by any means;
(4)
Damage, cut, carve, transplant, or remove any tree or plant, or injure the bark, or pick the flowers or seeds, of any tree or plant. A person shall not dig in or otherwise disturb grass areas, or in any other way injure or impair the natural beauty or usefulness of any area;

Both towns are historically significant to MN. Would love to get into some of that public ground...What do I do!
 
My town has signs like that also, but 'they've' never messed with me when I'm detecting these places. I suppose the rulz don't apply to me? :cool:
 
I read an interesting article yesterday concerning the sheer amount of Laws in this Country...Between Federal State and Local laws that are punishable with imprisonment...100,000 plus and climbing!...Said the average American is GUILTY of committing THREE felonies on a daily basis just going about normal life and doesnt even know it!...

so hey, go get you some!

And if the worst thing happens, and you find yourself in an interesting cage, and somebody asks..."What are ya in here for Boy?" ...Better not say "Metal Detecting" :laughing:

Say instead, "I was in the Park looking to stab a Barber, bag a Walker, or nail myself an Old Indian fatty!":laughing:
 
Mud-puppy said:
I read an interesting article yesterday concerning the sheer amount of Laws in this Country...Between Federal State and Local laws that are punishable with imprisonment...100,000 plus and climbing!...Said the average American is GUILTY of committing THREE felonies on a daily basis just going about normal life and doesnt even know it!...

so hey, go get you some!

And if the worst thing happens, and you find yourself in an interesting cage, and somebody asks..."What are ya in here for Boy?" ...Better not say "Metal Detecting" :laughing:

Say instead, "I was in the Park looking to stab a Barber, bag a Walker, or nail myself an Old Indian fatty!":laughing:
Click to expand...

I'm still wondering why politicians campaign on passing more laws instead of repealing the ones we don't need. The U.S. ceased to be free a long time ago. It is becoming a place where citizens are just ATMs for the government to withdraw money from. Aside from the 2nd Amendment which is hit and miss in the U.S. nowadays depending on where you live there isn't much to make the country exceptional regarding freedom. I do hope it changes because I would like to go back home sometime in the next few years.
 
"Dig, or remove any sand, whether submerged or not, or any soil or other materials, or make any excavation by any means"

What, so you're not allowed to make a sandcastle at a playground?! That's just bs...

The council next to mine, has written in their local law that it is illegal to (without a permit) to "cut, break, injure, deface, pull up, pick, remove, or destroy any tree, shrub, flower, grass or plant of any kind on local government property".

So to overcome this, I use a tent-peg (as a probe) and my pinpointer to retrieve shallow targets (1-2in). Any deeper targets that I really want to dig, I always make sure no one is watching me, then I quickly dig the plug, put the shovel away and then quickly locate the object. IMO, if you can you do this without being caught and you leave no evidence behind, you should be fine.
But make sure no one is watching, and if the park is busy, then either stick to shallow targets or come back later.
 
TroJanClan said:
I have thought about getting a coin probe and just carry a trowel with me for the more pristine part of the parks.
Click to expand...

Yeah, a probe and pinpointer will definitely be your best friend in the parks of those towns.

But to be on the safe side, I'd go in low-traffic times, such as in the early mornings or late evenings when not many people are around.
 
A Possible Solution

Morning All,

First an foremost as a thirty plus year detectorist I will once again weigh in and support laws such as this. We are a small segment of the overall population and parks belong to everyone and for all time. The law was designed I suspect, like many of these ordinances, to prevent people from digging up trees and wildflowers, collect rocks, take home topsoil they did not want to buy at the landscaping store etc. I can't say for sure but it is likely it predates metal detecting if the park is older.

Having said that I have run into situations like this in my area of the Midwest and have handled it by stopping in at the village hall and asking if it is permissible to detect at X park. The conversations have always been positive and my success rate is in the high 90 percent range.

Similarly years ago I had a neighbor call the police when they saw me detecting a sidewalk strip. I had permission from the owner (even though it is public right of way) and the incident turned out fine. From that day forward I have made a point of stopping at the local police department and touching base about what I plan to do.

I have never had a no and sometimes it has led to new permissions. The upshot is you have nothing to lose by being open, respecting the ordinances and explaining your wishes to the folks who have the responsibility for ordinances. Also remember to accept a no graciously. I have had the no followed by an offer to detect the no giver's house.

Good luck and enjoy the outdoors.

King of Clad
 
Springfield, Mo. has very similar laws, but they are happy to rent shelters for club hunts. One of our nicest parks was a Civil War camp. The first time I went there I thought my detector was broken. You can't find a pull tab it's been hit so hard. About every other hunt park employees ask about finds. Last week I ran into a couple of other diggers, the lawn crew said we were in the way so they were going to lunch. I was expecting a scram and would have gladly got out of their way.
There is only one way to find out if they enforce their rules. I guess it depends on your sense of adventure. The worst that can happen here would be a ticket, but I doubt that would happen if you just said "sorry I didn't know, Mudpuppy said it was OK".
 
