Another Vintage Video Of Metal Detecting

I thoroughly enjoyed this with my morning coffee.


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I've been detecting less than 10 years. Did all the older detectors have a threshold and if it did, was it optional like todays detectors ?

I wonder how many on this forum have ever had the opportunity to detect an area like this ?
 
Really enjoy seeing these older treasure hunting videos! I thought that was Richard Ray (Phantom Metal Detectors) around 4:20 and later it was confirmed around 16:20. Thanks for posting these gems from the past!
 
maaaaaaaaaaaan, this was great! finally had a chance to watch with coffee haha. also, i live right near that desert. :D
 
I grew up in the gold producing area of Arizona. All those abandoned mines and buildings I used to drive by makes you wonder what they left behind. I wish I knew then what I know now. Now I'm living in Ohio and sometimes really do miss being in the desert. Thanks for bringing back some good memories with the video.
 
kajunman: said:
I've been detecting less than 10 years.
Sorry to hear that because it means you missed out on a lot of fun, a lot of good targets in impressive quantities, and also missed out on some education and learning about metal detectors, metal detecting, and what we gave up in performance to get to where we are today.

I was fortunate to get an early start in having fun. Garrett Electronics, later Garrett Metal Detectors, started their business in 1964. In early March of 1965 I built my first Metal / Mineral Locator and have stayed very active and involved in this great sport since the start of is popularity. And along with a number of other brands back then, by the latter '60s I was enjoying some of those early Garrett devices, and went quite heavy and committed to Garrett products from '71 for the next dozen years.


kajunman: said:
I wonder how many on this forum have ever had the opportunity to detect an area like this?
I have hunted many of the types of places you'll see in all of those Vintage Videos, including quite a few out-of-the-way places in Utah (where I'm from) as well as ghost towns, stage stops, old resort sites and picnic groves, Dance Hall sites, mining encampments and townsites mainly in Utah, Wyoming, Colorado, Idaho, Oregon and Nevada. I kept at it as long as my health and mobility allowed me to. most of the more rugged places where it called for hiking in I did from '71 to '90. when I still could.


kajunman: said:
Did all the older detectors have a threshold and if it did, was it optional like todays detectors?

Well, it's class time:

Today we see a lot of detectors that have a control labeled 'Threshold.' Technically and historically, that knob/function was properly called a 'Tuner' control. "Threshold" isn't a name of a control, it is a reference to a proper audio setting you achieve using the 'Tuner' control. You adjusted the 'Tuner' just to the point you could hear a proper slight audio Hum or 'Threshold' level.

The 'Tuner' on a Transmit / Receive detector, aka Induction / Balance, would let you adjust to hear a functional slight 'Threshold' hum. On the earliest TR models, you would manually 'tune' for a working Threshold' level, and then position the search coils a uniform distance from the ground. Let's call it a 2" height just as an example. You had to maintain a uniform coil-to-ground height in order to keep a stable 'Threshold' hum.

If you lowered the coil towards the ground, let's say to 1", it would then have a greater amount of ground mineral impacting the EMF and the 'Threshold' would drop off a bit or usually completely null out. Depth and general performance would suffer. If you lifted the coil away from the ground, such as up to a 5" height, it would be farther from the ground mineral and therefore the ground would have less effect on the EMF and that would result in the 'Threshold' level increasing abruptly and get too loud for the detector to function properly.

So with those earlier TR models it was important to adjust the 'Tuner' for a proper 'Threshold' hum at the operating level, and maintain that. The user would have to keep a proper coil-to-ground relationship and, when necessary, re-adjust the 'Tuner' control to establish a functional 'Threshold' hum.

Design engineers soon incorporated an "auto-retune' control or in-circuit auto-tune to help maintain a working 'Threshold' when there was a change in coil height or in ground mineral make-up. Using any of the TR-Discrimination models also caused a problem because the more the operator increased the Disc. level away from 'ground' or 'iron' conductivity level and up to reject lower-conductive foil or higher to get rid of pull-tabs, the conventional TR mode would be even more reactive with even a slighter coil-height variance.

Thus, in those earlier days of TR detectors, most operating at or close to 100 kHz, it was the ground mineral environment that was our biggest struggle to deal with. We didn't have as much trash, or nearly as much higher-conductive trash like we have today or for the past 30+ years.

