"Hop Coil" Technique??

AirmetTango

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Ok, this might really be a question directed pretty much straight at Mud-puppy, but instead of PMing him, I figured I'd post it as a thread so others who might be interested can benefit from any responses. What the heck is "hopping coil", how and when would you do it, and what are the benefits?? Clearly we aren't adding bitterness, flavor, and aroma to the MD coil (Double D IPA, anyone??) :lol:

I've seen a few posts lately where Mud-puppy has mentioned "hop coil" or "hopping coil" as a technique for use in the field while detecting:

From How do you deal with super trashy areas:

...You can learn to use alternative coil manipulation techniques in heavy trash areas...a big DD can even work like a sniper...hopping it instead of swinging it...shooting the signal straight down instead of side to side....

From Nox Noticings:
....yes, you can hop coil and stoopNstab clad just like with the F70...

These are just the recent posts - I know I've seen the technique talked about in more detail in older threads that I found when I first started detecting last year, but I haven't been able to find them again in a search - I was intrigued then, but I was also a clueless noob so I quickly forgot about it. I'm even more intrigued now that I've seen it mentioned again and I have a little more experience.

I'm guessing it's a method of pumping the coil over the ground (almost like ground balancing) to help differentiate a ferrrous/non-ferrous target and/or improve separation? Any insight would be much appreciated!
 
I'm not sure this is what Mud means by hopping coil but I use a similar technique for pin pointing shallow clad. Instead of taking the time to pin point just hop the coil over the target one way then the other, makes retrieval of shallow coins a lot faster. I still use the pin point function for deeper coins though.
 
Just a guess, but maybe he means that you can pinpoint a target by noticing when it first pings on the detector (so that way you know the target is at the tip of the coil). I used that technique when I used the xterra70, but it doesn't work as well on the ctx.
 
Hop coil.....

Its a very fast but gentle vertical 'jigging' motion of the coil...like a drummer...very fast but gentle...as you simultaneously raise the coil...Essentially, you are 'shooting' the coils concentrated signal straight down instead of side to side...its way faster to gently and briskly jig the wand instead of wiggle or swinging it back and forth...You can jig much faster than swinging or side to side wiggling...try it with your empty hand right here at the keyboard...see?..

It isolates a coin sized target into a golfball sized area, it also lets you know by the decreasing volumn how deep it is, it also lets you know the composition as the tone changes while hopping over junk or a stack.....it also tells you the size of target and its profile...

On a deep target, you just stick your screwdriver right over the sweet spot, then use it as a guide to cut your plug around, as well as a little handle like a pumpkin top to remove the plug...

It also really helps unraveling tight multidenom coin spills and fishing coins out from between all sorts of other nearby targets where the PP button feature gets confused...

I use it on all three of my rigs...all have a fast reaction speed, all have DD coils...I've not pushed a PP button in years....Its In Field success is based upon the audio signal strength to know where the target is, how deep, its composition, profile, etc...

A guy knows immediately, "thats a Q at 3" all while descending to stab it and pull it fast without even thinking about it...All in one fluid motion, "Ping to Pouch in less than 15 seconds" is the focus...

If you watch the Youtube vids of guys diddling around for 20seconds+ to figure out what a target is, then taking another 1 minute + to kneel down and find it with their pinpointer and dig the plug, then fill it in all for a 4" penny? You can see why this method would be very handy....all of the info can be gained immediately by Hopping the Coil...

Focusing on developing A very fast TARGET RETRIEVAL technique will allow a guy to find more targets per outing, cover more ground, learn more by condensing the learning curve, work heavy trash with ease, pull over 100 coins per hour..

Consider...By getting good at this concept, What you essentially did is pack 10yrs of metal detecting finds into 2...This is a Big World and coils are so small in comparison.....Who knows how much Time we have? Make the most of it! Get really fast on target retrieval! Time and Treasure wait for Nobody!
 
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Hop coil.....

Its a very fast but gentle vertical 'jigging' motion of the coil...like a drummer...very fast but gentle...as you simultaneously raise the coil...Essentially, you are 'shooting' the coils concentrated signal straight down instead of side to side...its way faster to gently and briskly jig the wand instead of wiggle or swinging it back and forth...You can jig much faster than swinging or side to side wiggling...try it with your empty hand right here at the keyboard...see?..

It isolates a coin sized target into a golfball sized area, it also lets you know by the decreasing volumn how deep it is, it also lets you know the composition as the tone changes while hopping over junk or a stack.....it also tells you the size of target and its profile...

On a deep target, you just stick your screwdriver right over the sweet spot, then use it as a guide to cut your plug around, as well as a little handle like a pumpkin top to remove the plug...