The parks in the county that I live in have the same rules. I've only every had one person talk to me about it, which is why I know about it. I only coin pop on the grass as these are all new parks anyway and try to keep to the sand/mulch but I've never had anyone else say boo to me. Coin probes are your friend. Frankly I like it better and use it even when I can dig.

BCD
 
TroJanClan, welcome to FMDF

TroJanClan said:
Does anybody else live in a town with ordinances like this and how do you deal with it. So far I have stuck to my backyard, permissions, and public property with beaches and sand like volley ball courts, but haven't found much.

Sec. 14.03. - Prohibited Conduct Generally.
It shall be unlawful for any person in a public park or recreation area to:

Subd. 2. Dig or remove any soil, rock, sand, stones, trees, shrubs or plants or other wood or materials, or make any excavation by tool, equipment, blasting or other means or agency.

Subd. 4. Damage, cut, carve, mark, transplant or remove any plant, or injure the bark, or pick flowers or seed of any tree or plant, dig in or otherwise disturb grass areas, or in any other way injure the natural beauty or usefulness of any area.


The town I work in is even worse:

Sec. 32-23. - Unlawful acts.
It is unlawful for any person in any park to engage in any of the following prohibited conduct:

(3)
Dig, or remove any sand, whether submerged or not, or any soil or other materials, or make any excavation by any means;
(4)
Damage, cut, carve, transplant, or remove any tree or plant, or injure the bark, or pick the flowers or seeds, of any tree or plant. A person shall not dig in or otherwise disturb grass areas, or in any other way injure or impair the natural beauty or usefulness of any area;....
Click to expand...

If everything you've cited automatically precludes md'ing (we "dig" after all), then .... just give up. Because I got news for ya: It's not just those cities/codes you listed/cited. It's EVERY city across the entire USA. They all have some variation of "alter", "deface", "remove", "harvest", "dig", etc....

So you'll either need to take up a different hobby, or stick to private property, eh? Yet ... oddly .... if you look through the show & tell finds forums, you see ample posts of people (gasp) finding objects on public land. How can this be ? :wow:

It is as kingofClad says:

KingofClad said:
.... The law was designed I suspect, like many of these ordinances, to prevent people from digging up trees and wildflowers, collect rocks, take home topsoil they did not want to buy at the landscaping store etc. I can't say for sure but it is likely it predates metal detecting if the park is older.....
Click to expand...

But *could* it apply to md'ing ? SURE ! Stand on one foot, squint hard, ask a bunch of bored desk-bound pencil pushers, wear neon orange and waltz over beach blankets @ crowded days, etc.. Then sure: Someone will say it applies.

However, if you leave no trace (such that you haven't defacED or alterED anything), then ... seems to me you've fulfilled the intent. If it still bothers you that not everyone will agree with those semantics, then you've chosen the wrong hobby (or stick to private property). You are simply not going to please every last person on earth.

Just go at low traffic times, avoid lookie-lous, and presto, problem solved .
 
Scooterjim said:
Springfield, Mo. has very similar laws, but they are happy to rent shelters for club hunts. One of our nicest parks was a Civil War camp. The first time I went there I thought my detector was broken. You can't find a pull tab it's been hit so hard. About every other hunt park employees ask about finds. Last week I ran into a couple of other diggers, the lawn crew said we were in the way so they were going to lunch. I was expecting a scram and would have gladly got out of their way.
There is only one way to find out if they enforce their rules. I guess it depends on your sense of adventure.

The worst that can happen here would be a ticket,
but I doubt that would happen if you just said "sorry I didn't know, Mudpuppy said it was OK".
Click to expand...

:laughing::laughing::laughing:

.....and if they ask "who is Mudpuppy ?"

......just give a look of utter astonishment :shock: and say....

"you mean you've never heard of Mudpuppy, the sage of metal detecting, the professor of profound platitudes, the scholar of scavenging, the....." :laughing::laughing::laughing:
 
If it's a park I'm digging in it! I don't look up what idiotic laws have been passed concerning the park before I do...... I just do it. I pay far too much in taxes to have some weak kneed bureacrap tell me what i can and cant do in an area that my tax dollars pay for.
 
Well I for one am happy my local cities doesn't use the specific No Dig in the wording. To me, that term trumps defacing and altering, and gives any complainer or legal enforcer the tool to jump on anyone seen poking at the ground. The cop will logically take your identification as a matter of record the first time. Caught a second time...I'd sweat some bullets that I might be successfully prosecuted.