George Payne is credited with engineering the first ground-cancelling metal detector for the hobby market when he was an engineer at White's Electronics, and they brought us our first detector model that featured controls to cancel or eliminate the falsing when the coil was raised or lowered from the ground. That was patented, I believe, in '74 and the first model, the Coinmaster V Supreme came out in '74 or 75. It did not have a TR-Discriminate mode and could only be tuned to eliminate / cancel / ignore / balance-out the ground mineral effects.

It has two knobs to achieve that: A 'Tuner' control to adjust for a proper 'Threshold' audio; and another knob control called the 'Terranean Attenuator' of all things. Many Dealers couldn't even pronounce it! Today that control is usually called a Ground Adjust control or a Ground Balance control.

You had to adjust the 'Tuner 'then lower the coil and adjust the 'Terranean Attenuator', then raise the coil off the ground and tweak the 'Tuner' for a Threshold and then lower it and adjust the 'T-A' for a Threshold hum and go back-and-forth until the coil could be raised and lowered w/o any falsing.
Today we have auto-retune circuitry working so w only need to adjust the 'GB' control once we have a functional 'Threshold' level setting.

By the latter '70s we had 2-Mode detectors. One mode was the 'VLF' or Ground balanced mode to ignore the ground mineral and respond to any ferrous or non-ferrous tarage4t. We call that an All Metal mode. It allowed us to search any ar4ea, as you saw in the old videos, with the search coil off the ground and going over rocks and stumps and dirt and weeds, etc. Then, when a target was located and we could switch to the 2nd search mode, and that was the 'conventional' TR-Disc. mode.

Then we had Discrimination capability, but we were back to needing to maintain a uniform coil-to-ground relationship so as not to lose the 'Threshold' level we had 'tuned' for.

Fast-forward to today and recent years, and we have some models that lack a true, Threshold-based All Metal mode. we have quite a few detectors that have a selectable mode that is labeled "All Metal" but it isn't a conventional 'mode' but is simply a motion-based Discriminate mode at about a 'Zero-Disc.' setting and can respond to both Ferrous and Non-Ferrous targets. A few of those let us adjust to hear what they call a 'Threshold' hum, but it isn't a conventional All Metal mode, just a motion-based Disc. mode with a Threshold audio reference.

Well, did I leave anyone lost and confused? Sorry. If you ever get 'Out West' to hunt some very iron infested ghost towns, look me up. Come sit and chat for a day or two and get some hands-on experience with a few of those old-time detectors. I have some on-hand for my seminars.

More questions? E-mail me and we'll not clutter the forums.

Monte

[email protected] -- or -- [email protected]
 
Sorry to hear that because it means you missed out on a lot of fun, a lot of good targets in impressive quantities, and also missed out on some education and learning about metal detectors, metal detecting, and what we gave up in performance to get to where we are today.

I was fortunate to get an early start in having fun. Garrett Electronics, later Garrett Metal Detectors, started their business in 1964. In early March of 1965 I built my first Metal / Mineral Locator and have stayed very active and involved in this great sport since the start of is popularity. And along with a number of other brands back then, by the latter '60s I was enjoying some of those early Garrett devices, and went quite heavy and committed to Garrett products from '71 for the next dozen years.


I have hunted many of the types of places you'll see in all of those Vintage Videos, including quite a few out-of-the-way places in Utah (where I'm from) as well as ghost towns, stage stops, old resort sites and picnic groves, Dance Hall sites, mining encampments and townsites mainly in Utah, Wyoming, Colorado, Idaho, Oregon and Nevada. I kept at it as long as my health and mobility allowed me to. most of the more rugged places where it called for hiking in I did from '71 to '90. when I still could.




Well, it's class time:

Today we see a lot of detectors that have a control labeled 'Threshold.' Technically and historically, that knob/function was properly called a 'Tuner' control. "Threshold" isn't a name of a control, it is a reference to a proper audio setting you achieve using the 'Tuner' control. You adjusted the 'Tuner' just to the point you could hear a proper slight audio Hum or 'Threshold' level.

The 'Tuner' on a Transmit / Receive detector, aka Induction / Balance, would let you adjust to hear a functional slight 'Threshold' hum. On the earliest TR models, you would manually 'tune' for a working Threshold' level, and then position the search coils a uniform distance from the ground. Let's call it a 2" height just as an example. You had to maintain a uniform coil-to-ground height in order to keep a stable 'Threshold' hum.

If you lowered the coil towards the ground, let's say to 1", it would then have a greater amount of ground mineral impacting the EMF and the 'Threshold' would drop off a bit or usually completely null out. Depth and general performance would suffer. If you lifted the coil away from the ground, such as up to a 5" height, it would be farther from the ground mineral and therefore the ground would have less effect on the EMF and that would result in the 'Threshold' level increasing abruptly and get too loud for the detector to function properly.

