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Xtreme Titanium Scoop Fail (update 12/8)

Wow Ruslan ! This makes total sense now. I kinda thought in my mind I was 1 hair below scoop expert (another thrread). I've had so many over the years. I never saw your threads of the past regarding titanium. I thought John had told me he heat treats it during the building/welding process. My understanding is it's a special treatment/room AFTER it's made. And that it's very expensive. Thanks for your info Stavr. As I now know I'm not truly a scoop expert !
Yes, the right titanium alloy for Ti scoop, after cutting, welding, bending, has to go through 3 heat treatment cycles and it is an inert gas sealed furnace.
find out the cost of this operation in the USA and you will be pleasantly surprised ... (even here in Ukraine it is very expensive, and mainly turbine blades and other parts for space and aviation are heat treated there)

I'll tell you more .... that the front nose of the scoop must be of martensite! no matter the titanium alloy is applied to the scoop or stainless steel !!! ask which of the manufacturers uses martensite? ;)
Ruslan.
 
Martensite ? Do your Stavr scoops have that ? I googled it. To much for this dummy to understand. The more I know , the more I don't want to know. I don't need to dig on Mars ! Just some hard sand on So.Cal beaches. I didn't even use this in rocks , I was afraid because of the cost. And it's such a lightweight beautiful scoop. I am a realist. Only expecting it to last 6 years , not 6 months. Buy a quality SS scoop my friends , and cheaper.
 
It would be interesting if we knew where you were digging, if you drag your scoop, why you think one side is wearing faster than the other and leaving a tip of metal on the one short side to the inside of the scoop. I just looked at my Ti X3 scoop and I do not see any wear with about 150 hours digging the New England beaches. Your post has me thinking that I should watch the tip closely. I personally know of others with SS Extreme scoops that have been replaced because of the digging conditions that are not as easy on a scoop as FL or CA beaches are. John has been great with the interactions with those in need of a warranty remedy. He seems to be interesting in knowing how a failure occurs and what to do to correct a production error, if indeed is a production related process that caused the failure.
 
What’s the difference between an extreme scoop and a stealth? Asking for a friend. Did original manufacturer double dip when he sold out or someone was stealing designs?
 
It would be interesting if we knew where you were digging, if you drag your scoop, why you think one side is wearing faster than the other and leaving a tip of metal on the one short side to the inside of the scoop. I just looked at my Ti X3 scoop and I do not see any wear with about 150 hours digging the New England beaches. Your post has me thinking that I should watch the tip closely. I personally know of others with SS Extreme scoops that have been replaced because of the digging conditions that are not as easy on a scoop as FL or CA beaches are. John has been great with the interactions with those in need of a warranty remedy. He seems to be interesting in knowing how a failure occurs and what to do to correct a production error, if indeed is a production related process that caused the failure.
Well... 1st off , where did I say one side is wearing differently ? If you look at some of my posts (as in this thread) I'm in So.Cal. I may have some pics of sand somewhere on here. We do have some rocky beaches , but again as stated before....this scoop hasn't been in. I noticed when I 1st got this scoop , the front tip/blade seemed kinda thin. Then getting a little thicker as it moved to the sides. I think it will be resolved in a good way and hopefully I can post a positive follow up on his warranty. But I also just talked to a friend who bought 2 of them. They were getting some rust. On titanium ! John apparently had said to scrub them with a wire brush and spray WD40 on them. My buddy will send me some pics. My friend is a retired Cop from LA and now runs a private investigation firm. I have no reason to doubt him.
 
You mean rust around the welds? I think the process of pickling is needed to prevent that.

I know a little about titanium scoops, I know I've broke two. Not Johns. One of my friends years ago set out to make beach scoops. He found there is no perfect scoop and everyone will break in time. Knowing he would have to stick behind his product for many years he decided best investing in getting a regular job. 10 year warranty is a long time specially for those who hunt regularly.

Me,.... I would only except a new scoop..My opinion , there is no way to repair that one and have the (advertised) strength and look of the original product.

Good Luck...Hope we hear something good.
 
You mean rust around the welds? I think the process of pickling is needed to prevent that.

I know a little about titanium scoops, I know I've broke two. Not Johns. One of my friends years ago set out to make beach scoops. He found there is no perfect scoop and everyone will break in time. Knowing he would have to stick behind his product for many years he decided best investing in getting a regular job. 10 year warranty is a long time specially for those who hunt regularly.

