Multi freq At pro?

Steve Moore has hinted at it for a while now.


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I must be either tone deaf or blind, but I sure don't see much on the Garrett Apex. What I have heard is not good. That should tell you something. I would be surprised if they have an AT multi frequency any time soon.

Personally I have my doubts they have the engineers and R&D staff to progress any further. Why did they bring out Multi in a low end model? The answer is most likely their tech is not close to good enough for a flagship model. Look at the Explorer, Etrac, and CTX, those detectors are far more sophisticated than the AT series. The Explorer was retired. Both the Etrac and CTX detectors are getting close to end of life now. Think about it, Garrett has been behind a really long time now in the Multi Frequency game. They have not shown in all this time they had the know how to advance any further. They could not even bring out a machine that gave you multiple frequency options. Nokta even beat them at that with the Impact.

I hope they prove me wrong, and I'll be more than happy to eat my words if things change, but for now it doesn't look good. The AT Pro is a top notch single frequency detector, but technologically it's bordering on dinosaur status at this point.
 
longbow62: said:
I must be either tone deaf or blind, but I sure don't see much on the Garrett Apex. What I have heard is not good. That should tell you something.
Many forums are between sleepy and dead. Not a lot of talk about much at all. I have friends who use the Apex, as I do, who really like it. I know I like mine enough that I bought two of them to keep the 5X8 'Ripper' mounted full-time on my main-use Apex, and the 2nd sports the 8½X11 DD 'Raider' coil and I grab it for wide-open areas such as plowed fields, out in the middle of large grassy parks, etc.

Often I get into building rubble, very dense, choking sagebrush and other vegetation and similar places where I need to work the smallest coil, so for those tasks I ordered my 3rd Apex this week and I will keep the new NEL 5" 'Sharp' coil mounted and ready-to-grab.

Why? Because the Apex offers more general-purpose performance than many wanted to believe, and that's because they compared it against the Equinox. Different detectors, different feature-sets, and different pricing.


longbow62: said:
Personally I have my doubts they have the engineers and R&D staff to progress any further.
How about FTP who DOES have an ample, skilled, knowledgeable engineering staff. Other than a very-dated, 2-frequency CZ offering we have nothing that is new and creative.

And what about having R&D engineers, like those at Minelab who designed the Vanquish 540 Pro Pack at the same $$$ retail as the Apex and it lacks All Metal mode like the Apex, but it also lacks Ground Balance, selectable single-frequencies, and they messed up the All Metal Disc. function with the 'Horseshoe' button where each mode can false a lot, some as if a genitive GB and the other as if a positive GB behavior. I have the V-540 and it's OK for some applications, but it falls short of the Apex in several ways for me.


longbow62: said:
Why did they bring out Multi in a low end model? The answer is most likely their tech is not close to good enough for a flagship model.
It's not a "low-end," it is 'mid-priced like Minelab's Vanquish 540.


longbow62: said:
Think about it, Garrett has been behind a really long time now in the Multi Frequency game. They have not shown in all this time they had the know how to advance any further. They could not even bring out a machine that gave you multiple frequency options. Nokta even beat them at that with the Impact.
I think they will advance, but when it gets right down to it, not everything is 'Multi-Frequency' dependent., and a lot of folks are finding stuff with proven single-frequency models, or selecting a single-frequency rather than Multi.

Monte
 
I really like my apex in the salt water ,so much in fact i've only used my cz once this winter
 
Monte I respect your opinion your right you don't need multi to find stuff. As far as the Vanquish goes I have not used one, but I hear more talk of them than I do the Apex. I'm a devoted Equinox, and Etrac user. Equinox more than Etrac. I'm not so devoted that I won't switch to a better machine when it comes out no matter who makes it. That being said right now Minelab is the only company I would have enough confidence in to pre-order a new release from.
 
Well? Where is it? :?::lol:
I hope Garrett is working on this!

If there is one.......... i hope they do much better than they did with Apex. You will not see very much negatives on it,,,, but there is a !!!! ton!!

