City Parks

Toy-soldier and Bill-ace :

You guys bring up good discussion. In-so-far as it relates to our hobby and the subject-at-hand. And, as you know: I'm ALL ABOUT SPLITTING HAIRS when it comes to legality-issues of our hobby, eh ? :laughing:

But I'm also all about the psychology of the entire issue, that surrounds this aspect of our hobby. So when it boils down to the current posts of yours (Ie.: Our actual constitutional rights), then: In-my-mind's-eyes, it does nothing more than conjur up some of those wild youtube videos of people who "challenge cops". Eg.: Invite roadside debates with cops , border patrols, etc...

And ... even though those youtubers or you may be "in the right", it never seems to turn out to be pretty. And in the present case, we're talking "small potatoes geek md'rs" . Ie.: Not motorists who don't think they have to submit to a breathalizer, blah blah

So, despite my love-of-splitting hairs on "allowed" vs "not allowed", yet on THIS PARTICULAR ANGLE : I'm all about "giving lip service". Going ahead and kissing butts . Ie.: WHETHER OR NOT it's "required" (constitutional debate, sovereign nation debates, etc...) is a moot point. Not a question of whether it's "right or wrong". But more a question of "What produces the best outcome for us md'rs ?"

And IMHO, the LESS those cops think about us, and the LESS that office-bound bureaucrats think about us, the better. And sometimes the best way to accomplish that, is NOT to be "demanding our rights" (no matter how court-ordered-correct that-might-be). Instead, the better results seem to be by us being non-issues. Even if that meant "kissing butt" and "lip service" .

And if this means being un-seen (choosing discreet times to detect), then to me: That saves a lot of time & energy . Rather than debating whether or not they legally can ask us for ID's, whether or not they can legally tell you to stop, etc.... Because if it's boiling down to the "prove-myself-legal", method, then that's like thinking "we're going to convert the world to love & adore us." And they be "forced to agree with us". And I just don't think that's possible.

And in my quest to hunt the coolest sites possible, and fend off "attention to myself", I will tend to weigh the "flies & honey vs vinegar" analogy.
 
Toy-soldier and Bill-ace :
................And in my quest to hunt the coolest sites possible, and fend off "attention to myself", I will tend to weigh the "flies & honey vs vinegar" analogy.........


I agree. Be friendly and understanding and let the officer get back to more important matters and forget about you. At the same time, if things aren't working out that way, don't just start jabbering and give the officer a bunch of info that could be twisted and used against you.

As I wrote up front, I was adding to Bil Ace 350's discussion of constitutional rights, just "for sake of discussion" and in response to Martin_V3i saying he didn't feel great about sitting in the back of a cruiser while the officer ran his driver's license. What would the officer do if Martin didn't have one at the time? Or, chose only to identify himself and not handed over the license in his wallet?
 
I am a Game Warden magnet when it comes to fishing! I always have license, legal equipment, no illegal catches.....

They're just doing their jobs.

Difference between Game Warden and cop is that I would wager that the vast majority of game wardens like to fish, whereas that might not be true of cops and metal detecting.

The ones I come into contact with don't hesitate to tell me which streams are hot and what the fish are hitting.
 
Toy-soldier and Bill-ace :

You guys bring up good discussion. In-so-far as it relates to our hobby and the subject-at-hand. And, as you know: I'm ALL ABOUT SPLITTING HAIRS when it comes to legality-issues of our hobby, eh ? :laughing:

But I'm also all about the psychology of the entire issue, that surrounds this aspect of our hobby. So when it boils down to the current posts of yours (Ie.: Our actual constitutional rights), then: In-my-mind's-eyes, it does nothing more than conjur up some of those wild youtube videos of people who "challenge cops". Eg.: Invite roadside debates with cops , border patrols, etc...

And ... even though those youtubers or you may be "in the right", it never seems to turn out to be pretty. And in the present case, we're talking "small potatoes geek md'rs" . Ie.: Not motorists who don't think they have to submit to a breathalizer, blah blah

So, despite my love-of-splitting hairs on "allowed" vs "not allowed", yet on THIS PARTICULAR ANGLE : I'm all about "giving lip service". Going ahead and kissing butts . Ie.: WHETHER OR NOT it's "required" (constitutional debate, sovereign nation debates, etc...) is a moot point. Not a question of whether it's "right or wrong". But more a question of "What produces the best outcome for us md'rs ?"

And IMHO, the LESS those cops think about us, and the LESS that office-bound bureaucrats think about us, the better. And sometimes the best way to accomplish that, is NOT to be "demanding our rights" (no matter how court-ordered-correct that-might-be). Instead, the better results seem to be by us being non-issues. Even if that meant "kissing butt" and "lip service" .

