Dupont (Washington) bans metal detecting in public parks

[mudwhale]

You say : "..... Is it me or am I the only one getting sick of being governed to death? ...."


But ask yourself : Why ARE you being "governed to death" ? It is not the government WANTING to "govern you". IT WAS/IS WE OURSELVES BEGGING TO BE GOVERNED ! Don't you get it ? So don't wag your finger at the bureaucrats who consider implementing new rules. WAG YOUR FINGER AT US MD'RS WHO MAKE OURSELVES A GIANT BULLSEYE. Swatting hornets nests essentially saying : "Yoohooo, please come invent a law to address my pressing issue". So as you see, it's not the G-men's fault. IT'S OUR FAULTS !


You say : ".... These "Hysterical Societies" are typically a bunch of do nothing mamby pamby ......"


I disagree with you here ^ ^ Most museums and historical societies and archies do good. And they can be good places for us md'rs to gather clues on locations. So long as you stay under the radar for your *true intentions*. Because as said : Some of them have purist-archie types on their boards of directors, or the curator, etc....


You say : "....Are these people actually out looking for historical anything? NO, they are not and never have! ...."


Welcome to the disconnect between the private sector digger/collectors (us) and the purist archie mindset : This is nothing new to the friction that exists. Ok, fine , then : The less they think of you and me : THE BETTER ! So now that you couch their "leave it in the ground" attitude, then don't you see that it is NOT wise for us md'rs to show up at their doorsteps (as in Jimthers' link) asking : "Hi, where's cool historic places to dig ?" THAT'S EXACTLY THE POINT ! You and I need to be a little more frickin discreet ! Because sure : This purist archie mindset might exist in whatever-museum you just waltzed into.


You say : "....I think Legislation should be passed ...."


NO ! Don't you get it ?? THIS IS JUST THE POINT !! You and I SHOULD NOT BE "seeking legislation" to get "red carpets rolled out for us". THAT'S WHAT'S CAUSING THIS CR*P IN THE FIRST PLACE !! So It's EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE of what you are saying : The best way is the : LESS they think of us, the better. Not the "more" they think of us. You do NOT need or want legislation giving "express allowances". If it's silent on the subject, then .... just stay under the radar, go at lower traffic times, and avoid such kill-joy karens. IT'S NOT OUR JOB to please every last person on earth !

Tom
I was just waiting for your Pounce on my Baited hook!
I almost deleted it because you took too long!
You just can't make all this stuff up!
Bravo Tom!!

 

[KOB]

Kob, You hunt state beaches down there in southern CA, right ? Perhaps a smattering of city or county beaches too there, eh ? Ok, I bet if you tell me the names of the various beache you hunt, and give me a week, I bet that I can single handedly get all your beaches shut down to md'ing.


All I need to do is keep calling the powers-that-be, who oversee your particular beaches, and ask the "right questions". I will be sure to pepper the question with ample usage words like "dig" and "take" and "holes" and "cultural heritage" and "remove" and "treasure" and "Indian bones".


And I'll bet that I can eventually find someone to tell me "no". Then I gather a bunch of md'rs, to join me in solidarity, to fight the "no" I just received. So that it will have to go before their legislative judicial review for "clarification", blah blah . I'll suggest permits, express allowances, etc... (won't that be wonderful ?) And presto, we can get a link , just like Jimthers' link, for the beaches you hunt.


But hey, you and I can't be too safe, can we ? So how can you blame me for asking ? I mean, shucks, you don't want to be breaking any laws, now do you Kob ?? The fact that you've been getting away with it for so long, only means you didn't ask the right people the right questions. Shame on you, eh ?

Shut down our So.Cal youtube beaches Tom ? I'd love it. I can even help ! They already did that during covid once before. And it was great !!!