I got deleted off all the Apex forums as did others for posting the issues with the machines. I finally got frustrated and sold mine.

I for one, will not buy another new release detector until others i trust have had the opportunity to do an in depth, NON BIASED REAL REVIEW of the machine.

I do have hope that since they acquired White's and now have access to the V series they might take that technology and release a newer machine based on that technology, which is very good.

Longbow you are mostly correct and yes the negativity was not allowed on forums and websites and the vast majority is and was swept under the rug. That is why you do not see much on it.
 
longbow62: said:
Monte I respect your opinion your right you don't need multi to find stuff. As far as the Vanquish goes I have not used one, but I hear more talk of them than I do the Apex. I'm a devoted Equinox, and Etrac user. Equinox more than Etrac. I'm not so devoted that I won't switch to a better machine when it comes out no matter who makes it. That being said right now Minelab is the only company I would have enough confidence in to pre-order a new release from.
And I respect your opinion as well. I bought an Equinox 800 w/6" coil after I had my Vanquish 540 for a couple of months. For the places I hunt, I actually favored the V-540 w/5X8 DD over the EQ-800 w/6" DD, so I sold the Equinox. Good detector, works well for a lot of people based on where they hunt and what they do and don't like. I not only have good friends who use the Apex, successfully, but some who are Equinox or Vanquish owners & users, too.

As for negatives, we tend to read more of those on the forums than we do complementary posts. It's how some people are. And with leakage issues, rod issues and several other things the Equinox have not gone unnoticed, either.

I bought a 2nd Apex, which was also an earlier-release unit, and it had some of the noisy behavior. I didn't get rid if it, but contacted Garrett, sent it in, and in short-order had a fixed Apex back in my detector outfit. My 3rd Apex should arrive today or early next week and if there's an issue, I'll have it fixed .... but I think those have been resolved now.

Equinox, Vanquish, Apex. None are 'junk' and all offer a certain level of features and performance for their price-point. Certainly three good models for folks to shop from, and one or more just might make a good 'fit' for them. It has for you, and it has for me with the Apex and V-540.

Monte
 
And I respect your opinion as well. I bought an Equinox 800 w/6" coil after I had my Vanquish 540 for a couple of months. For the places I hunt, I actually favored the V-540 w/5X8 DD over the EQ-800 w/6" DD, so I sold the Equinox. Good detector, works well for a lot of people based on where they hunt and what they do and don't like. I not only have good friends who use the Apex, successfully, but some who are Equinox or Vanquish owners & users, too.

As for negatives, we tend to read more of those on the forums than we do complementary posts. It's how some people are. And with leakage issues, rod issues and several other things the Equinox have not gone unnoticed, either.

I bought a 2nd Apex, which was also an earlier-release unit, and it had some of the noisy behavior. I didn't get rid if it, but contacted Garrett, sent it in, and in short-order had a fixed Apex back in my detector outfit. My 3rd Apex should arrive today or early next week and if there's an issue, I'll have it fixed .... but I think those have been resolved now.

Equinox, Vanquish, Apex. None are 'junk' and all offer a certain level of features and performance for their price-point. Certainly three good models for folks to shop from, and one or more just might make a good 'fit' for them. It has for you, and it has for me with the Apex and V-540.

Monte

How is that possible? I figured the only real advantage of the Vanquish was its form factor, AA batteries, coil(s) and simplicity.
 
I have been using the Apex since its release date and have been very happy with its performance. Between the Viper, Ripper and now Nel SuperFly coils I feel Im well covered for how and where I hunt. Between the gold and silver jewelry I have recovered Ive about covered my initial purchase. It will be interesting to see what Garret has up its sleeve next and if they will incorporate any tech. they acquired with the purchase of Whites.
 