It also really helps unraveling tight multidenom coin spills and fishing coins out from between all sorts of other nearby targets where the PP button feature gets confused...

I use it on all three of my rigs...all have a fast reaction speed, all have DD coils...I've not pushed a PP button in years....Its In Field success is based upon the audio signal strength to know where the target is, how deep, its composition, profile, etc...

A guy knows immediately, "thats a Q at 3" all while descending to stab it and pull it fast without even thinking about it...All in one fluid motion, "Ping to Pouch in less than 15 seconds" is the focus...

If you watch the Youtube vids of guys diddling around for 20seconds+ to figure out what a target is, then taking another 1 minute + to kneel down and find it with their pinpointer and dig the plug, then fill it in all for a 4" penny? You can see why this method would be very handy....all of the info can be gained immediately by Hopping the Coil...

Focusing on developing A very fast TARGET RETRIEVAL technique will allow a guy to find more targets per outing, cover more ground, learn more by condensing the learning curve, work heavy trash with ease, pull over 100 coins per hour..

Consider...By getting good at this concept, What you essentially did is pack 10yrs of metal detecting finds into 2...This is a Big World and coils are so small in comparison.....Who knows how much Time we have? Make the most of it! Get really fast on target retrieval! Time and Treasure wait for Nobody!

I'm sure this has been requested before... but a tutorial video is in order!
 
Hopping the coil like a bunny.

Works great for separating two targets that are in proximity to each other and the pinpointer function can't latch onto the quality target you want.

@Mud, another 4 syllabler for your amusement. :D
 
Hop coil.....Its a very fast but gentle vertical 'jigging' motion of the coil...etc etc

Awesome info - thanks, Mud! Makes a lot of sense - sounds like you’re basically utilizing the coil’s detection field not just with the usual lateral motion, but with vertical motion to help create a 3D picture of the target. If this technique can help accurately and quickly differentiate multi-denom spills from junk, it’s absolute gold in my book! I’ll give it a shot on my next several hunts, and see if I can figure out how to make it work for me.
 
Thanks AT for posing this question, and thanks MP for answering in detail. I, too have wondered about this, and experimented some, but was doing it wrong. I was pumping up and down too much, but it was working as far as giving me a more accurate depth reading. Jigging I can understand. Back to the practice fields...
 
Mud, do you mean that you are jigging the coil while raising it higher and higher until you find the spot where you are essentially "tapping" the target with the bottom of the search field? I'm trying to visualize how this works...

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk
 
Mud, do you mean that you are jigging the coil while raising it higher and higher until you find the spot where you are essentially "tapping" the target with the bottom of the search field? I'm trying to visualize how this works...

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk

Yes...basically thats the concept and theory...In field, you keep your eyes on the ground and listen for the crispest part of the ping...quickly and gently jigging...not big movements, very fast yet slight vertical motion....

The Proportional audio as well as raising the coil tells you the depth, in a multitone feature, it tells you the denomination....

It also is useful to distinguish false signals like crowncaps...its very good for unravelling tight spills...telling a guy the size of an object, depth...etc...all via Audio and not so much the screen...

After a while, you can even do this in complete darkness without even seeing the ground, you just know where to StoopNStab...

You really want to know the target depth on account of you dont want to "Overstab" a coin and either damage it or tip it on edge....the idea is to stab with enough force to gently touch the target, then you retract the blade about 1/4" above it and ream out a hole to get your finger down into, use the blade to again touch the coin, find its edge, tip the coin, pinch it between your finger and the blade, and extract it straight up out of the hole...

Or you could simply stick your screwdriver in the dirt and cut your plug around it if you wish...no need for a handheld or the PP button on the machine...the target will be directly below the crispest ping in a golfball sized area...

For a lot of shallow coins, like a carpet of clad, its best to set your sens accordingly...at about half or lower, Its very important at initial set up to be able to know what depth range you are able to detect...I like about 5" for massive clad...I will adjust signal beam strength up if the situation merits...but I generally start out with soft settings and go up from there depending what the dirt is saying....

Hope this helps...it just takes a little practice and commitment to master is all...I still dont own a handhelp PP or use the PP button on the rig...sheesh, 10yrs into this Sport with the screwdriver! You sure can hammer fast..focus on speed of target retrieval and dont diddle around ..ping to pouch as fast as possible...
 
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Very well written and easy to understand Mud !:yes: I believe this set of instructions will result in the formation of a group of enlightened "Hop Heads"!:D
 
I'm going to add this method to my list called "Why Santa Should Give Me a Deus" since my little girly arms won't like jigging my heavy AT Pro for very long, and I really want to master the Mud-puppy Hop. I hope you realize that you have invented an ingenious technique.