Me,.... I would only except a new scoop..My opinion , there is no way to repair that one and have the (advertised) strength and look of the original product.

Good Luck...Hope we hear something good.

Thanks OBN. I don't know what pickling is on a scoop. Can only imagine. My friends rust ? Idk where on the scoop yet. He brought this up only after I showed him my pics. He was like wow ! Uh ohhh...then told me a bit about his and the WD40 treatment. I have had alot of scoops. Some use for a short time and sell. Have made some $ on them , others I have lost $. Some just plain wear out or break. But I also hunt more than your average weekend warrior. Probably the best I ever had was one of chuck's SS scoops. Had it about 5 years before I sold it for more than I paid. Condition looked the same when I sold it as it did new. 1 scoop regret I have ! And yes , I don't think this can be properly repaired.
 
Have you tried a Stavr? Mine is holding up great, going on 10 years now, and the lip is still solid, nothing like that...
 
What’s the difference between an extreme scoop and a stealth? Asking for a friend. Did original manufacturer double dip when he sold out or someone was stealing designs?
just stole ...;)
both the name and design of Chuck, and the design and construction of Stavr ...
 
Martensite ? Do your Stavr scoops have that ? I googled it. To much for this dummy to understand. The more I know , the more I don't want to know. I don't need to dig on Mars ! Just some hard sand on So.Cal beaches. I didn't even use this in rocks , I was afraid because of the cost. And it's such a lightweight beautiful scoop. I am a realist. Only expecting it to last 6 years , not 6 months. Buy a quality SS scoop my friends , and cheaper.
I don’t say much ....;), but if I say that rarely ... even the pictures on my website were not of a clear quality to hide the nuances of a constructive solution .... :) but this did not stop everyone ... almost everyone will copy my constructive decision after 5 years ... (although I laughed at manufacturers from the USA and said that after 3 years your scoops would be like mine ... but it took about 5 years ... the moderators did not like this phrase forum and may have been cut ... but in 2010-2013 you can read my messages from those that remain ...)
now I am slowly going out of the scoop business and can say more ...
ps: yes, martensite ... like on your kitchen knives .... , not spoons ...;)
 
Have you tried a Stavr? Mine is holding up great, going on 10 years now, and the lip is still solid, nothing like that...



I have a Stavr FSA46 sold me I use it in my rocky spots Frank beefed up the lip big time and the handle... I save the Sunspot for mud and gravel.
 
What’s the difference between an extreme scoop and a stealth? Asking for a friend. Did original manufacturer double dip when he sold out or someone was stealing designs?


This is the Original Sunspot it was copied by the other guy even took the name... bush league in my opinion...
 

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This is the Original Sunspot it was copied by the other guy even took the name... bush league in my opinion...

This is why I bought the 950 from sunspot, more expensive but at least the company actually secured rights from chuck. Was a very ingenious solution to scoop construction and a unique one at that. Hard to overlook the similarities even though the “other guy” claims to have altered the design.
 
The truth hurts sometimes. I am glad to see there are those who know it. By the way I did not double dip. My design was copied....... I did not sell anything to that guy, just to the boys in LA.

Regards,
Chuck

Yes, thanks for coming aboard chuck. I learned of the issue when I was last scoop shopping. Decided to support sunspot after I had read previous threads on the subject. Cheers on your awesome design solutions!
 
btw , I guess your ok now ?

All good until I probably get it again some time as we probably ALL will. I don't recall the bozo's name. I called the # on the site and the guy picked up. Had a tv blaring, a baby crying. When I told him what happened and how ,Yes I was a HEAVY hunter meaning about 20 hrs a week and had the thing for about 2 1/2 months with receipt and that it failed and that i DIDNT hunt in the rocks and I wasn't prying on anything and I was in the compact wet sand when it failed he basically called me a liar.:shock:
After going round and round with him he told me to send it to his welder who was in Pennsylvania. I was in San Diego. If the welder deemed it repairable he would, if he deemed it their fault on workmanship they would repair. NEVER mention of a new scoop. Oh and btw, shipping to and from was on my dime regardless of outcome. SCREW THAT..... I gladly bash this company any chance I get. It's my public duty. Both sides split right on the welds
 

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He said he was sending it in , but than he found out he was out of town for the holidays , has only titanium scoop's available for now , guess he sold out of 304 & 316 , could be waiting for more material , hope everyone had a nice Thanksgiving , Earl. Update he's back and working on SS scoop's next week , might go dirt diving tomorrow Craig CTX3030:cool3:
 
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