And if this means being un-seen (choosing discreet times to detect), then to me: That saves a lot of time & energy . Rather than debating whether or not they legally can ask us for ID's, whether or not they can legally tell you to stop, etc.... Because if it's boiling down to the "prove-myself-legal", method, then that's like thinking "we're going to convert the world to love & adore us." And they be "forced to agree with us". And I just don't think that's possible.

And in my quest to hunt the coolest sites possible, and fend off "attention to myself", I will tend to weigh the "flies & honey vs vinegar" analogy.

I think you misunderstood. I don't challenge law enforcement, but I won't go out of my way to convict myself.

For example, let's say I get pulled over. Let's say I was speeding.

I pull over, wait for police officer to see if he or she wants to see my license, insurance, registration...

Police Officer asks "Do you know why I pulled you over?"

I'm not going to tell him it was because I was speeding...That piece of conversation would go into his deposition, aka my guilty plea.

I might say "I'm not sure", "I dunno".

Rest assured, he or she will tell you.

I'm all about being polite and courteous in my interaction with them.

Point being, I don't equate my response in a traffic stop to some of the YouTube videos you mentioned.

I'm pro law enforcement, but at the same time am cognizant of my rights.

I worked for many years with county, state and federal law enforcement personnel, and know without a doubt that they all aren't on the right side of the law.

Being prudent with your responses to questioning, knowing your basic rights about searches and such isn't challenging law Enforcement.

I
 
I'm kinda new to the hobbie, but not to thinking about situations like this. I only carry a DL when driving. If I'm out of my vehicle, my id stays unless I have a known need for it (ie banking) I treat it as it is there for my convenience other than when driving. I have made up a card for this activity, but it's more for if I run into one of you guys out there, has my name, city and state, email addy, my "online handle" and a cute cartoon guy swinging a coil. Keep them in my finds pouch.

I'm always polite in any interaction I've had, or will have with leo, but am not going to go out of my way to do their job for them. Especially when that job is making money for the city... Most of these guys are just trying to get through another day at work, problem is, unlike the difference between a young father and a gangbanger in the corner of the park, with cops, I can't tell, good or bad they all look the same.

Also kinda figured if I was ever bothered here in my little town I'd try and just pull them off to the side and show them the sharp !!!! I pull from the tott lots, first, before moving to the grass. The couple neighborhood people that have asked I've kinda just joked I'm cleaning up the trash in the park and once in a while finding some change. That was all that was needed.
 
I always go the park department and ask for the supervisor. After I introduce myself I ask for permission to hunt. I have never been told no, but have always been told to cover any holes I dig. The only interaction I’ve had with law enforcement they stopped and asked if I was finding any treasure. They were very nice and I spent some time talking to them, before they left they told me about another park I wasn’t familiar with.
 
I'm kinda new to the hobbie, but not to thinking about situations like this. I only carry a DL when driving. If I'm out of my vehicle, my id stays unless I have a known need for it (ie banking) I treat it as it is there for my convenience other than when driving. I have made up a card for this activity, but it's more for if I run into one of you guys out there, has my name, city and state, email addy, my "online handle" and a cute cartoon guy swinging a coil. Keep them in my finds pouch.

I'm always polite in any interaction I've had, or will have with leo, but am not going to go out of my way to do their job for them. Especially when that job is making money for the city... Most of these guys are just trying to get through another day at work, problem is, unlike the difference between a young father and a gangbanger in the corner of the park, with cops, I can't tell, good or bad they all look the same.

Also kinda figured if I was ever bothered here in my little town I'd try and just pull them off to the side and show them the sharp !!!! I pull from the tott lots, first, before moving to the grass. The couple neighborhood people that have asked I've kinda just joked I'm cleaning up the trash in the park and once in a while finding some change. That was all that was needed.


They have parks in Rio vista?
 
I am a Game Warden magnet when it comes to fishing! I always have license, legal equipment, no illegal catches.....

:laughing: This! Me Too! All my walkabout Life out of doors trying to enjoy my Sports, Be it fishing or hunting or trapping, I am GOING to get checked by a Game Warden! 40years of this! There could be 50 boats at the ramp, and who does the Game Warden check? ME! I'm so danged legal, it aint even funny, but it got to be a real bummer and made my passions unenjoyable!...Just reading the regs and understanding them you gotta be some kind of lawyer!...It was exhausting trying to keep myself legal!! Everybody else violating and here it is ME getting checked!