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk
 
Thanks for the explanation MP. I think I can see it.

As other's here have asked, any chance of getting a demo video put together?
 
When you think about it, sort of hard to explain but it makes sense...you are getting an 'X and Y axis profile' of a target, (horizontal sweep+vertical hop) ... it shows up in your mind as a 3D Audio image...

The more you do it, the easier it gets, and the Mental Audio imagery begins to develop.....I guess the best thing to do would be to leave your PP and digging tool behind for a while...Just take a screwdriver...see if you can stab a coin on the first attempt...

From the backstory about alternative coil manipulation, When I was new at this, I didnt watch any vids or read any forums, I just went out to hunt to see how fast a guy could find targets and make pay...I noticed in heavy trash how a PP button on a large coil rig was about useless with several targets under the coil at the same time...

also, from beach hunting, aware that a lot of massive multidenom pocket spills sound like junk on a horizontal sweep, like a target a guy would never dig on the dirt...figured if theres this many spills on a beach, imagine whats waiting in the dirt that gets passed over as junk? ...

so yeah, its very helpful to experiment and think about things, how these Machines were designed to function, how can we use their design simply by employing alternative methods in their usage..

The human hand is very sensitive, the human ear is too..Human eyes are Not...Just saying you can do this with nothing but a screwdriver, hunt along rebar infested sidewalks and in heavy trash, right up tight to totlot equipment and CL fences..by throwing that signal straight down instead of side to side...
 
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So far, my Mudhop technique is still pretty sloppy. I've been spending time on targets using the PP button, the wiggle-back technique, and the hop-coil jigging process. Each has their limitations, or course. With vertical jigging, I can visualize the advantages explained, but can't seem to fine tune it very well. Baseball size area; maybe.
I still like my digger and handy pinpointer too much to go bare screwdriver. I try once in a while, but give up pretty quick when it frustrates me. There is very good reason for these techniques, so I'll keep learning...in my own slow ways.
"The Mud Puppy Hop" reminds me of "The Blueberry Bounce". Anybody remember that? It's a gold/black sand separating pan technique perfected by a guy they called Blueberry. Works good once you master it.
 
So far, my Mudhop technique is still pretty sloppy. I've been spending time on targets using the PP button, the wiggle-back technique, and the hop-coil jigging process. Each has their limitations, or course. With vertical jigging, I can visualize the advantages explained, but can't seem to fine tune it very well. Baseball size area; maybe.
I still like my digger and handy pinpointer too much to go bare screwdriver. I try once in a while, but give up pretty quick when it frustrates me. There is very good reason for these techniques, so I'll keep learning...in my own slow ways.
"The Mud Puppy Hop" reminds me of "The Blueberry Bounce". Anybody remember that? It's a gold/black sand separating pan technique perfected by a guy they called Blueberry. Works good once you master it.

Think about the field of a DD coil...in the illustrations, they depict it like a thin rectangle...In field, it actually has a little point right in the very dead center...so the crispest tone and highest signal strength is right there! I suppose its like being a piano tuner, with the Proportional audio on our rigs, the 'crispness' and rightness is evident...

Thats also why we can use a large DD as a sniper to unravel tight spills and isolate good targets in the trash via hopping the coil...

...A low to mid sens is helpful..if you are running too hot, you have to raise your coil so high, that its tough to eyeball the exact golfball point on the grass...you are losing too much accuracy to the air as the signal fans out and degrades...

Depending on the location and depth of prevailing targets, a guy has to forget about DEPTH and focus on the rigs set up on "accuracy in the top 5" of the soil"...

Just drive around the Lake someday and we will go out hopping!...
 
Think about the field of a DD coil...in the illustrations, they depict it like a thin rectangle...In field, it actually has a little point right in the very dead center...so the crispest tone and highest signal strength is right there! I suppose its like being a piano tuner, with the Proportional audio on our rigs, the 'crispness' and rightness is evident...

Thats also why we can use a large DD as a sniper to unravel tight spills and isolate good targets in the trash via hopping the coil...

...A low to mid sens is helpful..if you are running too hot, you have to raise your coil so high, that its tough to eyeball the exact golfball point on the grass...you are losing too much accuracy to the air as the signal fans out and degrades...

Depending on the location and depth of prevailing targets, a guy has to forget about DEPTH and focus on the rigs set up on "accuracy in the top 5" of the soil"...

Just drive around the Lake someday and we will go out hopping!...

Good pointers. Starting to make more sense. Thanks.
"around the Lake" is a bit far for me this year. Giving thought to getting around more though. :yes:
 
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