Liability Issues, An Out For the Paranoid, Can we Provide Waivers?

PlasteredDragon

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This is an answer I'm so sick of hearing. "If you fall while walking across the lawn and hurt yourself, I'll be liable." Oh yeah, that happens all the time. Metal detecting is SOOO dangerous... I know one guy who sprained his thumb.

I'm not a litigious person and I wouldn't sue anyone because I tripped and hurt myself on their property. I think that's true of most detectorists.

I was wondering if it is possible to make a waiver form that you can offer to the landowner? Something like:

"I ______________ hereby grant full immunity to ______________ (the owner of the property at ______________________) and all of his/her associates, for any accidents or injuries that I might suffer while metal detecting on the aforementioned property.

Signed __________________________ Date ___________________"
 
Let me tell you why I think such a home-spun, or even a highly technical , "waiver" is a waste of time for such folks:

Anytime you hear someone say : "No because of liability concerns" : Trust me: They don't care about "liability concerns". It's just their polite way of saying "no". Simply because they don't want to be bothered.

I carry $1,000,000 liability policy on myself, since I'm self-employed with a company. And in the past, when some people brought up the liability song & dance, I'd gleefully chime in that I can have a certificate immediately in their hands, and add them on as additional insured, etc.... Thinking that this would address the impediment the JUST alluded to. Easy enough, right ? But nneeooohh, they STILL just say "no". Which is when I realized that it was nothing more than a polite way to say "no". Not a real concern about liability.
 
Besides what Tom said, it wouldn't be YOU suing them most likely but your own insurance company to try to get reimbursed for any payments they may have to make.

Let's say you tripped on your bucket of pull tabs and broke your leg. Hospital bill is, let's say 15,000 when all is said and done.

Your insurance company will pay the bill, but want to know who THEY can collect from.

You can't sign away their rights.
 
.....You can't sign away their rights.

And it wouldn't matter if you could. Because even if you could legally satisfy that remote contingency: You'd find out they don't care either way. It's just a polite way to say "no". :(
 
Presented with that line, the liability issue, I wouldn't waste my time. Just walk on. There's enough land out there and types of hunts it's not worth dealing with that issue. Walk on.
And what Tom said. Good luck Bud. HH.
 
I’ve had property owners tell me that some detectorists offer the waiver right up front. That’s the fastest way to scare an owner, when they may have given a “yes” in the first place.
 
I’ve had property owners tell me that some detectorists offer the waiver right up front. That’s the fastest way to scare an owner, when they may have given a “yes” in the first place.

Yes. I have to chuckle (or cringe) when I see md's muse over pre-fab fill-in-the-blank contracts. There's a few such templates that circulate on the net. And those should ONLY be used, if the property owner HIMSELF is asking for a contract. Otherwise, to show up at a total stranger's door, with a contract for them to sign, is the FASTEST way to get a "no". :roll: A smile & a handshake is fine.
 
Liability may not be on their mind , often it is not , and its not as if you are actually going to get hurt detecting on their property anyway. Usually once you bring up liability and a waiver then they think about it.. Liability isnt an issue , until you bring it ip , now for them to say yes is not a simple matter anymore , now they are involved , now they are concerned. Now its just easier to say no , its a win for them because they dont care , they just dont want any responsibility.
 
I have had to sign waivers for two campgrounds I hunt. I advised both of them if they find me hurt and unable to move, just bury me and tell everyone they never saw me.

Seriously though, this is one thing wrong with the world now. Too many folks looking for easy money with lawsuits. No diving boards at public pools, no swim platforms at public parks, No playground toys that you might get hurt on.

Boy scouts are not even allowed hatchets or knives anymore in some places. No 5 mile hike carrying a backpack. Even the 22 shooting ranges have closed down.

I have told my daughters in charge of my estate. IF I get killed metal detecting they better not sue anyone. I died doing what I loved. I have had a quality life.

But if I get hit by a boat and become propeller bait, I am sure lawyers will come out of the woodwork to make a third of a huge lawsuit and promise my 6 daughters free money.

You really hit a nerve with this topic. Parents want to put blame on anybody they can if their children get hurt instead of themselves for not raising them.