 

[Rock Jock]

"The unanimous city council vote comes after the Historical Society raised the alarm about disturbance of historic artifacts."
Historical society types do their digging in libraries and archives. Metal detectorists have frequently donated relic and such findings to historical societies' museums when they they felt that they public would benefit from seeing the findings. With that sort of attitude, guess what WON'T be getting any more findings for their museums. Either they will stay in the ground until someone trips over them in a work project and not be found for lack of access by metal detectorists or the metal detectorists will simply mentally tell them to eff off and only share the info with their bunkies or not at all to stay low profile and protect their glory hole. Loose lips sink ships. Sad but true, and bulldozers can really screw up good relics and artifacts!

 

[RobNC]

Well I guess the squirrels will be imprisoned if they dig in the ground... This historical society I bet will not mind if a crew comes and bulldozes something or cuts out trenches for "infrastructure" and "economic development" purposes. Typical hypocrites full of control and power-mongering ways trying to disguise it as "preserving history" or whatever else sounds great at the time. You best believe they will still allow their cronies and good ole boy friends to metal detect without any consequences!
This sort of filthy little group is a good example of what is wrong with the world today. They get a little title and group together and go completely off the deep end with power mongering ways. Hey here's an idea, why don't you preserve history by actually doing something RIGHT for a change that may help someone else other than yourself?
Oh wait, that would require them seeing beyond their own noses and the arrogance within themselves. But it's ok because they are smarter than all of us combined- it's a sickness these kinds of people have. And there is no help for them. The best we can do is stay far away from these toxic hatemongers.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

"The unanimous city council vote comes after the Historical Society raised the alarm about disturbance of historic artifacts."
Historical society types do their digging in libraries and archives. Metal detectorists have frequently donated relic and such findings to historical societies' museums when they they felt that they public would benefit from seeing the findings. With that sort of attitude, guess what WON'T be getting any more findings for their museums. Either they will stay in the ground until someone trips over them in a work project and not be found for lack of access by metal detectorists or the metal detectorists will simply mentally tell them to eff off and only share the info with their bunkies or not at all to stay low profile and protect their glory hole. Loose lips sink ships. Sad but true, and bulldozers can really screw up good relics and artifacts!

As a docent in a few museums, and thus rubs shoulders with their archaeologists, let me give you some sobering news about the above lament/threat :


THEY DON'T CARE ! Museums already have *SO MUCH*, that never gets out on display already, that they are NOT seeking new donations. There is only so much display space they have. And only so much staff time. So they can not keep endlessly rearranging the show room display cabinets, each time someone waltzes in with new donations.

But in order not to be "rude", a lot of museums smile, say "ok", and accept donations. Eg.: "Grandmas' sewing machine that she used to stitch on WWII soldier patches, blah blah ". Which end up in basements, never to see the light of day again.

And trust me : The song & dance we md'rs sing to archies, about objects rotting forever in the ground WILL FALL ON DEAF EARS ! Because they can say something cute like : "How do you know that some future archie 1000 yrs. from now, might not have dug a 5x5 pit on that exact spot ?? And now *you*, by having removed that buffalo nickel, will have deprived future generations from learning about their past ! " (oh boohoo, right ?)


For example : In Egypt, at the pyramids of Egypt, archies learn a lot of things by digging in the worker-bee villages that were MILES UPSTREAM . Seemingly no connection to the far away off-limits pyramids, and thus should be 'no harm', eh ? But on the contrary : Archaeologists digging today find a wealth of cool information. So if someone, 1000 yrs. ago, had had your attitude, then we'd have been deprived, today, of this wealth of info. So as you can see, you have to understand the definition of "purist". You will indeed loose that debate.


So trust me bro : Your neener neener threats to museums and archies will fall on deaf ears. In fact, to even suggest such things to them, WILL ONLY PUT YOU AND ME MORE ON THEIR RADAR ! THE VERY THING WE DON'T WANT ! The very thing that is causing these rules and laws, IN THE FIRST PLACE

 

[chillforlife]

I was shocked to see that Tom had posted on this topic. Just shocked.