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mh9162013: said:
How is that possible? I figured the only real advantage of the Vanquish was its form factor, AA batteries, coil(s) and simplicity.
I have an assortment of detectors that handle most of my needs fine. The Equinox has some performance we can credit the Multi-IQ for, but nothing is ever 'perfect.' With the Vanquish 540, I have the basic Multi-IQ performance at hand, and I prefer the physical package of the Vanquish, plus the replaceable AA battery option, and I do have Low Iron Bias for those places and times it might b to my benefit. I also have Iron Audio Volume control, and I like the 5-Tone ID feature (when ample Disc. segments are accepted, of course.).

I selected a very challenging iron littered gold mining ghost town, and a dedicated path through and around some trash and brushy areas. I walked it with the EQ-800 w/6" DD coil on a 45 minute search. I switched for the V-540 w/5X8 DD and walked the very same route for 45 minutes. I had eyeballed or marked several targets or signal areas, and checked them all with the V-540. I found two good-sounding non-ferrous targets that the EQ-800 didn't respond favorably to. I also did a slightly better job of identifying some of the pesky rusted tin shards with the Vanquish.

For the types of sites where I might want some edge in performance from a SMF model, I favored the V-540 over the EQ-800.

Monte
 
I have an assortment of detectors that handle most of my needs fine. The Equinox has some performance we can credit the Multi-IQ for, but nothing is ever 'perfect.' With the Vanquish 540, I have the basic Multi-IQ performance at hand, and I prefer the physical package of the Vanquish, plus the replaceable AA battery option, and I do have Low Iron Bias for those places and times it might b to my benefit. I also have Iron Audio Volume control, and I like the 5-Tone ID feature (when ample Disc. segments are accepted, of course.).

I selected a very challenging iron littered gold mining ghost town, and a dedicated path through and around some trash and brushy areas. I walked it with the EQ-800 w/6" DD coil on a 45 minute search. I switched for the V-540 w/5X8 DD and walked the very same route for 45 minutes. I had eyeballed or marked several targets or signal areas, and checked them all with the V-540. I found two good-sounding non-ferrous targets that the EQ-800 didn't respond favorably to. I also did a slightly better job of identifying some of the pesky rusted tin shards with the Vanquish.

For the types of sites where I might want some edge in performance from a SMF model, I favored the V-540 over the EQ-800.

Monte

Ok, so we see eye to eye about the form factor and AA battery benefits of the Vanquish. But how would the Vanquish outperform the Equinox when the Vanquish is a dumbed down version of the Equinox?

I hope you don't mind all my questions. I'm constantly mulling over what my next machine will be (currently using the Fisher F2) and I'm trying to get a better understanding of what more money (or a different model) gets me in terms of performance and ease of use.

Another question: when in low (or high) iron bias while using all metal mode with the Vanquish, does it mean it may eliminate certain iron target completely so you never know it's there? Or it still picks it up, but gives it a "lower" value, ie a lower tone or lower VID?
 
Ok, so we see eye to eye about the form factor and AA battery benefits of the Vanquish. But how would the Vanquish outperform the Equinox when the Vanquish is a dumbed down version of the Equinox?

I hope you don't mind all my questions. I'm constantly mulling over what my next machine will be (currently using the Fisher F2) and I'm trying to get a better understanding of what more money (or a different model) gets me in terms of performance and ease of use.

Another question: when in low (or high) iron bias while using all metal mode with the Vanquish, does it mean it may eliminate certain iron target completely so you never know it's there? Or it still picks it up, but gives it a "lower" value, ie a lower tone or lower VID?

The Vanquish is not better than the equinox, it's just different, simple. The S rod is easier on some older people than the straight rod . The simplicity of the vanquish helps also. I prefer the equinox myself due to more settings I can zero it in better. Plus is has a waterproof rating of ip68 I believe so I can dunk it if needed here where I live near the beach. I put mine on a carbon fiber shaft and it's a huge difference in the water.
 