Along these lines, I'm also a panhandler and TSA and crazy person magnet! I got panhandled in the lobby of the Atlanta Peachtree Weston! Everytime I try to get on an airplane, the TSA monkeys tear the stuffing out of me like the Scarecrow on the Wizard of Oz! Crazy people? forget about it! I am painted blaze orange!...Here we go in some insane conversation......

So yeah, I supersize with you Bill...For some reason my natural pheremones attract Game Wardens, TSA, Panhandlers, Insane Booboos, and Jehovah Witnesses....

I have never been a 'Chick Magnet' so to speak...Never ever at all in my Life has a Wild Hot Chick been unexplicably been drawn in by my pheremones!...I'm invisible to Hot Chicks, which is good, one less thing to worry about!...My own Wife hasnt seen me in 30 years!..:laughing:

Metal detecting, a guy can go out of doors year round with no permits or licenses or seasons or regulations or rules...at peace and completely invisible...I'd like to meet Halle Berry out on the beach some early morning at Sun-up...I think we'd get to talking and she would really like me, I'd tell her some poems or somedamnthing...:laughing:...
 
:laughing: This! Me Too! All my walkabout Life out of doors trying to enjoy my Sports, Be it fishing or hunting or trapping, I am GOING to get checked by a Game Warden! 40years of this! There could be 50 boats at the ramp, and who does the Game Warden check? ME! I'm so danged legal, it aint even funny, but it got to be a real bummer and made my passions unenjoyable!...Just reading the regs and understanding them you gotta be some kind of lawyer!...It was exhausting trying to keep myself legal!! Everybody else violating and here it is ME getting checked!

Along these lines, I'm also a panhandler and TSA and crazy person magnet! I got panhandled in the lobby of the Atlanta Peachtree Weston! Everytime I try to get on an airplane, the TSA monkeys tear the stuffing out of me like the Scarecrow on the Wizard of Oz! Crazy people? forget about it! I am painted blaze orange!...Here we go in some insane conversation......

So yeah, I supersize with you Bill...For some reason my natural pheremones attract Game Wardens, TSA, Panhandlers, Insane Booboos, and Jehovah Witnesses....

I have never been a 'Chick Magnet' so to speak...Never ever at all in my Life has a Wild Hot Chick been unexplicably been drawn in by my pheremones!...I'm invisible to Hot Chicks, which is good, one less thing to worry about!...My own Wife hasnt seen me in 30 years!..:laughing:

Metal detecting, a guy can go out of doors year round with no permits or licenses or seasons or regulations or rules...at peace and completely invisible...I'd like to meet Halle Berry out on the beach some early morning at Sun-up...I think we'd get to talking and she would really like me, I'd tell her some poems or somedamnthing...:laughing:...

I hear you. many times when stationed in Europe, I was stopped Nd questioned/patted down by police/military toting Uzis and other automatic weapons! France was the worst, followed by the UK and Germany.

Some people have all the luck.
 
Any opinions on MDing in village parks with multiple, prominent "reward for information on vandals"-type signs and village ordinances that state no one shall "destroy, take, or meddle with any property belonging to the village or remove from the same building or place where it may be kept, placed, or stored without proper authority"?
 
In one village for example:
 

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Any opinions on MDing in village parks with multiple, prominent "reward for information on vandals"-type signs and village ordinances that state no one shall "destroy, take, or meddle with any property belonging to the village or remove from the same building or place where it may be kept, placed, or stored without proper authority"?

I looked at your examples. You're on your own, of course, but none of those appear to have been written with metal detecting in mind. WE imagine the metal detecting implications, but the intention could simply be to stop idiots from stealing landscaping and spray painting potty words on park benches.

While I think forum member Tom_in_CA is a bit more cavalier than I am on this topic, he's certainly correct when he says every single municipality has similar general language somewhere on the books about damaging public property--even if it's not in their parks rules/ordinances. Even if they don't, there are already laws against "breaking stuff" if they really wanted to push it. Yet, lots of people hunt parks with no issues whatsoever. The locals just aren't making any association between metal detecting and those ordinances.

Does that mean some staffer won't come along and try to apply those general rules or laws against you? Of course not. But, with good recovery techniques there shouldn't be any actual, visible damage. Sure, there's a greater than 0% risk of having to pay a fine or even having to defend yourself against charges that would likely get dropped when they can't prove actual damages. If you take it that far, be prepared for them to simply change the rules and ban metal detecting directly. Getting booted is more likely, if anything happens at all, and you want the person to forget about you and the interaction 1 minute later. It's likely a matter of interpretation and you might have encountered one person's opinion and not official park policy.

It's also possible that not all detectorists are perceived equally. The harmless looking gent poking around for coins and picking up trash might get overlooked in some places, but the guy dressed and equipped to wage war against the park's baseball field is stopped in his tracks.
 
