Legend owners: Major update v1.08 is now in the hands of the testers.
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diggindaboot
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So you've already had to backtrack AFTER you did some research.
With the manual iron bias control and the pitch settings, the Legend will match the performance of the Deus 2 Have you done a side by side comparison ? If you haven't, then it's not really something you know for sure. I'll give you a bone though. Nokta's detectors are built like a tank. Best coil ears in the biz.
Diga
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Diggin,
Note that in my original post I said "XP" followed by a question mark. Meaning, questionable warranty aspects. I certainly am not alone about said aspects, as is evident from other members with the same concerns on this forum, and other online forums.
My current and previous comments on the actual performance of the D2 not being any better than the Legend or the Nox, are based on:
1) The D2 not having any new performance technology when compared to the Nox or the Legend. That is also in relation to the limitations of this technology, which has already been achieved by Minelab, and now matched by XP and Nokta given the expiration of Minelab's patent on the technology.
2) Forum members and a few You Tubers that have done the comparisons, and that more importantly, I trust. Granted, although they state the depth is about the same in all three, they also state that the D2 and Nox separates better than the Legend in iron and trashy ferrous sites. However, that is due to the Legend's high iron bias preset, which significantly degrades its separation performance in such sites.
Note that in my original post I said "XP" followed by a question mark. Meaning, questionable warranty aspects. I certainly am not alone about said aspects, as is evident from other members with the same concerns on this forum, and other online forums.
My current and previous comments on the actual performance of the D2 not being any better than the Legend or the Nox, are based on:
1) The D2 not having any new performance technology when compared to the Nox or the Legend. That is also in relation to the limitations of this technology, which has already been achieved by Minelab, and now matched by XP and Nokta given the expiration of Minelab's patent on the technology.
2) Forum members and a few You Tubers that have done the comparisons, and that more importantly, I trust. Granted, although they state the depth is about the same in all three, they also state that the D2 and Nox separates better than the Legend in iron and trashy ferrous sites. However, that is due to the Legend's high iron bias preset, which significantly degrades its separation performance in such sites.
Diga
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jmaclen,
I thought I did answer it, but fair enough, your explanation is more thorough.
With that said, I admit I was somewhat confused as to why someone with seemingly good detector experience, would have to ask such a question. Anyway, like you said, and as I alluded to, "ID is secondary to getting a ferrous or non-ferrous tone since masking and target ID averaging/combining are going to happen even with the Iron Filter set lower", which is true for all similar detectors.
I thought I did answer it, but fair enough, your explanation is more thorough.
With that said, I admit I was somewhat confused as to why someone with seemingly good detector experience, would have to ask such a question. Anyway, like you said, and as I alluded to, "ID is secondary to getting a ferrous or non-ferrous tone since masking and target ID averaging/combining are going to happen even with the Iron Filter set lower", which is true for all similar detectors.
I don't know why an experienced detectorist like sube asked that question either.
It is a good question though, especially for more inexperienced detector users.
So I just thought I would give a detailed answer in case other Legend users/potential users wanted to know the same thing.
Diga
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I'm glad you did. Thank you.
Yes, it is a very good question, but in this case, I was reluctant to provide even the brief answer that I did, because I wasn't sure if I was being trolled.
In hindsight though, I should not have said, "listen for the high tone" as that is totally dependent on where the tone breaks are set. You were more accurate by simply stating to listen for a nonferrous tone among the ferrous sounds. Then of course, the target can be honed in on and isolated if further identification is required.
I have a CTX running that same test with this slow boat anchor the CTX gives a 34.45 which is proper ID . ferrous coin separation CTX does not rely on speed the ferrous coin separates the signal from one to the other
Running a fast machine as the 800 nox i get 16 for ID no where near the accuracy the ctx gives .I have yet to see a detector legend deus 2 and the nox give proper Id on a elevated nail test 3 1/2 inch nail on 2x4 dime below with smaller nail next to dime same plane.