Other folks want the same thing. Free money if they can get it any way they can. We live in a sue happy world and it is only going to get worse.
 
Well stated ScubaDetector....I agree with everything you said, and of course we ALL pay the price in the form of higher insurance premiums.

I have had to sign waivers for two campgrounds I hunt. I advised both of them if they find me hurt and unable to move, just bury me and tell everyone they never saw me.

Seriously though, this is one thing wrong with the world now. Too many folks looking for easy money with lawsuits. No diving boards at public pools, no swim platforms at public parks, No playground toys that you might get hurt on.

Boy scouts are not even allowed hatchets or knives anymore in some places. No 5 mile hike carrying a backpack. Even the 22 shooting ranges have closed down.

I have told my daughters in charge of my estate. IF I get killed metal detecting they better not sue anyone. I died doing what I loved. I have had a quality life.

But if I get hit by a boat and become propeller bait, I am sure lawyers will come out of the woodwork to make a third of a huge lawsuit and promise my 6 daughters free money.

You really hit a nerve with this topic. Parents want to put blame on anybody they can if their children get hurt instead of themselves for not raising them.

Other folks want the same thing. Free money if they can get it any way they can. We live in a sue happy world and it is only going to get worse.
 
I have had to sign waivers for two campgrounds I hunt. I advised both of them if they find me hurt and unable to move, just bury me and tell everyone they never saw me.

Seriously though, this is one thing wrong with the world now. Too many folks looking for easy money with lawsuits. No diving boards at public pools, no swim platforms at public parks, No playground toys that you might get hurt on.

Boy scouts are not even allowed hatchets or knives anymore in some places. No 5 mile hike carrying a backpack. Even the 22 shooting ranges have closed down.

I have told my daughters in charge of my estate. IF I get killed metal detecting they better not sue anyone. I died doing what I loved. I have had a quality life.

But if I get hit by a boat and become propeller bait, I am sure lawyers will come out of the woodwork to make a third of a huge lawsuit and promise my 6 daughters free money.

You really hit a nerve with this topic. Parents want to put blame on anybody they can if their children get hurt instead of themselves for not raising them.

Other folks want the same thing. Free money if they can get it any way they can. We live in a sue happy world and it is only going to get worse.

Classic scuba writings.
 
Your original post gave you all the answers you need. "Most" wouldn't sue. A liability form drawn up on a napkin isn't going to hold up in court with all the loop holes. A property owner has a lot to lose and little to gain by allowing you to detect
 
I figure it's just a good idea to avoid dealings with folks who would require such a thing. They're usually just trying to tell you to take a leap without feeling like the bad guy. ;)

As a painting contractor that works in a couple hundred homes a year plus a bit of commercial work, I still go and do an in person estimate. I know how much the job will cost already after 22 years, I just need to "interview" potential customers to weed out paranoid pansies and just straight up terrible people. A little extra "PIMA" tax or run away from the nightmare job type of customer? :laughing:

Anyway, when potential treasure donors pull up the old "...oh, so sorry but for liability issues...blah blah" I stop them and say "At least just have the balls to say No, I don't want you detecting here." :D

There's too many tasty spots to dig goodies at to waste life dealing with these poor folks.

GL&HH!
 
Let me tell you why I think such a home-spun, or even a highly technical , "waiver" is a waste of time for such folks:

Anytime you hear someone say : "No because of liability concerns" : Trust me: They don't care about "liability concerns". It's just their polite way of saying "no". Simply because they don't want to be bothered.

I carry $1,000,000 liability policy on myself, since I'm self-employed with a company. And in the past, when some people brought up the liability song & dance, I'd gleefully chime in that I can have a certificate immediately in their hands, and add them on as additional insured, etc.... Thinking that this would address the impediment the JUST alluded to. Easy enough, right ? But nneeooohh, they STILL just say "no". Which is when I realized that it was nothing more than a polite way to say "no". Not a real concern about liability.


What carrier would add a homeowner as A/I for leisure/metal detecting purposes? I assume this is a GL policy?