 

[FLOOD]

If anyone gives me a hard time about “digging holes” in the ground, I tell them I make less of a disturbance than a squirrel. I neatly fill my holes. I also provide a public service every time I visit a location because I pick up small garbage and trash as I walk. I also remove broken glass and other sharp objects that could injure a child or someone in bare feet. I have told people to look around them at the dog mess, bottle caps, pull tabs, gum wrappers, capers and other trash that litters the grounds, and the fact that most municipalities have ordnances on the books about littering and cleaning up after their dogs. So why bother me, when I’m not doing anything “wrong” and in fact helping keep a place clean, while other people clearly are violating municipal codes and no one seems to care about that…I’ve only had to say this a couple times but it’s the reality of want responsible MD’s do and experience just about every day they go out.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

........They get a little title and group together and go completely off the deep end with power mongering ways. ...........

No. It's not them and their "power mongering ways". It's we md'rs and our "grovelling as if we need their say so". WE (not them) are the ones that invited their princely say so, and power. It's our own faults , not theirs. If the people in Jimthers' link hadn't gone swatting hornet's nests, inviting purist archies wonderful inputs on our hobby, then : None of this would be happening.

Thus no, I do not fault those with the "... title who group together....". They're just doing their job of "answering questions". Ie.: Pressing matters, put before them, where we've begged for "pressing answers".

I bet you that in 99% of the cases of any encroaching laws/rules against us, that any one of those persons in the "title group together" group probably never gave the matter A MOMENT'S THOUGHT ! Until numbskull md'rs went in and begged for their attention, approval, red carpets to be rolled out, etc.... So it is OUR OWN FAULT RobNC. Not theirs.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

I was shocked to see that Tom had posted on this topic. Just shocked.

But hey : If it wasn't for control freaks like us, nothing would get done right in the world, eh ?

But seriously now : Yes this is a bee in my bonnet. I started this hobby as a teen in the mid 1970s . Then was club officer and eventual club prez in the 1980s /90s when our city used to have a club. So I saw the entire evolution of all of this . From 1979's version of ARPA, to the present. And one day, after seeing this phenomenon psychology , on the micro-scale in our individual city, I began to ask myself if this wasn't the very thing at play on the larger macro scale. And sure enough, when you study each of these "dire stories", they are invariably always the same psychology going on We are our own worst enemies !

 

[Tom_in_CA]

If anyone gives me a hard time about “digging holes” in the ground, I tell them I make less of a disturbance than a squirrel. I neatly fill my holes. I also provide a public service every time I visit a location because I pick up small garbage and trash as I walk. I also remove broken glass and other sharp objects that could injure a child or someone in bare feet. I have told people to look around them at the dog mess, bottle caps, pull tabs, gum wrappers, capers and other trash that litters the grounds, and the fact that most municipalities have ordnances on the books about littering and cleaning up after their dogs. So why bother me, when I’m not doing anything “wrong” and in fact helping keep a place clean, while other people clearly are violating municipal codes and no one seems to care about that…I’ve only had to say this a couple times but it’s the reality of want responsible MD’s do and experience just about every day they go out.

Flood, I do not disagree with you when it comes to defending ourselves from baseless accusations, *IF* we are confronted. Sure. Because you're right that we'll cover, stomp & fluff our spots. Hence we haven't alterED or defacED anything. Now have we ?

But I'm afraid it's going to fall on deaf ears. Because in the mind's eyes of the person who just happen-chanced on you (digging that hole in the nice manicured turf), you have to realize that THE ONLY THING that sticks out in their mind, is that : You were/are digging. So do you really think they are going to care about yours & my's wonderful explanations of squirrels ? And how we'll cover our spot with no trace ? About removing debris ? OF COURSE NOT ! Because the only thing that will be on their mind, is the mental connotation of : "A man with a metal detector digging holes". Everything else you say will be ignored. Can you blame them ?

So I'm afraid that the better tactic (rather than rehearsed lines about squirrels and covering holes) is to simply not be seen by any such nosy parkers IN THE FIRST PLACE ! I mean, sheesk, if you and I are going to do nice manicured turf, wouldn't it make sense to go at lower traffic times , when such lookie-lous are not around ? Eg.: Crack of dawn, etc.... In fact, it's gotten to where I've got some favorite parks in CA (that I hit when travelling through on trips to those areas), that I only hunt at night. So peaceful. So serene.