So with those earlier TR models it was important to adjust the 'Tuner' for a proper 'Threshold' hum at the operating level, and maintain that. The user would have to keep a proper coil-to-ground relationship and, when necessary, re-adjust the 'Tuner' control to establish a functional 'Threshold' hum.

Design engineers soon incorporated an "auto-retune' control or in-circuit auto-tune to help maintain a working 'Threshold' when there was a change in coil height or in ground mineral make-up. Using any of the TR-Discrimination models also caused a problem because the more the operator increased the Disc. level away from 'ground' or 'iron' conductivity level and up to reject lower-conductive foil or higher to get rid of pull-tabs, the conventional TR mode would be even more reactive with even a slighter coil-height variance.

Thus, in those earlier days of TR detectors, most operating at or close to 100 kHz, it was the ground mineral environment that was our biggest struggle to deal with. We didn't have as much trash, or nearly as much higher-conductive trash like we have today or for the past 30+ years.

George Payne is credited with engineering the first ground-cancelling metal detector for the hobby market when he was an engineer at White's Electronics, and they brought us our first detector model that featured controls to cancel or eliminate the falsing when the coil was raised or lowered from the ground. That was patented, I believe, in '74 and the first model, the Coinmaster V Supreme came out in '74 or 75. It did not have a TR-Discriminate mode and could only be tuned to eliminate / cancel / ignore / balance-out the ground mineral effects.

It has two knobs to achieve that: A 'Tuner' control to adjust for a proper 'Threshold' audio; and another knob control called the 'Terranean Attenuator' of all things. Many Dealers couldn't even pronounce it! Today that control is usually called a Ground Adjust control or a Ground Balance control.

You had to adjust the 'Tuner 'then lower the coil and adjust the 'Terranean Attenuator', then raise the coil off the ground and tweak the 'Tuner' for a Threshold and then lower it and adjust the 'T-A' for a Threshold hum and go back-and-forth until the coil could be raised and lowered w/o any falsing.
Today we have auto-retune circuitry working so w only need to adjust the 'GB' control once we have a functional 'Threshold' level setting.

By the latter '70s we had 2-Mode detectors. One mode was the 'VLF' or Ground balanced mode to ignore the ground mineral and respond to any ferrous or non-ferrous tarage4t. We call that an All Metal mode. It allowed us to search any ar4ea, as you saw in the old videos, with the search coil off the ground and going over rocks and stumps and dirt and weeds, etc. Then, when a target was located and we could switch to the 2nd search mode, and that was the 'conventional' TR-Disc. mode.

Then we had Discrimination capability, but we were back to needing to maintain a uniform coil-to-ground relationship so as not to lose the 'Threshold' level we had 'tuned' for.

Fast-forward to today and recent years, and we have some models that lack a true, Threshold-based All Metal mode. we have quite a few detectors that have a selectable mode that is labeled "All Metal" but it isn't a conventional 'mode' but is simply a motion-based Discriminate mode at about a 'Zero-Disc.' setting and can respond to both Ferrous and Non-Ferrous targets. A few of those let us adjust to hear what they call a 'Threshold' hum, but it isn't a conventional All Metal mode, just a motion-based Disc. mode with a Threshold audio reference.

Well, did I leave anyone lost and confused? Sorry. If you ever get 'Out West' to hunt some very iron infested ghost towns, look me up. Come sit and chat for a day or two and get some hands-on experience with a few of those old-time detectors. I have some on-hand for my seminars.

More questions? E-mail me and we'll not clutter the forums.

Monte

[email protected] -- or -- [email protected]

Monte you're a wealth of information. I was born in 62. Around 68 or 69 I saw a little tiny ad for metal detectors in a magazine. I ask Santa to get me one but he never brought one. Probably a good thing because I would have been too small to carry it.

About 8 years ago my wife bought me an ACE 350 bundle from Kellyco. I was thrilled. 3 months later I found a huge gold ring with it in an old school yard. I fell in love that day. It's therapeutic for me. I'm a very intense guy by nature. Detecting chills me out like nothing else.

As far as finds. I can only imagine what guys like you who began hunting in the 60's have found. Especially in ghost towns and hunting in mountains like in the video. One day I hope to make it out your way. It would definitely be a pleasure to shake your hand.

Thank you so much for all the info. One question. Do you prefer today's detectors or early 70's detectors ?
 