I have an assortment of detectors that handle most of my needs fine. The Equinox has some performance we can credit the Multi-IQ for, but nothing is ever 'perfect.' With the Vanquish 540, I have the basic Multi-IQ performance at hand, and I prefer the physical package of the Vanquish, plus the replaceable AA battery option, and I do have Low Iron Bias for those places and times it might b to my benefit. I also have Iron Audio Volume control, and I like the 5-Tone ID feature (when ample Disc. segments are accepted, of course.).

I selected a very challenging iron littered gold mining ghost town, and a dedicated path through and around some trash and brushy areas. I walked it with the EQ-800 w/6" DD coil on a 45 minute search. I switched for the V-540 w/5X8 DD and walked the very same route for 45 minutes. I had eyeballed or marked several targets or signal areas, and checked them all with the V-540. I found two good-sounding non-ferrous targets that the EQ-800 didn't respond favorably to. I also did a slightly better job of identifying some of the pesky rusted tin shards with the Vanquish.

For the types of sites where I might want some edge in performance from a SMF model, I favored the V-540 over the EQ-800.

Monte

Monte you keep mentioning the 6" coil for the Equinox as compared to 5x8 on the Vanquish. I've had it in my head for awhile now that the 6" on the Equinox cripples it. I don't think it separates any better than the 11". I admit I have never adjusted recovery when using the 6" coil, and only adjusted sensitivity.

With a detector with the recovery speed of the Equinox those little coils aren't needed unless it's the added ability to get in tight spots. I have had the 6" coil for a long time, and I've yet to find one silver coin with it. It has not been on my machine for a long time. I find a lot of deep silver much of it over 6" deep so I don't need anything that will hamper depth. Especially when I'm not seeing any improvement in separation.
 
mh9162013: said:
Ok, so we see eye to eye about the form factor and AA battery benefits of the Vanquish. But how would the Vanquish outperform the Equinox when the Vanquish is a dumbed down version of the Equinox?
The Vanquish is more of a different engineered design than just a 'dumbed-down' Equinox.

For me and my wants and needs, the Vanquish 540 provides me some of the Minelab-designed performance in Multi-IQ. For some of my sites I get about th same performance from the V-540 as I got from the EQ-800. Part of that is because I like to keep things 'simple' and not get into a lot of adjustment tinkering.

I get into a lot of tough Iron Nail contaminate ghost towns or other old-use sites and I have several detectors that easily out-perform the EQ-800 in side-by-side comparisons And those are Single-Frequency models, or one is a Simultaneous M-F design.

There is no such thing as a 'perfect' detector, so I like to own and use at least two-or-more detection (it's usually several) that give me an edge and are more comfortable to use than others or that 'complement' the design and performance.


mh9162013: said:
I hope you don't mind all my questions. I'm constantly mulling over what my next machine will be (currently using the Fisher F2) and I'm trying to get a better understanding of what more money (or a different model) gets me in terms of performance and ease of use.
Well, there are a lot of detectors out there, very affordable. that I would consider a serious 'up-grade' from the Fisher F2. One I really like that is very adjustable and versatile is the Fisher F5, if we stay in that brand.

There are a lot of detectors available today that offer a lot of performance and run in the $300 to $500 price range, and some that a offer more adjustment features that are over the $500 price-point. Some that have SMF (Simultaneous Multi-Frequency) a few that have Selectable Multi-Frequency to pick one frequency to use, and most that are SF (Single-Frequency) design.

You will read a lot of posts by people using a model, such as a Minelab Equinox 800, who claim it is more versatile because it has a lot of adjustment features not found on lesser-priced models. But one of those many adjustment features is the ability to choose one of a few Single-Frequencies, but they say they never use it and only hunt in the SMF function. Seems like they were designed with that option for a good reason, so it makes me wonder just how much performance they might NOT be getting from their higher-dollar model.


mh9162013: said:
Another question: when in low (or high) iron bias while using all metal mode with the Vanquish, does it mean it may eliminate certain iron target completely so you never know it's there?
'Iron Bias' is one of the 'extra' adjustment features found on some, but not all, detectors out there. Let me start by clearing a couple of things up:

All Metal Mode: The Vanquish 540 I have does NOT have a traditional or conventional All Metal mode. That would be a selected mode that has a 'Threshold-based' audio hum, and usually the provision for the operator to adjust the Ground balance so the detector then ignores the ground signal by balancing it out. At that point the detector, operating in a true Threshold-based All Metal mode will respond to ALL metal targets, both ferrous and non-ferrous and it is a mode that does not incorporate any Discriminating circuity.