NOT because there's any rule that said "no md'ing". But ONLY because I'm painfully aware of the connotations that a "man with a metal detector" evokes. You're simply not going to convert every last person on earth. Now some people might call this "sneaking around". Ok, fine then : SNEAK AROUND. I mean, it's like nose-picking : Not illegal, nor do you "need permission". But for pete sakes you use a little discretion of timing, so as not to offend the squemish. Right ?

 

[60streeter]

The link below is from a Google Alert I have set up for "treasure" + "found"

The main guy speaking in the video at the beginning of the story is Gordon Karg, City Attorney.

https://www.thenewstribune.com/news/local/article287992785.html

Lucky for us we are completely free... now more than ever... right?

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Lucky for us we are completely free... now more than ever... right?

I am free. I don't lack places to hunt. I've got a list, as long as my arm, of places that I some day hope to get around to hunt. If I can ever get my b#tt in gear to retire. Doh !

 

[RobNC]

No. It's not them and their "power mongering ways". It's we md'rs and our "grovelling as if we need their say so". WE (not them) are the ones that invited their princely say so, and power. It's our own faults , not theirs. If the people in Jimthers' link hadn't gone swatting hornet's nests, inviting purist archies wonderful inputs on our hobby, then : None of this would be happening.

Thus no, I do not fault those with the "... title who group together....". They're just doing their job of "answering questions". Ie.: Pressing matters, put before them, where we've begged for "pressing answers".

I bet you that in 99% of the cases of any encroaching laws/rules against us, that any one of those persons in the "title group together" group probably never gave the matter A MOMENT'S THOUGHT ! Until numbskull md'rs went in and begged for their attention, approval, red carpets to be rolled out, etc.... So it is OUR OWN FAULT RobNC. Not theirs.

I agree with you 100%. That's why I don't even speak with those types. I've never seen them do any good but serve themselves.
All this brings to mind a doctor I used to work with. He always said "It's better to ask for forgiveness after the fact than ask permission before". Of course he was talking about something totally different, the county's money and his purchasing decisions.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

.... I've never seen them do any good but serve themselves....

Again, this ^ ^ seems to imply it's their fault. But notice that, in this case (of Jimthers' link, for example), we asked THEM to serve US ! So again, they're only doing their job. They're not "serving themselves". They're serving US. Because, shucks, we went wearing neon orange shouting : " YOOHOO YOOHOO, what do you think of us ??" And "What do you think of me and my actions ?"

Remember : MD'ing does (I admit) carry connotations. Eg.: that you & I might be about to "dig". Or leave a hole. Or that you might be about to "take or remove" something. Or "get rich". Or that you might bother an Indian bone. Ok, guilty as charged But the solution to all these admitted connotations is NOT to run around trying to convince the world that these connotations don't hold merit. Or to run around thinking "this museum worker probably thinks my hobby is going to benefit them, is wonderful, etc..." As if you're going to convert everyone. I WISH THAT WERE TRUE. I sincerely want red carpets rolled out for me, don't you ? But I've long since learned that this isn't possible.

So the solution is not to find persons to serve me. And The solution is not to convince museums and purist archies that we're wonderful. The solution is to stay off their radar. Because the odds are, that a purist archie was NEVER GOING TO HAVE SEEN YOU in the park or forest or beach or whatever. Ok, fine then , why not leave good enough alone ? I've seen SO MANY RULES/LAWS against us where, when you trace it back to the origin, it was NEVER that some purist archie museum worker (like in Jimthers' link) happen-chanced on to someone , and thought "Oh me oh my, let's make a law". Instead it was md'rs thinking they needed to form alliances, permissions, express say-so's, olive branches, etc...... Let's wake and realize that ..... we're never going to remove the connotations.

 

[FLOOD]

Flood, I do not disagree with you when it comes to defending ourselves from baseless accusations, *IF* we are confronted. Sure. Because you're right that we'll cover, stomp & fluff our spots. Hence we haven't alterED or defacED anything. Now have we ?