I wanted a lighter detector but none ID as well as the CTX granted the CTX cost more but it does more on accuracy.Digging any random # such as 16 in a trashy park or fairgrounds is not my cup of tea. If I change that dime to a pull-tab with the nox it still reads 16 . Relic hunters don't need to have as accurate ID as trashy park hunters.
I just wanted a lighter detector but see none that are as good as the ctx hope minelab comes out with one . sube
Running a fast machine as the 800 nox i get 16 for ID no where near the accuracy the ctx gives .I have yet to see a detector legend deus 2 and the nox give proper Id on a elevated nail test 3 1/2 inch nail on 2x4 dime below with smaller nail next to dime same plane.
I wanted a lighter detector but none ID as well as the CTX granted the CTX cost more but it does more on accuracy.Digging any random # such as 16 in a trashy park or fairgrounds is not my cup of tea. If I change that dime to a pull-tab with the nox it still reads 16 . Relic hunters don't need to have as accurate ID as trashy park hunters.
I just wanted a lighter detector but see none that are as good as the ctx hope minelab comes out with one . sube
Diga
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All detectors see only two things: Phase shift and signal strength. That's it. Period.
A detector can't see more than one target simultaneously. However, detectors have become so fast with sequential processing, that they can give the illusion that they are seeing more than one target simultaneously. When you have a nail and a coin right beside each other, then the detector sees a combined phase shift and a combined signal strength. In that scenario, the only way you'll get a higher ID, is dependent on many variables.
For example, the main variable for the type of detection in high iron, is the iron bias, as is seen in Iffy's video. Note that he didn't hone in and isolate the coin. If he did, he would have gotten a higher ID. The "honing in and isolating" also has to take into account how a DD coil works (among other things). Meaning, knowing that a DD's main detection field is concentrated in a narrow strip that extends from the toe to heel of the coil. The perimeter of the DD coil also has a detection field, but it's not nearly as sensitive as the toe to heel field. DD coils also have 2 dead spots that are between the perimeter and the narrow strip from the toe to heel.
What I'm getting at with all that, is that there are way too many variables to make a general statement such as "My CTX shows a high ID for this test". In other words, in a nail test and based on all the variables, the CTX, the settings, the coil orientation, the type and size of the coil, etc, etc, can be manipulated to show a higher or lower ID, just as a D2, Nox, or Legend can.
There is one thing that is not variable sube. That is, the laws of physic and electromagnetism...and sorry, but neither the D2 or CTX breaks those laws
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Digalicious said In other words, in a nail test and based on all the variables, the CTX and it's coil can be manipulated to show a higher or lower ID, just as a D2, Nox, or Legend can.
There is no manipulation of the coil it's a steady swing over the target the ferrous # is 34 the conductive # is 45 there is no honing on the target ID left and right 34.45 this is with 3 1/2 inch nail on 2x4 dime below small nail next to dime same plane.
I guess i well have to make a vid it's worth a thousand words sube
There is no manipulation of the coil it's a steady swing over the target the ferrous # is 34 the conductive # is 45 there is no honing on the target ID left and right 34.45 this is with 3 1/2 inch nail on 2x4 dime below small nail next to dime same plane.
I guess i well have to make a vid it's worth a thousand words sube
Diga
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Yes, sube. I would love to see your video comparison with the ctx and the nox. If the nox isn't able to do what you claim the ctx can do, then play around with the nox's recovery speed and iron bias.
Make sure they are using the same frequency or frequencies as well.
Make sure they are using the same frequency or frequencies as well.
Diga
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What about the recovery speed? Is the SMF weighted the same on each detector? Running 0 disc on both? No filters on both?
Also, what type of metal is the coin composed of, and what ID does the coin and nail show on their own, with both the nox and ctx?
Also, what type of metal is the coin composed of, and what ID does the coin and nail show on their own, with both the nox and ctx?
Diga
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Also sube, the video should have no breaks, each detector's settings shown be shown, and each detector should be visible to the viewer at all times.
I'm heading out for some day camping shortly, so if you post a video, I probably won't be able to comment on it until late tonight.