On the Vanquish 540, and on many, many other detectors available today, they use the term 'All Metal' simply to suggest that in that particular function ... of the Discriminate mode ... they have the Discrimination set low, at a point that will then respond to all ferrous and non-ferrous metal targets. However, to do so, it is still in a Discriminating mode and requires a certain amount of search coil motion, or sweep speed, in order to receive the combined signals, process out the ground signal, then pass the target signal along.

To 'eliminate' or 'reject' or 'Discriminate' a target, the Discrimination segments need to be rejected. For example, on a Minelab Vanquish you need to reject several of the first Disc. Segments of Disc. Notches to reject the particular annoying metal trash, such as most common Iron.

Iron Bias is a different function that tends to shift some problem ferrous junk into or out of a range. One problem ferrous trash target is the crimp-on Bottle Cap. Another might be some flat, rusty tin-shards, depending upon the size. When using High Iron Bias on the V-540 it will generally reject a Bottle Cap or a lot of the rusty tin. But Low Iron Bias doesn't treat them the same and those pesky targets might then produce a desirable-sounding audio response.


mh9162013: said:
Or it still picks it up, but gives it a "lower" value, ie a lower tone or lower VID?
Lower-conductive targets, such as common Iron, will usually produce a Low-Tone or Iron-Tone audio response that is lower than a mid-conductive or higher-conductive target sample. That will let you hear an Audible Tone-ID response, and on the detector's display see either a TID (Target ID) number or image like Foil or a Coin, or a VDI (Visual Discrimination Indicator} in a numeric number read-out.

Vid. = Short for Video

VDI = A numeric Visual Discrimination Indicator reference that is a suggestion of the target's Conductivity level.

Monte
 
Thanks for the explanations, Monte. They are very helpful.

And yes, the VID thing was a typo; I meant to say VDI.

I was just curious if Iron Bias (even set to low) meant the Vanquish would miss certain targets, maybe due to masking, for instance.

Like, with my F2, if I have it set to reject anything but quarters and dimes, I understand that a dime or quarter directly under an iron nail would likely be rejected. But if I was in F2's "all metal" mode, I would hope that my F2 would still give me my low tone indicating the iron nail hit.
 
Been watching this thread, and Monte kinda summed it up.
I usto go to a bar back in my 20s,, not a bad looking place inside but the parking lot was shale and full of potholes to boot. The parking lot was always full and bar was always packed..I asked the owner why he don't get it blacktopped ,, he said for what,people are gonna come regardless.
Same applies to Garret, why fix something that isn't broke?At pro is still the hottest seller outside of these forums ,which members make up maybe 1% of the people in the hobbie or thinking about the hobbie.
So,I guess for every one person waiting on a Garrett AT series model that's multi frequency there's probably a few thousand swinging one that's not,and making great finds.
 
Been watching this thread, and Monte kinda summed it up.
I usto go to a bar back in my 20s,, not a bad looking place inside but the parking lot was shale and full of potholes to boot. The parking lot was always full and bar was always packed..I asked the owner why he don't get it blacktopped ,, he said for what,people are gonna come regardless.
Same applies to Garret, why fix something that isn't broke?At pro is still the hottest seller outside of these forums ,which members make up maybe 1% of the people in the hobbie or thinking about the hobbie.
So,I guess for every one person waiting on a Garrett AT series model that's multi frequency there's probably a few thousand swinging one that's not,and making great finds.

Interesting analogy!
 
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