But I'm afraid it's going to fall on deaf ears. Because in the mind's eyes of the person who just happen-chanced on you (digging that hole in the nice manicured turf), you have to realize that THE ONLY THING that sticks out in their mind, is that : You were/are digging. So do you really think they are going to care about yours & my's wonderful explanations of squirrels ? And how we'll cover our spot with no trace ? About removing debris ? OF COURSE NOT ! Because the only thing that will be on their mind, is the mental connotation of : "A man with a metal detector digging holes". Everything else you say will be ignored. Can you blame them ?

So I'm afraid that the better tactic (rather than rehearsed lines about squirrels and covering holes) is to simply not be seen by any such nosy parkers IN THE FIRST PLACE ! I mean, sheesk, if you and I are going to do nice manicured turf, wouldn't it make sense to go at lower traffic times , when such lookie-lous are not around ? Eg.: Crack of dawn, etc.... In fact, it's gotten to where I've got some favorite parks in CA (that I hit when travelling through on trips to those areas), that I only hunt at night. So peaceful. So serene.


NOT because there's any rule that said "no md'ing". But ONLY because I'm painfully aware of the connotations that a "man with a metal detector" evokes. You're simply not going to convert every last person on earth. Now some people might call this "sneaking around". Ok, fine then : SNEAK AROUND. I mean, it's like nose-picking : Not illegal, nor do you "need permission". But for pete sakes you use a little discretion of timing, so as not to offend the squemish. Right ?

Agree with you 100%. There are places I visit I only go on weekends at certain times and other places, only on weekdays certain times because I know there will be fewer people there, and less chance of the dumb encounters. Timing has become an important aspect of the hobby due to the way some people react to us.

 

[Rock Jock]

Ahhh! The joy of being addicted to an extractive, politically incorrect hobby! We aren't the only pariah hobbyists that must skulk about for our interests. Arguably, these include rock hounds, fossil hunters, shooters, hunters, fishermen, gold panners, etc., perhaps even martial artists! Much of the problem is that so many people are accustomed to knee jerk seeking approval from authority figures that are frequently and successfully exceeding their authority in so many ways via government branches/bureaucrats abusing the simple terms of the national and state constitutions. The old saw says "Run it up the flag pole and let's see who salutes!" It takes considerable resources and organization to challenge this sort of thing. Even then, you may come away with only half a loaf.
From Wikipedia:
"The Tenth Amendment (Amendment X) to the United States Constitution, a part of the Bill of Rights, was ratified on December 15, 1791. It expresses the principle of federalism, also known as states' rights, by stating that the federal government has only those powers delegated to it by the Constitution, and that all other powers not forbidden to the states by the Constitution are reserved to each state, or to the people"

This may be the must ignored Amendment to the US Constitution among the otherwise largely ignored Bill of Rights of that constitution. One other thing - government agencies love to write policy and procedure rules and regulations with some ambiguity. They like wiggle room. I suppose I'm whining.
Rant mode off!

 

[Drew61]

Gee, I’d think anywhere close to Seattle would want detecting at least for needle cleanup.

 

[BeardedRelicHunter]

Gee, I’d think anywhere close to Seattle would want detecting at least for needle cleanup.

nah the powers that be would rather have unsuspecting tax payers or their children get stuck and end up with HIV ...they all own stocks in big Pharma so they make $$$$ ......


I know Tom can be a bit much most of the time for people and I haven't seen eye to eye with him on things but I can agree Stop asking permission ....If you happen to find on the interweb parks that require permits then either get them as i have at one in Pennsylvania so I don't have to worry about losing my 800$ detector forever or if not but nothing saying no md'ing then don't ask . Other parks in another county i've detected for months with nobody saying anything.. couldn't find anything in a search .... I've taken a new stance .....i keep me headphones on and walk away from everyone like i don't see or hear them , mumble to myself like a rainman and they walk away thinking i'm loony ....I go md'ing when my time allows with work so as far as going at less traffic times i say hogwash ....i'm thinking karens and kens need to learn to mind their own business actually too would help our hobby

 

[Tpmetal]

Damn grave robbers ruining all of our fun.