I'm heading out for some day camping shortly, so if you post a video, I probably won't be able to comment on it until late tonight.
As I said recovery speed does nothing iron bias does nothing are the frequencies weighted the same how would I know it's a ctx 1 to 100 kh. metal it's a silver dime ID of nail don't know it's disc out.
There well be no breaks it well be raw don't know how to edit. Well give settings and how am I going to keep both detectors in the cameras veiw .
You already are doubting me why do it maybe you should find someone with a ctx and do the test yourself gees.
Simple test nail on 2x4 dime below ctx IDS 12.45 to 34.45 the conduct # is 45 the ferrous # is 12 to 34 ( CTX )
Nox IDS 16 sube
There well be no breaks it well be raw don't know how to edit. Well give settings and how am I going to keep both detectors in the cameras veiw .
You already are doubting me why do it maybe you should find someone with a ctx and do the test yourself gees.
Simple test nail on 2x4 dime below ctx IDS 12.45 to 34.45 the conduct # is 45 the ferrous # is 12 to 34 ( CTX )
Nox IDS 16 sube
Diga
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Don't take it personally
I'm a scientist. That means I doubt everything that can't be empirically proven.
All detectors see only two things: Phase shift and signal strength. That's it. Period.
This is may be true however minelab ctx has the ability to see several targets at one time instead of 1 cursor there are 2 one for ferrous one for conductive (i am guessing ) and you also have target trace which leaves all targets under the coil on the screen.
A detector can't see more than one target simultaneously. However, detectors have become so fast with sequential processing, that they can give the illusion that they are seeing more than one target simultaneously. When you have a nail and a coin right beside each other, then the detector sees a combined phase shift and a combined signal strength. In that scenario, the only way you'll get a higher ID, is dependent on many variables.
Well the ctx is not fast And it is not a illusion that i see several targets displayed at one time granted some targets are not showing in real time but the ferrous cursor and conductive cursor are in real time did you ever think the 7 phd scientist at minelab figured out how to process the signal to show both signals at one time.(FERROUS COIN SEPARATION)
As to empirically proven phase shift signal strength blah blah blah This is what I observed and seen several targets at the same time .
How can you make a statement about the CTX when you probably don't have one and never ran one ?
As to the video why do it empirically you would doubt me soooo you should do the video to prove to yourself Have a nice day . sube
This is may be true however minelab ctx has the ability to see several targets at one time instead of 1 cursor there are 2 one for ferrous one for conductive (i am guessing ) and you also have target trace which leaves all targets under the coil on the screen.
A detector can't see more than one target simultaneously. However, detectors have become so fast with sequential processing, that they can give the illusion that they are seeing more than one target simultaneously. When you have a nail and a coin right beside each other, then the detector sees a combined phase shift and a combined signal strength. In that scenario, the only way you'll get a higher ID, is dependent on many variables.
Well the ctx is not fast And it is not a illusion that i see several targets displayed at one time granted some targets are not showing in real time but the ferrous cursor and conductive cursor are in real time did you ever think the 7 phd scientist at minelab figured out how to process the signal to show both signals at one time.(FERROUS COIN SEPARATION)
As to empirically proven phase shift signal strength blah blah blah This is what I observed and seen several targets at the same time .
How can you make a statement about the CTX when you probably don't have one and never ran one ?
As to the video why do it empirically you would doubt me soooo you should do the video to prove to yourself Have a nice day . sube
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What you are saying has merit.
Try same/similar test with nickel comparing CTX with EQX especially using park 2 detect mode.
Eqx wins.
Dime CTX wins.
Why?
Its more to do with freq used of the detectors.
Eqx in park 2 is a nickle KILLER. Better than fbs/fbs 2. Granted some will say you’ll dig more trash with Nox. May be the case. But you depend on ID with fbs/fbs2 unit you’ll leave some nickels behind the EQX in park 2 will light up with surprisingly grand ID.
Cheers.
Love your posts.