I had an experience in an adjacent city, a cop appeared, he admitted there were no visable holes, AND he event commented we were helping areate the soil. Our IDs were taken. He left to supposedly check the ordinances. He asked if he could get a cell phone number to get back to us.

We gave one, and got a call later with a short statement, "No digging." That was all! I noticed the police cruiser minutes later at the only pavillion with people.

We got shut down by a public citizen simply not liking what we were doing, not because of any "No Digging" clause. I fully read the ordinances many times.

I don't hunt that city anymore, simply due to the fact my ID was on record there.

Push comes to shove, us metal detectors are "Red headed step children" :mad:
 
My ex-brother-in-law used to be on the local police department. He said it they wanted to stop someone all they had to do was follow them for about a block and they would break one of the hundreds of laws on the books, most unknown to the common citizen.
 
Martin_V3i said:
Well I for one am happy my local cities doesn't use the specific No Dig in the wording. To me, that term trumps defacing and altering, .....
Click to expand...

Martin: Yes, if the word "dig" appears in park rules, then that seems to give md'rs more of the willies than if the terms were "alter" and "deface". Why is that ?

Because logically, if you leave no trace, then you haven't alterED or defacED anything. RIGHT ? It's just inferred that the terms apply to the END result. Right ?

Then ... I know this is a stretch, but why can't the word "dig" have the same logic ? Dig vs dug IS THE SAME LOGIC AS ALTER vs ALTERED They are both merely present vs past tense. The only difference is that we don't say "digged". Merely a spelling issue. But the logic is identical.

Just go at lower traffic times when any such griper isn't around. It's gotten to where I do most of my manicured turf at night nowadays. So peaceful. So serene.
 
All such "alter" "deface" catch-all language (and even "dig") is sort of like noise ordinance laws: Meant to be employed IN CASE OF COMPLAINT. Vague enough to be implemented in case of someone being a true nuisance. But otherwise, .... no one cares.

I work with street sweepers and backpack blowers . Which, technically, violate noise ordinances. Said to be in effect after 10pm in all cities around us, within city limits. But we just coordinate our routes to be done with sensitive areas prior to that curfew. And then work in the commercial /industrial areas of town (away from residential) after those hours.

But technically, since we are still in the city limits, the noise-ordinance decibel limit still applies. It's just that no one's around to be bothered. Hence no one's following us around with decibel measuring equipment. Common sense logic would tell you that's ok then, right ? Yet *technically* it's not.

In a way, md'ing is kind of like that too, IMHO. Just avoid gripers, give lip service now and then, etc.... You're simply NOT going to get red carpets rolled out from everyone on earth, for an odd-ball hobby like this.
 
Martin_V3i said:
.... We got shut down by a public citizen simply not liking what we were doing, not because of any "No Digging" clause. I fully read the ordinances many times. ....
Click to expand...

Correct. MD'rs can fret themselves silly , dancing around wording technicalities all they want. Heck, they can even go get a pencil-pusher's ok from city hall. BUT I WILL NOT STOP SOMEONE ELSE from finding fault, and shutting you down, if they want.

There has been AMPLE posts of people who worried themselves silly about catch-all wording, so they went to get "permission". Sounds like a great idea, eh ? Lo & behold an irate gardener (or whomever) having a bad hair day comes up to gripe. The md'r proudly whips out their "permission". Only to have it promptly revoked. And sent away as if they were a criminal.

SO AGAIN: if you're going to work nicely manicured turf, then think of it as a little like nose-picking: NOT ILLEGAL, but ... for pete's sake, don't we ALL sort of use ... uh ... discreet timing so as not to offend skittish people ?

If the lack-of-red-carpets being rolled out isn't to the liking of an md'r, then they're better off sticking to sand-boxes, beaches, or private property.
 
Tom_in_CA said:
Martin: Yes, if the word "dig" appears in park rules, then that seems to give md'rs more of the willies than if the terms were "alter" and "deface". Why is that ?

Because logically, if you leave no trace, then you haven't alterED or defacED anything. RIGHT ? It's just inferred that the terms apply to the END result. Right ?

Then ... I know this is a stretch, but why can't the word "dig" have the same logic ? Dig vs dug IS THE SAME LOGIC AS ALTER vs ALTERED They are both merely present vs past tense. The only difference is that we don't say "digged". Merely a spelling issue. But the logic is identical.

Just go at lower traffic times when any such griper isn't around. It's gotten to where I do most of my manicured turf at night nowadays. So peaceful. So serene.
Click to expand...

Why is that? Because being seen actually digging is breaking the ordinance since "dig" is in the documentation. It's a moot point if the ground is then put back in place, if push comes to shove. I don't feel we could squirm our way out of it in front of a judge.
 
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