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I looked at your examples. You're on your own, of course, but none of those appear to have been written with metal detecting in mind. WE imagine the metal detecting implications, but the intention could simply be to stop idiots from stealing landscaping and spray painting potty words on park benches.



While I think forum member Tom_in_CA is a bit more cavalier than I am on this topic, he's certainly correct when he says every single municipality has similar general language somewhere on the books about damaging public property--even if it's not in their parks rules/ordinances. Even if they don't, there are already laws against "breaking stuff" if they really wanted to push it. Yet, lots of people hunt parks with no issues whatsoever. The locals just aren't making any association between metal detecting and those ordinances.



Does that mean some staffer won't come along and try to apply those general rules or laws against you? Of course not. But, with good recovery techniques there shouldn't be any actual, visible damage. Sure, there's a greater than 0% risk of having to pay a fine or even having to defend yourself against charges that would likely get dropped when they can't prove actual damages. If you take it that far, be prepared for them to simply change the rules and ban metal detecting directly. Getting booted is more likely, if anything happens at all, and you want the person to forget about you and the interaction 1 minute later. It's likely a matter of interpretation and you might have encountered one person's opinion and not official park policy.



It's also possible that not all detectorists are perceived equally. The harmless looking gent poking around for coins and picking up trash might get overlooked in some places, but the guy dressed and equipped to wage war against the park's baseball field is stopped in his tracks.
I think that you make many fair points in your post. Ironically, I was literally just killing some time before a dentist appointment in the next town over quick-scanning next to one of the many ballfields in the village park. While doing this a local LEO starts coming down the drive, goes past me, turns around in the parking lot, and pulls up to me after observing me for a few moments. He rolls down his window and asks if I lost something. I told him I was just killing some time before my appointment and was scouting for spring.

Long story short we ended up talking for nearly 20 minutes, starting with what I was doing and ending up with him giving me suggestions of where to go; both in the park and elsewhere. Interestingly he suggested a few areas that I know to be explicitly off-limits, much to his surprise. Initially he had some concerns about leaving holes that could trip kids, but once I explained the Metal Detecting Code of Ethics he seemed at peace with me MDing in the park.

All-in-all, this interaction seemed to echo what many have said here; "your experience may vary", but in general stick to the MD CoE, don't be a disrespectful tool, and blend in and you likely won't have too many problems.
 
Any opinions on MDing in village parks with multiple, prominent "reward for information on vandals"-type signs and village ordinances that state no one shall "destroy, take, or meddle with any property belonging to the village or remove from the same building or place where it may be kept, placed, or stored without proper authority"?

Toy soldier summed it up beautifully :

.... every single municipality has similar general language somewhere on the books about .....

Correct. Yet a quick look on md'ing hobbyist forum pages, shows no lack of show & tell bragging rights posts of us finding stuff in (gasp) public parks.

I don't doubt that some places (like the verbiage you posted) is more ... uh .... dire sounding than in other places. Ie.: some places might only just have boiler plate "damage" or "remove" wording. While other places seem to spell it out in much more dire terms. Eg.: the exact word "dig", etc.....

All I can say is: If you/we start-down-that-road of feeling as if we "can't proceed without clarification", is the moment you run the risk of becoming the latest victim of "No one cared till you asked" routine.

If you leave no trace of your presence (cover, stomp, fluff up), then : Presto: You haven't damagED, alterED, or defacED anything . Right ? And I would even extend this to dIg vs dUg.

Will every last person on earth agree with those semantics ? Of course not. But unless you're being a major eyesore nuisance, then the odds are : No one cares less. Just go at low traffic times and avoid nosy-parkers.
 
Toy soldier summed it up beautifully :







Correct. Yet a quick look on md'ing hobbyist forum pages, shows no lack of show & tell bragging rights posts of us finding stuff in (gasp) public parks.



I don't doubt that some places (like the verbiage you posted) is more ... uh .... dire sounding than in other places. Ie.: some places might only just have boiler plate "damage" or "remove" wording. While other places seem to spell it out in much more dire terms. Eg.: the exact word "dig", etc.....



All I can say is: If you/we start-down-that-road of feeling as if we "can't proceed without clarification", is the moment you run the risk of becoming the latest victim of "No one cared till you asked" routine.



If you leave no trace of your presence (cover, stomp, fluff up), then : Presto: You haven't damagED, alterED, or defacED anything . Right ? And I would even extend this to dIg vs dUg.



Will every last person on earth agree with those semantics ? Of course not. But unless you're being a major eyesore nuisance, then the odds are : No one cares less. Just go at low traffic times and avoid nosy-parkers.
Absolutely Tom, thanks!
 
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