You may have better luck offering to sign a "hold harmless agreement" instead of calling it a liability waiver. Same thing, but sounds better. I had permission to hunt an old farm house by a realty company and had to sign a waiver before they'd let me hunt.
 
.... to sign a "hold harmless agreement" instead of calling it a liability waiver. Same thing, but sounds better. I had permission to hunt an old farm house by a realty company and had to sign a waiver before they'd let me hunt.

Whatever legal hurdles are done ("hold harmless" versus "liability insurance", blah blah), is still the same thing: Usually just a polite way to say "no".

As for your example of where someone actually granted a "yes", once legal hurdles were signed: Yes, it's possible that someone really did want to say "yes", provided legal hoops were jumped through. I too had a single incident where my company policy, sent to a demolition Co. via fax, allowed me to hunt in an old town demolition site.

But those are the exceptions. Most of the time, when you hear the song and dance, it's just a polite way to say "no". And no amount of remediation (fulfilling their legality concerns) will change their answer.
 
I don't think it's always just a polite way to say no because most people aren't polite when you come randomly on to their property to bother them :)...in this day and age its more likely nobody wants to get sued and they're just telling you the truth. I'd wager lots of people just don't think there is any other option other than take the risk themselves or say no. The waiver can be a decent option.

I had to sign such a waiver when granted permission to hunt a private property which used to be an old baseball field.

A company down the street owned the property and while they were super amped and interested in the metal detecting idea they gave me the old ehhh i dunnooo i'd have to talk to the lawyers and what not sooo probably noooo.....

I offered to fax them a signed liability waiver and they became instantly and completely fine with it.

I don't think i'd offer this up front every time because it might turn some people off but if it gets you on that desired property, definitely offer it!
 
Thats why its best not to ask at all...Why worry the Property Owner with the thought of Liability and a possible suit?? Ya know, be respectful of other peoples feelings and just go hunt the place! Somebody show up here, knock on my door and want to hunt my property? Shove a liability waiver form for me to sign? Getdahellouttahere! :laughing: Some other guy just comes on in and gives it a sweep without my permission? No Problem! I like the cut of your Jib!:laughing:

I will add, Liability...In the Business World, as an Owner, Nowadays the absolute worst thing that can happen is for an employee to get hurt on the job...We have nightmares about it, just the thought about it happening is enough to pucker a sphincter...

'OSHA' is the Tlingit name for this modern demon....Used to be called ORCA..as in the Killer Whale?...Similar in form and effect...Big time predator riding in on a wave to slap around a baby seal and kill it damnably? Thats what OSHAs do nowadays......calamari sphincters with a clipboard and a badge...Its always the Bossmans fault too....never the damn dummy out in the surf...

Liability is one bad concept! A boss man can never relax! In order to get some sleep and not worry about losing everything to a lawsuit employee injury....Of course I've come up with a work around 'legality concept'...after much consideration to all the various legalities and reprisals, I hence forth submit this M-Pup liability avoiding strategy for your use or review......

I called an all employee meeting one day...I had just had it with slightly hurt crybabies wanting to file a Workmans Comp claim and wanted to keep things easy to understand and simple...Upped and said:

"Anybody gets hurt, like really really bad, requiring anykind of advanced medical attention, New First Aid Rules!: "The nearest guy just flat kills them immediately by any means available, and stuffs the carcass into the dumpster!" :laughing:

"I'm serious! Assess the situation, If Superglue or duct tape cant fix the guy, just flat kill them!" "Do you all want to lose your jobs or not get paid?" "Well...thats the outcome if one of your 'injured on the job' co-workers lives to tell about it and gets a hold of a Lawyer!" Liability!

So yeah, its been pretty good since I instituted this new dynamic to my crew......Not one LTA reported! Hell, we even get a medal for being the 'Safest Company to Work For" in the Tri County area every year! Sure we have a high rate of absenteeism and turn over, but who doesnt! You know people! One day they are there and the next they simply vanish and dont show up? Like what happened to that one baby seal? Oh yeah!...OSHA got 'em!

Plus, at the Company Picnic, we raffle off some amazing former workers 'abandoned' gear! Hey..its not our fault they left it behind when they 'quit'..:laughing:
 
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