Very quaint and entertaining! Love the old cinematography and wow what a find in that wall that was a heart-stopper!
 
That was the best video o have watched in ages!! Really enjoyed the dredge segment.
 
kajunman: said:
Monte you're a wealth of information. I was born in 62. Around 68 or 69 I saw a little tiny ad for metal detectors in a magazine. I ask Santa to get me one but he never brought one. Probably a good thing because I would have been too small to carry it.?
At 6 or 7 years old you could have carried a small detector. My oldest son, Monte Jr., was outfitted with a White's Mini Master with the strap over his shoulder & neck and I had shortened the rod for him. That was in the summer of '76 and he turned 5 in December. I let him use this in the sand and woodchip filled tot-lot playgrounds.


kajunman: said:
About 8 years ago my wife bought me an ACE 350 bundle from Kellyco. I was thrilled. 3 months later I found a huge gold ring with it in an old school yard. I fell in love that day. It's therapeutic for me. I'm a very intense guy by nature. Detecting chills me out like nothing else.?
Good wife! If they get you a detector they are 'OK' with your interests in a great sport.

That nice ring does add to the thrill of having 'fun.'

Yes, going out detecting can be a lot of fun and relaxing. My kids (6 of them) used to tag along with me when I'd go detecting, or at least quite often on the short hunts such as before breakfast, before or after dinner, when I had a little time to spare, etc. Get-serious hunts of longer duration they didn't.


kajunman: said:
As far as finds. I can only imagine what guys like you who began hunting in the 60's have found. Especially in ghost towns and hunting in mountains like in the video. One day I hope to make it out your way. It would definitely be a pleasure to shake your hand.?
There were a lot more 'Big Surprise' types of finds I made in the latter '60s on thru to the early '80s than the last 35 years or so, from a wide range of places. Ghost towns and other old-use sites that have been ignored since they fell into ruin are essentially the same in that what you find is older. It's just that you don't find as much as in the early era.

Regular-use places, like parks and schools or beaches and camping sites and the like, that were used a long time ago and have been to the current period have changed the most. They once held a lot of older coins and tokens and other smaller lost objects. What we found during the '70s and into the mid-to-late '80s was also very exciting and early-on the quantity of coins found was truly remarkable! Not just in older dates but in sheer quantity.

Back then we encountered discarded trash, but it was very minimal by today's standards. In this past 30-plus years we have not only seen most of the older coins already recovered and gone, but the type of trash and amount of trash that has been discarded is a much greater percentage of the detectable targets we encounter. The only positive side of it is that there has still been regular site use and coinage lost to be found. The only bother is that it is 'modern' coins. While the quantity might be acceptable, the age and excitement of the coins isn't such a thrill as it once was. Of course the Canadian's have an edge on those in the USA because they get to find $1 and $2 coins that are in much greater circulation than here in the USA. We only have $1 coins and they are not frequently carried or spent.


kajunman: said:
Thank you so much for all the info. One question. Do you prefer today's detectors or early 70's detectors ?
For the most part I enjoy some of the more modern detectors. However, that doesn't mean the newest or most recent popular models.

In current production I own and use a Minelab Vanquish 540 and Nokta / Makro Simplex +. My other detectors are all discontinued models, such as a White's XLT introduced in 1994, Tesoro Bandido II µMAX and Silver Sabre µMAX introduced in 10/'97, Nokta FORS CoRe that was brought out in late '14 and Nokta FORS Relic that dates from the spring of 2016.

As for older era models, I do own a Compass Coin Hustler TR. Mine is a latter version from the late '70s that had the articulating search coil mount. The originals were direct-mounted to the rod and you couldn't adjust the coil angle. Mine is in 95% condition or better and works perfectly with the hard-wired 6" DD standard coil. I also have an old gray Garrett Hunter BFO that works just fine, and a Garrett Master Hunter TR-Disc. model that was purchased in '76, if I recall. It has both of the 'Master Hunter' package DD coils, is also in near perfect physical and functioning condition.

I mainly use these units in my seminars to show folks what we had and where we came from to get to where we are today. Also to demonstrate things they could do that our modern marvels can't. From time-to-time through the years I will take one or two afield or a while just to have a little fun, but not for a regular daily-use unit.

Monte
 
What a great old video. I loved the "2 handed shaft death grip" employed on the timed seeded hunt. Those guys were swingin' fast. The early bird gets the worm!

I laughed at the red flagged detector. Nothing like a little public shame to keep the detectorists in line.

Thanks for posting.
 
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